Harrier

I would also like to agree with some members here by saying that the SportDesign is a load of crock. 16" wheels are hardly sporting, and everything else is really just aesthetics, minus the tuning, of course. Keep in mind, however, that Lexus usually offers such special editions when they are just about to introduce a new model.

Cases in point: '96 ES gets Coach edition before '97 redesign. '00 GS4 gets Platinum edition before '01 GS430 intro. '01 ES also gets Platinum edition before '02 redesign. '00 LS400 gets Coached before '01 LS430. '02 RX300's SilverSport edition and '02 GS300's SportDesign...

gsintensive

GSpower's points are exactly like mine. I am sure Lexus wouldn't fall behind competition, even now, our GS430 still reigns supreme compared to E430/540i in hp rating. M5/E55 are just a different class and different amount of $$. (like 12~20k difference?) Let along some crazy rumors (like supercharged AMG/500hp M5) they are still in the future, our Lexus is still very up to date at this point.

What is our hurry? Lexus has always been superior in the competition of the same class vehicles, i am sure our beloved GS series would come through well.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

You're right that Lexus does not produce cars like AMG and M. And given how TINY the market is for then, I don't blame them.

An M5 base price + stereo upgrade is $72,545 according to Edmunds. (Good luck getting out the dealer for under $80K.) BMW probably only sells a couple of dozen a month. There sure aren't many on the road! Sure it's a great image car, but if it's so great, why don't they sell more?

An E55 is $74,295 BASE price. Like the M5, MB probably sells VERY FEW of these vehicles. Probably WAY fewer than Porsche sells 911s for example.

The BMW X5 4.6i someone else mentioned has a BASE price of $66,845. At that price they ain't going to sell many. According to Autoweek they're only producing 12 a day (in South Carolina). It's smaller than an RX300 so comparing it to an LX470 is ludicrous. They're completely different vehicles.

What about the IS430 and supercharged LS430 shown recently?



By your standards, everyone is 'behind' Ferrari or Lamborghini for example. But those are NICHE products sold in tiny numbers. Fine if you're a boutique, but not if you're not.

Because there's so many 20-somethings like you waiting to buy one? DREAM ON.

I guess I'm wasting time posting in this thread though...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

You don't speak for everyone. I don't give a $#!+ if Lexus comes out with an M5 killer really since I probably wouldn't buy it anyway - too much money. Sure it will be cheaper used but I don't like used cars and by the time it's more affordable used, then someone will be *****ing about Lexus is behind again when BMW has an M5 with 800HP.

And an M3 killer I couldn't care less about either, it's too small for me.

gsintensive

Bit, you are right there is not many M5 produced, but that why they are special. BMW makes hordes of money with its M class, you can hardly see a M5/3 without mark up price, no other car sells this way. You are lucky that you can get MSRP deal? give me a break man?

With that said, Lexus has very well realized the points of combating high end sporty sedans. The Supercharged IS430/LS430 are great examples. If you gotta start somewhere, I guess the younger generation IS platform would be a good choice.

Though M5 is limited production, but BMW surely makes tons of profits by each one of them, and most of them are sold out completely. This is how the market responds, and the potential would only go higher. If there is many choices of 400~500hp super sedans with luxury/comfort, would ppl really go for the likes of Corvettes? Viper? this should get very interesting.

The market for the super sedans is there, it is up to Lexus to capture them, and I am sure they will.

LexusRules

i think lexus is going at it right.. this is how i've been seeing it ever since the M5 came out... Lexus is just going slowly and trying to make a lot of money so they can afford a screw up like a 500HP sports car (sure its awsome, but they dont make enough money on it to cover reasearch and development or production costs). Soon lexus will start introducing some crazy stuff. As far as the GS300 sport this is just focused on stiffening the handling IMO. Many people esspecially magizines and i quote (as close as memory serves me) from C&D "To soft of a ride GS300 ESSPECIALLY " I think lexus is just trying to stiffen the GS3 up a bit. since the GS4 has the 17s it makes it feel stiffer because of the lower profile tires so thats not a concern as much for lexus.

Its good to see lexus getting more out into the public like L-Tuned and their new car for that Tom Cruise movie. Don't worry guys im happy other companies are making crazy cars, when i get turbo its just more under educated (car wise) buisness men thinking they are all that in their new M5 for me to smoke!!

like 1SICKLEX said, just be happy with what we have, after all if we need the 800HP its only 15,000k away. An M5 is more than that, for half the HP. Think about it and PLEASE stop complaining!!

garnet92

Apparently great minds think alike – as I moved down through the posts in this thread, I’m thinking [screw Lexus corporate, they’ll be satisfying the bean-counters, going by market studies, etc. – we just need some serious aftermarket options for the GS].

You’re right Dexter – at least for me. I’m partially retired now, and unless the stock market recovers, I’m not likely to buy a new 60k car. However, my budget does provide for satisfying my need for speed. If we had a couple of turbo options, and a couple of sc options (more or less off-the-shelf, not custom build-to-fit) that would satisfy me. I’d go for 6-8k for one of those options. Right now, there’s simply nothing available for a GS4 once you get past intake and exhaust. We’re a victim of the numbers (we don’t have ‘em). We’d probably have more lobbying power with a large aftermarket performance house than with Lexus corporate. I like my GS and I’m not going to buy a lesser car just to get cheaper performance parts.

