CSHFLW

You guys are talking about HP and suspension matching that of the M3....thats not what I'm talking about....Kinda like saying that lexus is going to beef up the IS300 to compete with the ferrari 550....I don't care what you put in a IS300, 1000hp or what ever....it's not a M3.....just like a 700hp Honda civic with leather is not an M3....

RacingAristo

Me neither. L-tuned sounds weak. I prefer TRD or LRD (eh.... doesn't really sound good).

RacingAristo

IS300 does look like a honda from the outside. Perhaps Lexus or Toyota could give it a face lift? A new bodykit maybe?

CSHFLW

The IS300 looks like a kids car.....thats why I bought a BMW instead of a IS300....plus I like the BMW history and german engineering.....I wanted to get out of Hondas and the IS300 is just a really nice accord

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

so more horse power better handling etc. etc. doesn't make a better car? Even better quality car better reliability doesn't? So what's so good about the M3 that a BEEFed up IS300 can't match? Brand? Hope you're not just another BMW owner full of ego.

If there isn't a reason, then M3 can go down the drain afterall.


And yes beefed up IS300 whipping a Ferrari 550. That would be interesting. With 4 doors too!

retrodrive

As someone has mentioned above, the whole thing is just a brand name war. I mean BMW has been there for a very long time now and it would be very hard for an IS to get the reputation that M3 has. Of course, it could be faster and more reliable and pretty much beat M3 in almost every category. However, it would take time for the car to get perfect (maybe a couple of generations) and get the rep it deserves.

As far as 700hp Civic with leather goes, I would rather have that then the M3. Just for the fact that its a sleeper and it beat porshes all day long.

Ima no BMW fan, but I give props when they are due.

///MDex

I don't think the IS WANTS to be an M3 - I think its intended to be the car to BEAT the M3.

JMHO

LexusPride

I admit the IS300 doesn't command the same market that the 3-series does, one reason being that it's looks appeal to an 18-year old male. The other being that the 3-series comes in 2 engine models (325 & 330), and coupe, sedan and convertible. You can't really compare history as one has 100 years behind it, the other 11, but in those 11 short years Lexus has caused alot of problems and about-face for both BMW and MB. To me, a BMW isn't worth keeping over it's base warranty as it's reliability record will cost you dearly soon after. The new M3 is fun to drive if you get the chance, but leaves a bitter taste in my mouth knowing that dealers gladly acknowledge to inflating the price another $20-30k. So your 3 year BMW ownership experience comes down to: horrible customer service and a fairly reliable vehicle. After that, run and don't look back

BLiu

Uh...A 0-60mph time of 7.1s for a supercharged IS300 isn't exactly what I call "storming" or "M3-beater".

I would like to see Toyota produce a NA 6-cylinder motor that can output 343HP rather than slapping on a turbo or an SC...I think that's the easy way out IMHO...Well, at least we might be able to get aftermarket parts for our current GS's I hope...

PS I have a BMW and the service is great. You get all kinds - we have lousy Lexus dealers too right?

Brent

BLiu

Globe,

Performance-wise the IS 300 could have better numbers. However, the M3 has got a lot of tradition and engineering built into the car. You should drive one and you will see the difference.

In all fairness, stereotypes of how BMW's will be pieces of junk down the line is not true. The engines are built as solid as any Toyota motor. The biggest problems that BMW's run into are electronics-related. They are good cars - expensive, but good.

Brent

///MDex

Agreed Brent. My service was great at my dealership when I had my 323Ci, just that, is was so often for one thing or another....

RON430

BLiu - I agree about the storming bit but I just entered the article verbatim. Might be the British slant but 7.1 doesn't do it for me either.

Without trying to flame anyone, I wouldn't get all wound up in the tag lines put on by the authors. I doubt that Lexus will produce a car that will better the bimmer. I doubt bimmer will produce a car that betters a Lexus. If they go ahead with this I expect they will produce a series of vehicles that will 1) have comparable performance to the M, AMG, R type 2) they will likely be priced considerably under the other types and 3) they will actually be even more livable on a day to day basis. The M3 seems to get the nod (along with the M5) for being a remarkable blend of performance and day to day livability. My guess is that Lexus will surpass them in that regard but the cars will be different. I think that the basics are there in the IS to make a far more sporting car than right now but my real hope is that whoever works on the GS gets to push performance further up the priority list than is the current result. The GS also has all the right basics but is biased too far away from the performance side. Haven't seen all that many R type Jaguars but there probably more M3s running around the bay area than normal 3s and AMGs are not that hard to see. M5s are still a little on the rare side. If I look at what some people have done to their GSs here it is no doubt that something around 400hp with tighter handling would sell and ultimately be more economical than the aftermarket route. Once again, I don't really figure the Lexus will be exactly comparable to the M's. They will likely always have more comfort and isolation than the bimmers. They won't be quite as exclusive but will be less expensive to purchase and have great reliability. Toyota hasn't been first to the party in almost anything but when they do get into it they are almost instantly a force to be reckoned with. I am very intrigued by this article and I hope it is correct, once again the domestic auto press seems to have nothing to report on this - arrogant airheads, and I hope they do go ahead with it across the range LS and LX included. As a consumer, competition just gives us more choices and ultimately better product at a better price.

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

I agree. I don't think BMWs are piece of junks at all. They're great cars but not great cars for the money. That's how I ended up with a Lexus. That's how you ended up with a Lexus too.

um, isn't 7.1 sec. the STOCK IS300 number? Supercharged one should be much lower. And that's only stage 1.

Well yah M3 has TRADITION but I don't think Tradition makes a car great. Ford has been around for what, 100+ years? and they're still building twisted metals.

And Japanese people are more interested in turbos I guess. More efficient than using displacement. Yah M3 is very impressive with the 3+ liter inline 6 producing 300+ hp, but hey if turbo can do it easily, what's the point of insisting on high-revving N/A engines?

GS4Will

Ron,


thanks for sharing the great articles with us

if the M3 is sold at ~$45-50K, and the M5 at ~$60-65k, with 50% reduction in electrical problems, i would consider them. just cannot justify the so-called "dealer mark-ups".
but if either the IS, or GS has performance #s in every aspect that are close to the Ms, my choice would be difficult.


william

RON430

GlobeCLK - I was thinking about the 0-60 number and their comments on IS engines and, I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure that in Europe they don't get the IS300. I think they get the IS200. Maybe the 7.1 sec. time is good when compared to a stock IS200, just don't know but maybe it explains it.

William - I am probably as tired as anyone talking about bimmers but I decided to go to CarsDirect and look at M3 and M5 pricing. Surprisingly, they had prices for both although both are sold out. The M5 list is 70,045 but the price to order it is 85,045. The M3 goes at list. Of course no one in an M3 cares about luxury but I thought a fair price was with a CD player, Moonroof and Xenon headlights which a Lexus model would probably come with. The M3 priced at 50,520 and you could order it for that. Obviously, no tax or license. So very roughly here in NoCal an M3 costs you about $56K to put in your garage while an M5 is nearer $94K, rough estimates and assuming you don't lease. I think that gives Lexus a fair amount of room. Super IS might not do as much damage to M3 sales as a Super GS would do to the M5 but then the big drop would be the dealers would have to let the M5s go for list, poor babies. I may be naive but I figure whatever premium would go on the Super IS and GS would be short lived and they should be in enough supply to eventually go at or below sticker. Didn't look at AMG or R type prices, we all know bimmer is the target. Really hope this comes to pass and world wide economics or political realities don't shelve it. Whether you want an M or a Super Lexus, the entry of Lexus to that market would force prices down and give more choice, hard to lose.