BMW vs. GS400
01-30-02 | 09:19 AM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,090
Likes: 0
From: Detroit, Michigan
OK I know there is another thread for this question but its old and I highly doubt anyones answering it now, But somewhere on the forums people were saying that when u race through the 1234d shift gate that ur car is actually slower than when u just step on the gas and let the tranny do the work for u.... Well, every time I step on the gas, the needle never gets to 6300rpms it always shifts just shy of 6000rpms, but when I race with the Shift gate the Needle shifts right as soon as it gets to the redline, now wouldn't that make it a little bit faster since it's getting the maximum engine output because it's not leaving any extra power out? or am I wrong? if anyone has info about this, please let me know, thanks in advanced
ShOwGS
ShOwGS
01-30-02 | 10:07 AM
#33
Lead Lap
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
From: Los Altos,
BriGuyMax wrote:
"the older M5s came with a 6-cylinder that was good for low 6s 0-60 and high 14s in the 1/4....a GS4 will take an old M5 from a stop...or a roll no problem. "
As people often say, don't rely on magazine tests -- although Car and Driver got 0-60mph in 5.6 seconds and a 1/4 mile in 14.2 or so. Is that a "no problem"?
The "6 cylinder" engine had 311 hp in stock trim and you will be hardpressed to find an older M5 that doesn't at least have a chip. As our cars are older an OBD 1 ecu, we realize significant gains from the chip, usually over 280hp at the rear wheels. The chip manufucturers claim 38hp gains which I think is about 10 more than they really provide.
From a dead stop, you may be right as most owners won't do nasty clutch drops. From a roll, just hope the guy misses a shift. Once hovering at 5000rpm, there are few cars that will walk an old M5. Also, pray it isn't a Dinan stroker (3.8 liters, 380hp).
I have never ran a GS400 as the opporunity simply hasn't presented itself. I do know for a fact my car is equal to or faster than an E36 M3.
"the older M5s came with a 6-cylinder that was good for low 6s 0-60 and high 14s in the 1/4....a GS4 will take an old M5 from a stop...or a roll no problem. "
As people often say, don't rely on magazine tests -- although Car and Driver got 0-60mph in 5.6 seconds and a 1/4 mile in 14.2 or so. Is that a "no problem"?
The "6 cylinder" engine had 311 hp in stock trim and you will be hardpressed to find an older M5 that doesn't at least have a chip. As our cars are older an OBD 1 ecu, we realize significant gains from the chip, usually over 280hp at the rear wheels. The chip manufucturers claim 38hp gains which I think is about 10 more than they really provide.
From a dead stop, you may be right as most owners won't do nasty clutch drops. From a roll, just hope the guy misses a shift. Once hovering at 5000rpm, there are few cars that will walk an old M5. Also, pray it isn't a Dinan stroker (3.8 liters, 380hp).
I have never ran a GS400 as the opporunity simply hasn't presented itself. I do know for a fact my car is equal to or faster than an E36 M3.
01-30-02 | 10:31 AM
#34
Driver
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Originally posted by KKelly
BriGuyMax wrote:
"the older M5s came with a 6-cylinder that was good for low 6s 0-60 and high 14s in the 1/4....a GS4 will take an old M5 from a stop...or a roll no problem. "
As people often say, don't rely on magazine tests -- although Car and Driver got 0-60mph in 5.6 seconds and a 1/4 mile in 14.2 or so. Is that a "no problem"?
The "6 cylinder" engine had 311 hp in stock trim and you will be hardpressed to find an older M5 that doesn't at least have a chip. As our cars are older an OBD 1 ecu, we realize significant gains from the chip, usually over 280hp at the rear wheels. The chip manufucturers claim 38hp gains which I think is about 10 more than they really provide.
From a dead stop, you may be right as most owners won't do nasty clutch drops. From a roll, just hope the guy misses a shift. Once hovering at 5000rpm, there are few cars that will walk an old M5. Also, pray it isn't a Dinan stroker (3.8 liters, 380hp).
I have never ran a GS400 as the opporunity simply hasn't presented itself. I do know for a fact my car is equal to or faster than an E36 M3.
BriGuyMax wrote:
"the older M5s came with a 6-cylinder that was good for low 6s 0-60 and high 14s in the 1/4....a GS4 will take an old M5 from a stop...or a roll no problem. "
As people often say, don't rely on magazine tests -- although Car and Driver got 0-60mph in 5.6 seconds and a 1/4 mile in 14.2 or so. Is that a "no problem"?