Tiny’s got a good idea there – a thread with posts by those who are SERIOUS about spending some bucks for performance options. The POSTS WOULD INCLUDE THE OPTIONS ALREADY PURCHASED to show that those owners are serious – not just bs. This could possibly get someone’s attention. It would probably take at least a hundred of those posts to get that attention, but it could work. If you’ve noticed the “group buys” – there are tons of folks who WANT IT WANT IT – until the group buy is available, then only a few step up.

Unfortunately, in this world, there’s tons of talk and ounces of action.

Manaray

The need for GS that can match or beat the M5 or E55 is for STATUS. That's all. The market is small, but I'm sure they'll go for full retail or more.

I think Lexus should bring out a M5/E55 killer. It just gives Lexus one MORE thing to brag about.

The M3/M5 and the AMG Benz's are really helping BMW's and Mercedes's image in my opinion....they advertise the cr*p out of them and people are eating it up...marketing really helps a brand....and Lexus may have the most reliable cars, but people don't always want what's most reliable....

Francis K

Manaray you took the words out of my mouth, sumed it up perfectly

ThemisN

Pay the 8k difference for a car that can run with the 74k M5? HELL YEA I WOULD. who says it has to be a car that replaces the GS430 anyway...it can be a limited edition car, just like the M5, where dealers are only getting one a month this yr.

*** far as the insurance on a 20 yr old on an M5....at this rate, ill let you know in 6 months....but im 23. Is that too old?

ThemisN

Like I said...a top dealer in the Northeast gets one a month approximately. Why dont they sell more? Its a limited production car. Its a car that someone buys to make sure not everyone and their mother has it too. Maybe 1500 will be produced this yr...this is how to market to those people in the market for this car. pay 70+K ,and we wont flood the market.


Thats the point! Dealers make about 8k on each m5 they sell. Being that Im in the market, and have some contacts around...this is what I've found. First off, NOONE pays more than sticker. At least not now. The only reason to pay sticker is if you want to and you say you want to in order to get your name up higher on the list. If you are a nice guy that knows someone, or knows someone who barely knows someone, they'll do u the favor and get u the car earlier. I can put in my order now if i wanted, and get it march...before a 9 month waiting list of people!....oh...and they'll cut almost a grand off msrp for me. Not much, but when some are talking about being impossible to leave with an m5 without paying 80k, this puts it in perspective.


Oh and one last thing. If it was so easy and readily available to throw a turbo or supercharger into a 400/430, why dont i see it more? Thats what makes the m5 appealing...you get it...oh and you can STILL supercharge that (once Dinan or someone else comes out with the kit)...and then what can u say??

I love my GS. But the point is...i bought it bc it was the fastest production sedan in the world at the time. It has fallen behind quickly which is the reason why you see many people here disgruntled. Sure it was the total package that sold me...but I want the total package to be at the top. Here I am...and if lexus had a 400hp GS, i would get it. Now, they are losing a customer. I am sure Im not the only one.

Manaray

If Lexus came out with a 400HP GS in the new body style, I would sell my GS430 and buy one (so long as the exterior looks good).

Sure, most of the people may NOT buy one but that car isn't SUPPOSED to sell 10000 copies...It doesn't matter if Lexus doesn't make the same amount of money on it (let's say they only make 1/2 of what they would make on a normal GS), it's about IMAGE to them. Lexus should look at it as a Marketing Campaign rather than a cash cow.

davezaristo

Just received the inside lexus brochure with all the pics for the sportdesign thru the mail..dang those black wood and the brushed aluminum HVAC looks tight...I guess time for a groupbuy...anyone wants to ask Steve for the pricing?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

OK guys, I guess this all comes down to what you're willing to spend, and why you want to own a given car.

Many of you want a car that's tops in its class (power and speed being a big factor), perhaps to impress others (many of you bought the cars as babe magnets too, that's clear) and you're willing to pay almost anything to get it.

I didn't buy a GS because it was 'the fastest 4 door sedan' or anything like that, or to impress anyone else. I buy what fits my needs, wants and budget.

The M5 is a terrific car, but not for me. I'm not interested in a stick anymore for one, and the price is very high of course. Maybe Lexus will do something similar in time, but unlike BMW, a relatively small, privately held car company, Toyota can take its time to build Lexus and hasn't and doesn't necessarily need to go head to head with BMW to be highly successful. I'm SURE the next GS will be more powerful - maybe 340HP perhaps, but an M5 killer? I doubt it.

So those who feel Lexus is behind, you're likely to still be disappointed.

tinygs

No No..... My point is that I I feel if Lexus does not keep up with the market for "HIGH" hp sedans and enter the "Super Sedan" market it will be a tragedy......Because they can...
IMO, if what you consider the "lesser" sought after cars mentioned above are already being planned for release, Lexus needs to go above and beyond no later than 2003.
I honestly feel ALOT of future, prospective Lex buyers will be lost if they do not "up the anny" very soon.
Having seen this concern voiced sooo many times on the CL board alone, I think we will see even our fellow CL members jump ship if Lexus doesnt "bring it" in the next 1-2 years.
One thing that I love, because I have a GS, is the fact that the life cycle is sooo long!!! That being said, maybe moving forward they will do engine re-vamps (more than .3 displacement w/same hp) inside of the body design life span.(did I make sense?)
JMO, TIA, Tiny