kyle3481

guys i just wanna share something with you guys, a while ago i bought a japanese video, and it has AristoV300, 330ci, M5, M3, lancer EVO7, and skyline GTR, the track race come out that Lancer EVO7 first, skyline GTR second, M3 third, M5 fourth, V300 fifth, and 330ci stick 6th. And they are all in stock form!

just wondering how GS430 will perform against a 330ci stick on the track, since V300 and GS430 acceleration performance is similar in stock form. since V300 can outrun a 330ci stick easily , how about a GS430 VS 330ci stick??? what u guys think?
i have a GS430 / Ltuned suspension/ front/rear STB / RMM 3.76LSD, 18's with micheline pilot sport, how do u guys think how my car will perform againt a 330ci stick on the track?

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

the outcome isn't surprising, just like what I would expect.

The Aristo is stock right? if it's tuned or have suspension upgrades then the GS430 would be no match for it.

Comparing your car with 330ci stick: it all depends on the driver of the 330ci, and also you. Driven by the same driver, I would expect the 330ci to be alittle faster but who knows.

kyle3481

hey globe
yea the Aristov300 is stock, all of the cars are stock.
i would guess that a stock V300 will run 0 to 60 in about 5.5s?

how about a GS430 with some suspension upgrades??
ex: Ltuned suspension/front/rear STB/ TRD sways/ Tom's braces/RMM 3.76 LSD

will this out perform a STOCK 330ci stick??

KKelly

It probably would out perform a stock 330ci stick but what if the same upgrades were on the 330ci? Bottom line, the 330 chassis is very stiff and it is lighter than a GS. That makes a big difference. A 330ci sport is not a soft suspension and performs pretty well on a track. I have an acquaintence who has gotten very quick on roadcourses with a 330ia and R compounds, otherwise stock. It is all about the driver.

biggie27

if im not mistaken I read somewhere a while back that a stock gs400 was alittle faster than a stock v300, as for a 330ci Ive raced a few and won all of those races

enginyr

330 will loose baby yeah....0-60 6.8 stick 7.1 auto

RON430

I am quickly getting to not knowing what the point of these questions are. If you are going to talk about real racing, drag or road, there is a lot more than 0-60 times and a few simple mods involved. For one, you had better think about the track. Any racer worth his salt would never talk about who is going to have an advantage over who without knowing a lot more. If you are talking about a superspeedway oval, my guess is that the GS would inevitably pull the bimmer pretty bad, just aero and hp. If you are talking about an autocross, my guess is I would rather be in the bimmer with a stick. Not to offend anyone who is autocrossing a GS but it would not be in the running for FTD assuming it could even make a clean run. I am not the slightest bit disappointed in my GS but it is also not on my shortlist if I were going to return to competition. Street bragging is one thing but if we are talking about competition on a road course, understand there is a lot involved in being competitive other than 0-60 and a few mods. Not intended to flame anyone but let's just keep those personal reality distortion fields toned down a bit. First time in a Trans Am Z28 following a Lotus Elite into a twisty section of Road America and you get religion of who is faster. When we hit a straight, it was different but not as much as you think. I still couldn't go anywhere near as deep as the Lotus into the turn before braking. Just lots more involved than who's got 20s and a strut tower brace. Mean Gene - You have anything to add?

kyle3481

on the track, an Aristo V300 performs better than a 330ci stick , its no question, v300's chasis and suspension is the same as the GS400/430, accelration times are about the same on both OR v300 is A BIT faster on the straight line than the GS400/430 maybe.



any input?

QBranchCars

I agree with Ron. If you're talking about performance on a road course, there are just too many factors in determining the better car. A car that may be fast on the straights may be slow on the twisties. Each can make up time in its own "favorite" part of the course.

Kyle, it's interesting you were the one that also started the GS vs M5 thread. My suggestion is to sign up for a hi-performance driving event to experience first-hand the "driving envelope" of your own car, and witness the capabilities of others. See the 330 and M5 in action. Anything else and we're just being pencil jockies. Besides, it's a lot of fun.

