Chenzo26

Let me preface this by saying I have done 10+ hours of searching past threads. I have an idea as to what is wrong, but there is no thread on inner tie rod issues (that I found), I could be 100% sure. I have a few different symptoms that seem to be caused by one underlying problem, and I just want to be sure before I start draining by bank account yet again. The car is a '99 GS400 Here are the symptoms:
- Shifty driving on the highway. The car seems to track from side to side while driving at high speeds.
- Bump steer. When going over any type of bump (speed bump, rough road, or any rough terrain) my steering wheel has a mind of its own.
- "Ghost steer" (for lack of a better term) - When slowing down to a stop, sometimes the steering wheel will start to turn itself - sometimes left, sometimes right -and the car follows.
- Steering vibration. Not the normal constant vibration that many other members have, but when I steer slightly from side to side while still maintaining a straight path, I feel a vibration/shudder in the steering wheel. This happens at low speeds and does not happen when I am steering through an actual turn, just when slightly steering back and forth from left to right while driving straight.

So far, I have changed out my outer tie rods, lower ball joints, brakes and pads (not that those have anything to do with it) and I have checked my steering rack bushings to check for wear. The steering rack doesnt budge, but I have ordered the bushings anyway, but I doubt that is the problem. I have gotten 3 alignments in the past 2 months, and after the first one, the alignment was never really off. I have balanced my tires and have no vibration from the wheels. When I am actually steering the car, the steering works like it should, but the shimmying/tracking/shiftiness, whatever you want to call it, bugs the hell out of me, not only because its probably not very safe, but also because I have to constantly correct my steering wheel, slightly, on the high way. I am leaning towards the inner tie rods being the culprit, but I want to be somewhat sure before purchasing the parts. I also would like to know if there are any other possible explanations for these types of problems. I have been driving around on the new outer tie rods and lower ball joints for roughly a month and a half, and for the first 2 weeks, everything was excellent. After the second week, these symptoms started to manifest and the problems have gotten progressively worse in these short periods of time. And yes, before anyone posts this as a solution, I have torqued EVERYTHING to spec, so that is not the problem. Any help is appreciated.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Now I'm leaning towards the caster arm bushings. Those, like many other GS, are probably done for. I'm going to replace mine real soon. No matter how many alignments you get, if your caster arm bushing is gone, your spec will be off from the moment you drive.

Have a shop check all your bushings (control arm and caster)

Chenzo26

Thanks GSteg, I know we were going back and forth about it late last week. Do you know of any pictures that show where the bushings are located? Also, what are the chances that it is the inner tie rods. I noticed that they have a ball joint incorporated into them and if they have horizontal play in them, they might cause some of that shiftiness. Does anyone know what the symptoms of worn inner tie rods are?

Evil Twin

I too am having a difficult time getting the suspension sorted out on my 2000 GS400 with 90k. I have replaced the lower ball joints, struts, brake pads, and #2 lower control arms. I ordered but didn't install the outer tie rods, there was nothing I could find wrong with them.
I have been trying to do only one change at a time to figure out what each effects.
So far the the lower ball joints have had no effect, in fact the new ones I installed were "looser" feeling than the ones already in the car before I installed them. I only replaced them because of the horror stories I have read here.
The struts were badly worn and cured the porpoising front to rear, and the sway side to side. I don't feel sea sick any more after a drive. That's a very good thing.
Replacing the brake pads helped with a slight side to side pull upon braking but the last few feet of a stop are now acompanied by a scraping grinding sound. WTF?
The only improvement has come with the replacement of the #2 lower control arms. Even that has been a marginal improvement. I still have vibration of the car and side to side movement of the steering wheel. But it has been reduced by about 70 percent.
I am suprised that your symptoms are getting worse. All of my changes have not degraded with time (few months) like your car is doing. But they have brought to my attention how bad the rear end of the car is and how much that is contributing to the poor ride and handling overall. Most of the problems I am still having are now shifting to the rear end of the car.
The only thing I can add is that I would suggest you replace the lower control arm #2 and to check the lash on the steering rack. You didn't state your mileage but a 99 has to be close to what I have. My lower control arm bushing were so worn out that there were rips in it. It also got rid of a creaking-clunking sound coming from the right front.
I have the Daizen control arm bushings, sway bar bushings, and steering rack bushings on order and when the come in and I find time to install them I will report back on the differences. I also will install the outer tie rods when I have everything apart. Then its time to work on the mess in the back.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Usually the Caster arm bushings are the problem for most people. The design on our car is horrible. If anything, get the caster arm replace first and if it fixes all your problems, just leave it and keep the other bushings until you really need to replace them.