The "6 cylinder" engine had 311 hp in stock trim and you will be hardpressed to find an older M5 that doesn't at least have a chip. As our cars are older an OBD 1 ecu, we realize significant gains from the chip, usually over 280hp at the rear wheels. The chip manufucturers claim 38hp gains which I think is about 10 more than they really provide.
From a dead stop, you may be right as most owners won't do nasty clutch drops. From a roll, just hope the guy misses a shift. Once hovering at 5000rpm, there are few cars that will walk an old M5. Also, pray it isn't a Dinan stroker (3.8 liters, 380hp).
I have never ran a GS400 as the opporunity simply hasn't presented itself. I do know for a fact my car is equal to or faster than an E36 M3.
01-30-02 | 11:30 AM
#36
Lead Lap
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
From: Los Altos,
I know they aren't slow but the M5 is a high horsepower, high revving car with a 3.91 final drive.
Some time ago a GS owner posted here about a run with an M5 and described the race as "nip and tuck", which I take to mean awful close. A few owners on our email groups have gone to the strip out of curiosity and the times range from a best of 13.8 to about 14.2. Always with a high trap speed.
I would never expect to cleary "beat" a GS from a roll but the M5 will pull most similar cars from 80mph+. Then again, I couldn't pull this damn Golf which I later learned was supercharged and had about 280hp at the wheels. That made me feel better.
I am just saying your comment that an older M5 would be "no problem" is simply wrong. I was trying to be diplomatic about it.
Some time ago a GS owner posted here about a run with an M5 and described the race as "nip and tuck", which I take to mean awful close. A few owners on our email groups have gone to the strip out of curiosity and the times range from a best of 13.8 to about 14.2. Always with a high trap speed.
I would never expect to cleary "beat" a GS from a roll but the M5 will pull most similar cars from 80mph+. Then again, I couldn't pull this damn Golf which I later learned was supercharged and had about 280hp at the wheels. That made me feel better.
I am just saying your comment that an older M5 would be "no problem" is simply wrong. I was trying to be diplomatic about it.
01-30-02 | 03:39 PM
#37
Driver
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Originally posted by KKelly
I know they aren't slow but the M5 is a high horsepower, high revving car with a 3.91 final drive.
Some time ago a GS owner posted here about a run with an M5 and described the race as "nip and tuck", which I take to mean awful close. A few owners on our email groups have gone to the strip out of curiosity and the times range from a best of 13.8 to about 14.2. Always with a high trap speed.
I would never expect to cleary "beat" a GS from a roll but the M5 will pull most similar cars from 80mph+. Then again, I couldn't pull this damn Golf which I later learned was supercharged and had about 280hp at the wheels. That made me feel better.
I am just saying your comment that an older M5 would be "no problem" is simply wrong. I was trying to be diplomatic about it.
I know they aren't slow but the M5 is a high horsepower, high revving car with a 3.91 final drive.
Some time ago a GS owner posted here about a run with an M5 and described the race as "nip and tuck", which I take to mean awful close. A few owners on our email groups have gone to the strip out of curiosity and the times range from a best of 13.8 to about 14.2. Always with a high trap speed.
I would never expect to cleary "beat" a GS from a roll but the M5 will pull most similar cars from 80mph+. Then again, I couldn't pull this damn Golf which I later learned was supercharged and had about 280hp at the wheels. That made me feel better.
I am just saying your comment that an older M5 would be "no problem" is simply wrong. I was trying to be diplomatic about it.
01-30-02 | 04:09 PM
#38
Lead Lap
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
From: Los Altos,
265 ft. lbs. stock. Maybe 285 ft. lbs with a chip. Don't forget the 3.91 final drive. The engine is designed to stay up near its peak hp. If I shift at redline, as I grab the next gear I am already at over 4800rpm, usually about 5000. Your car shifts at 6000rpm while mine spins happily to 7300rpm. So, what I give up in the lowend is made up for at the top end.
Guys love to argue hp and torque. I kind of stick to the real world. I have gone down straightaways on roadcourses nose to tail with Camaros, M3's, S2000's, M Roadsters/Coupes, Mustang Cobras, chipped S4's, etc. My car compares favorably with all of them. Not that a tenth here or there matters on a roadcourse.
Car and Driver did get 14.2 at 99mph in the 1/4 mile in 1990. So, add the chip and some more modern tires and it certainly won't be slower than that.
I know GS's are fast. I have a friend with a 350hp+ M5 (cams and bigger throttle bodies) and he was caught off guard by one. He did not lose but was surprised he didn't pull away. He had not downshifted. I warned him that with any new V8 these days you have to go to the lowest gear or you could lose.
