What makes the Lexus a Sports Sedan is partly marketing, but its also its 4 wheel disc brakes, an independent suspension, and a nice transmission that is designed for engine braking.

Also, I would like to think Lexus tried to tune it to be a little "sport" in it.
I took it through some turns yesterday, i think you guys are being a little hard on it, its seems to have precise steering, predictable handling, and remains cushy while being pushed. I did not experience horrendous body roll. I use a loose definition of a "Sports sedan", basically all the German sedans i would consider in this category, including the Mercedes S-class.

My Definition: Sports Sedan - A sedan you can take on a 2 hour drive through the country, shave the time down to 1 hour, and both you and the passenger enjoy it.

Anyways, once i get my ball-joints replaced I will push it a little harder

 

no flames here, i agree 100%

 

as stated before car does not communicate well to the driver , knda disconnected feel as compared to true sports sedans from the europeans

as stated before i have tuned the susp as best i could with all avail parts and still did not 100% satisfy me it handled well but not well enough to keep me

 

Hey for those of you BMW guys out there. Has a 2JZ-GTE ever been stuffed into a E46 M3? I know it has been done for a E36, but I've never heard it being done on a E46. Reason I'm asking is that I'm about to pick up another project car. There's an E46 M3 for sale that has a blown motor(and out of the warranty period) for pretty cheap. I'd assume that the 2JZ weighs close to the s54(m3 motor) since they both use iron blocks and aluminum heads.

The 2JZ is much much cheaper than a s54 motorset by almost 4-5 times. 2JZ can be had for $1500 and the s54 costs close to 7g or so. I also plan to take the motor up to the 700-800hp range and I know the 2JZ can handle that reliably. Most of the interior is gonna be gutted out as well to shave down the weight. Just gonna be a shifter, steering wheel, and 2 seats in the car. Comfort is not on the list because this will be my weekend race car My other plan was to get a Lotus and boost it.

Here's the dilemma I can get the M3 for so cheap that after all the mods and upgrades it will cost close to what a used Elise would run me before boosting the Lotus. What would you guys do?

 

You are taking the M3 out of an M3. The S54 in the M3 revs to 8 grand, and is a perfect match for the manual and smg trannys. Not exactly sure why you would go through all the work to make custom motor/tranny mounts for it though. Get an 03 E46 M3 and call it a day.

 

Well the one I'm looking at is selling for $12k it's considered totalled since the engine costs so much to replace. BMW wants close to $20k just to replace the engine. The body is still in pretty good condition. I plan to drop in a full race built 2JZ that revs to about 8000-8500rpm or so with a big single turbo on it to help boost the power output to about 700-800hp. A used 2JZ motor can be bought for about $1500-2000 and $5000-6000 into parts for a full race rebuild. Then another $4-5k for a new transmission. I do all the fab work myself so not really any cost there besides my time.

Yeah I could just get a used working M3 with a stock motor for close to the same cost as me dropping a race prepped 800hp 2JZ into the M3. However, I think the 2JZ option would be much more fun. I know the BMW guys are gonna be hating this due to the blasphemy of putting a Toyota motor in a BMW. I like the BMW chassis, but I like the Toyota motor better simply due to the cost/performance ratio you can get out of it To get that power level out of the S54 motor will be insanely expensive.

 

just before i posted that comment, a new Z (whatever number they are now) could not take me on turns. It could have been the the driver, but i don't know. i have driven a few BMWs, never an M type, but i am not all that impressed. Yes our cars don't handle as good in stock form, but once i did a few upgrades on the suspention the car hadles better and corners better too.

lets compare apples to apples, M3 is not a GS or even close to a GS for that matter.

the GS is capable of handeling very well after some mods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ICkh...elated&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD0gv4wJSMg


The First GS/Aristo Sport Sedan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vF_g...elated&search=

 

jeff i don't have a problem with the blasphemy myself, but i think you'll find the fabrication will be so extensive that it won't be a fun project.

i always find it a bit odd when people talk about modding the suspension of their GS to "make it handle better than a BMW", there is large variety of suspension mods available for BMWs as well and they too can be made to handle much better than stock. and there's no mod to compensate for a better balanced chassis.

i used to have an E36 M3 and i have yet to find a modded GS that handles anywhere near as well as that car did in stock form. the lexus is cheaper to maintain though...

 

I agree, which is why I have stopped modding my car. In fact, I reverted my car back to 90% stock because no matter what I did to the GS, the chassis isn't that great. There is no argument about this. You can make it handle better (like with most cars), but it comes to the point when you can have all the suspension mods in the world, but your weak-link will be the chassis, and that you cannot change.

It really sucks because the GS could have been the perfect car. It's got power, luxury, reliability, etc. Except it's just not a driver's car.

I've also noticed that most BMW cars have very small wheel gaps. They seem to sit lower than most other luxury cars. When they lower their car, they dont change their ride height too much. With the GS, we will drop inches lower than stock (just to get the same gap as a stock BMW), and that will GREATLY affect suspension geometry. Design a great chassis from the factory and you can make a monster out of it. Having a not-so-good platform makes the task A LOT harder.

 

Thankya ...

 

Well seeing I've hung with and beat or lost (but held my own) against M3's, I find that comment pretty got damn funny. Especially talking to them afterwards and comparing notes.

The GS is designed for sport. Its not the greatest sport sedan at all but the picture you paint is just RIDICULOUS.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._lexus_gs_400/

A gourmet blend of sport and luxury worth savoring, the GS 400 has spoiled us over the past year. Logbook entries like "Absolutely one of the best sedans ever built" gush with more loving praise and adoration than Shakespeare's sonnets

10 best list 3 times. It sure as hell doesn't do that by sucking at sport.
http://www.caranddriver.com/search.a...6&article_id=0

Etc etc, Awards galore. It was seen by editiors as driving like a SC 300/400 but it was a sedan. WIth mods, this car is VERY VERY much a sleeper. People think "Lexus" and think boring.

 

We also have to remember times have changed. THe 2GS is literally now 10 years old. We now have active sway bars, electronic brakes, SMG, 8 speed autos, and cars today have every electronic do dad alive.

IN 1998, the GS was the FIRST true Japanese attempt to go "BMW" hunting as Road and Track put it. It didn't handle as well as the 5 but it made up for it with its engine.

Fast forward to 2001 and the IS 300 stock is much sportier than the GS. Acura got sportier. Nissan brought us their Skyline (which has always been sporty) and called it the G35 (on the FM chassis, the sportiest Japanese sedan chassis around).

 

Ed,
One of the issues we face adding all these items is, we mix and match stuff and we don't do R&D to track/test different products at the track etc and then decide what is best.

That is why I am more of a fan of sticking to one company and buying all their products, b/c they did the R&D together on their stuff, to bring a sportier GS.

When we add coils, sways, bars, etc etc, we don't know what to expect until we drive the car hard!

You make a great point about the GS steering, even with the L-tuned ECU, it feels disconnected.

 

Turbo Lotus huh? got pics? what year?

CEO

 

I want to add that maybe, some people don't know how to drive as well as others. Or you may not feel comfortable pushing the car or you may not want to risk racing it b/c you put a lot of money in it.

As for me, having had a GS 400 and 430 and modding both, going to the track and listing tons of kills or deaths in the forums, well my experience is different. Then I've met and raced tons of members here and they will say I know how to drive the snot outta my car.

A lot of it is comfort and the connection you feel with the car. Hell I wrecked a GS!! I know her limits, lol.

I never felt this comfy in the SC 400 for instance, thought it was lower and IMO, handled better stock. The hood was very long and the rear always seemed like it was going to go (I never modded the SC).