DJ TANTRA

I think..the swaying motion...

or ghost steering might be your rear conrol arm bushings...

you can have the mechanic check and see if they need to be repaired..

Is it worse on areas that have poor roads??
or like on metal grate bridges?


Check your rear control arm bushings/

One peice of bad news I'll tell you in advance though...if it is those bushings..u need ot buy the whole control arm cuz lexus doesnt sell jus the bushings :-(

check it out..keep us updated!!

kit cat

iTrader: (6)

Chenzo26>
I have the exact same problem, and exact same situation as you (except mine's slammed on coilovers). I changed my outer tie rods, lower ball joints, wheels balanced multiple times, aligned once too many, and I came to the conclusion that it has to be the caster arm. Look at your caster arm bushing, if its like mine, its shot. And if that's shot no matter how many times we align our cars, that thing would move.

...I guess I just quoted GSteg It's been bothering me too but labor for putting bushing is so expensive...I don't think its a DIY job.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

It's definitely not a DIY job, at least not a quick and easy one. It can be done at home, but I highly doubt anyone want to spend hours and hours fiddling with it.

I'm fortunate enough to have access to a shop that I can use their to do my bushings. I'm going to change them out soon.

tmf2004

iTrader: (15)

[QUOTE=GSteg;2887949]It's definitely not a DIY job, at least not a quick and easy one. It can be done at home, but I highly doubt anyone want to spend hours and hours fiddling with it.

I'm fortunate enough to have access to a shop that I can use their to do my bushings. I'm going to change them out soon. [/QUO

Henry are you buying the Daizens bushings or Lexus OEM?

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

I'm going with the daizen bushings. The OEM rubber design is poor at best. It wont last that long anyways, plus it'll cost me a grip for brand new OEM caster arms.

I'm only going to change the caster. The rest of the bushings will stay since they're still good, and I dont want to keep my ride quality as smooth as possible.

Chenzo26

The "ghost steering" gets worse on roads that are scored, so it feels like the tires will follow these lines instead of staying straight. This problem does not get much worse on poor roads, but what does get worse on poor roads is the bump steer. I recently had to drive off the road in the grass/gravel and my steering wheel went crazy every time I hit a rock or bump. Also, when you say rear control arm, do you mean lower control arm/caster arm. It seems everyone is saying that the bushings in that thing are probably to blame. What about inner tie rods. I noticed from the electronic maintenance book, they seem to have the same ball socket as the ball joints and the outer tie rods. If those have horizontal play, could that cause similar problems? If not, what are the symptoms of bad inner tie rods.

pardo

iTrader: (2)

I had similar ghost steering problems you having, my car at approximately 95k
I installed daizen power steering bushings and daizen LCA bushings, and the problems are mitigated. Not completely fixed but the feel is a lot better...

DJ TANTRA

I was referring to the rear control arms..the lower one.

As far as the tie rod ends...My right tie rod end needed to be replaced..I was able to tell this because one of them was leaking oil..

If you get it up on a lift...a mechanic can easily tell if they need to be replaced..


IT IS VERYYYY EASY to replace them..a definitely DIY...it took my mechanic 5minutes.

The Tie rod end itself I think cost about 70 a peice...if you want I can give u the link from where I got mine!

Keep us updated Bud.

Chenzo26

My tie rod ends are fine since I just replaced them, but I was wondering about the inner tie rods. Anyway, I had a mechanic check everything out, and they said the suspension is tight as hell, so they are thinking it is either the pump or the rack itself. I am waiting on steering rack bushings, control arm bushings, and sway bar bushings. Hopefully these will help the problem, but I am not sure of anything now. One other update, when my car was up on the alignment rack this weekend, they could not get the caster back into spec. They put it on the rack a few times, and every time the caster was different, so this makes me think everyone that said the caster arm bushings are going bad may have been right.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Have you been able to check the steering rack bushings? On the SC and even the early LS the steering rack busing would go bad just like all the other bushings. This would cause the entire steering rack to shift causing irratic steering, vibration, bump steer and what not. It may not be your problem, but woth checking out.