Guys love to argue hp and torque. I kind of stick to the real world. I have gone down straightaways on roadcourses nose to tail with Camaros, M3's, S2000's, M Roadsters/Coupes, Mustang Cobras, chipped S4's, etc. My car compares favorably with all of them. Not that a tenth here or there matters on a roadcourse.
Car and Driver did get 14.2 at 99mph in the 1/4 mile in 1990. So, add the chip and some more modern tires and it certainly won't be slower than that.
I know GS's are fast. I have a friend with a 350hp+ M5 (cams and bigger throttle bodies) and he was caught off guard by one. He did not lose but was surprised he didn't pull away. He had not downshifted. I warned him that with any new V8 these days you have to go to the lowest gear or you could lose.
01-31-02 | 12:20 AM
#39
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 561
Likes: 4
From: ATX
Originally posted by KKelly
I know GS's are fast. I have a friend with a 350hp+ M5 (cams and bigger throttle bodies) and he was caught off guard by one. He did not lose but was surprised he didn't pull away. He had not downshifted. I warned him that with any new V8 these days you have to go to the lowest gear or you could lose.
I know GS's are fast. I have a friend with a 350hp+ M5 (cams and bigger throttle bodies) and he was caught off guard by one. He did not lose but was surprised he didn't pull away. He had not downshifted. I warned him that with any new V8 these days you have to go to the lowest gear or you could lose.
01-31-02 | 08:16 AM
#40
Lead Lap
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
From: Los Altos,
He eventually hit his powerband and pulled the guy. I am sure his face would have been kind of a raised eyebrow. Actually, the cams come on at the very top of the powerband. I wouldn't have spent the money for the increase. The throttle bodies are from a Euro 3.8 liter and must have been painfully expensive. Remember, an M5 has six of them.
Any car that is in the 14's can surprise you if you make a mistake. It is interesting when on roadcourses to see what cars you can hang with, or hang with you, when mistakes are made in the corners just before a straightaway. I was hanging with F355's at Laguna because the guys were literally coasting through the corners and then applying the throttle. I had so much more momentum leaving the corners that it would take them half a straightaway to make it up. People thought my car had 500 hp. It was really that the Ferrari guys were novices. I have also been smoked by Miatas that never slow down, even in the corners. You think you are a good driver until you see those guys.
Any car that is in the 14's can surprise you if you make a mistake. It is interesting when on roadcourses to see what cars you can hang with, or hang with you, when mistakes are made in the corners just before a straightaway. I was hanging with F355's at Laguna because the guys were literally coasting through the corners and then applying the throttle. I had so much more momentum leaving the corners that it would take them half a straightaway to make it up. People thought my car had 500 hp. It was really that the Ferrari guys were novices. I have also been smoked by Miatas that never slow down, even in the corners. You think you are a good driver until you see those guys.
01-31-02 | 05:47 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 851
Likes: 2
From: Texas
My compliments
Kkelly – just wanted to compliment you on your attitude – you’re a classy guy (even if you do drive the opposition). I’ve owned two 5-cars (not M-5s) and still have a world of respect for BMWs. I do however love my GS4 (and previously a SC4). I enjoy your banter with us CL guys and you never seem to lose your cool. A damn shame all of the non-Lex types who visit the site aren’t as cool. Keep enjoying your M-5 and maybe you’ll have the opportunity to “read the badges” one day!
01-31-02 | 07:06 PM
#42
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 561
Likes: 4
From: ATX
Re: My compliments
Originally posted by garnet92
Keep enjoying your M-5 and maybe you’ll have the opportunity to “read the badges” one day!
Keep enjoying your M-5 and maybe you’ll have the opportunity to “read the badges” one day!
02-15-02 | 12:14 AM
#43
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Everybody know GS4's only rival is the 540... I don't understand why everyone is comparing the GS4 to the ugly M3 (older version). It's like comparing apples to oranges... Has anyone raced a 540? Are 98 540 and up all the same speed (0-60) (1/4mile). And is the manual 540 faster then the auto GS4? I wonder? When I drive stock GS4, I feel very unsafe taking hard turns... why can't they make them like the 540.
02-15-02 | 09:55 AM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Its all about the track times, Ive seen many M3's run at the track they they always pull off high 14's to low 15's. My friends 99 4dr ran 14.7 with intake and exhaust (5spd). I had a chance to borrow one, and guess what it broke on me. I personally think the BMW manual tranny is garbage. Rather have a Hondas tranny! Anyone ever ran their GS4 at the track?