Iceman

Here's a related but slightly different question: Why does the Japanese market seem to get all of these super-tuned sports cars when, for the most part, they are stuck driving clogged freeways and tiny, winding city roads? I know that there is a perception elsewhere in the world that Americans don't need/deserve/know how to appreciate high-performance vehicles, and I can understand the Europeans needing speed and control, but what's up with the Japanese home market? I'm confused!

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

1) Japanese market is just like the US market, everyone likes to fix up cars. But in Japan they have all the best Japanese cars not offered in other countries (GTR, all those turbo cars like Sylvia and RX7, etc. etc.) so instead of making just intakes, mufflers, and lowering springs, they're offered with more suspension parts, turbo and mecha tuning parts, and other goodies. It's just a higher degree compared to US.

2) They have most professional tracks opened to the public. Unlike here that has maybe one event every 2 weeks at 1 location or something, they have dozens of tracks open many days on weekdays and sometimes on weekends also, when there are no professional events. It's alot easier for them to actually test out the acceleration, handling, etc. Here in US it's 70% freeway and 30% surface streets. You don't get those fun mountain roads, and tracks are very limited. When we finally get a racing event, chances are, it's going to be just DRAG racing.....

3) Like I said, Japan has mountain roads, and we're talking about ALOT of them. Once you leave Tokyo, Yokohama, etc, all you're gonna see is mountain roads. Of course not all of them are going to be Mt. Akina or something like Initial D style, but mountain roads do make up a large proportion of Japanese roads, making actual testruns accessible.

So in the end, US cars don't really need all those handling parts, because unless you're visiting the tracks everyday, it's not gonna be worth the many thousands of dollars you drop. 90% of the time I just race on freeways, and all I need is a good set of springs to stabilize me. Maybe some sway bars and STB but no Japanese wheelbase aerodynamics or 40 bars in my car

RON430

kyle3481 - I guess I just wasn't clear enough. A tight race track with short straights won't let a car with a marginal hp advantage to enjoy it. Lighter weight helps both intermediate acceleration and braking and a stick gives you much better ability to keep the engine near its best range. If you like M5s try and find an autocross. Normally you don't see M5s autocrossing because a guy who has spent that much money doesn't like to be slower than forty year old Corvairs but it happens. I can't agree more with Qbranchcars, try a driving course or go out for some amateur SCCA racing and see what makes a difference on a race track. And one of the bigger things is the driver. After you get past the specs, it is the guy in the seat who has to extract the maximum performance at any given time. The guys who are good, whether F1 or drag racing really get my respect for being able to drive a vehicle in any kind of event where any more acceleration, braking, or steering input, put you in the weeds. The six car shootout you talk about sounds like something more from GT3.

GlobeCLK - Great answer. If I added anything it would be that you keep seeing references to how expensive it is for auto makers to certify engines in the US (has to be done with each gearbox as well) and then they have to warranty emissions performance for 50K. I think that is another reason why a lot of great cars (or at least engine/trannie combos) never make it here. I don't know exactly how involved these testing programs are but the auto makers have to weigh the cost versus the potential number sold. Seems like the Japanese are especially prone to keeping the hotter stuff at home. What a shame.

kyle3481

great infos guys
thanks a lot for all the inputs

KKelly

Have to agree with Ron.

In Nor Cal we have 3 primary tracks. Laguna Seca, Sears Point and Thunderhill. Laguna is a great track for big hp cars. You can be pretty slow in the corners and still get good times due to the fact there are three uphill straights that reward high hp cars. Sears Point is a track for the nimble cars. There are really no straightaways and a great handling car will kick butt. The difference between me and say a 944 is much greater at Sears than other tracks because I can't use my hp as much. Thunderhill is kind of in between.

With equal drivers, the lighter car will usually prevail. A 330i is close enough to a GS in acceleration that it should be quicker around a roadcourse with an equal driver. 400lbs is A LOT of weight on a track. Some people say a 180lb passenger is as much as 2 seconds a lap difference. Try carrying two more around. You can' t change the laws of physics. You may be able to flog the heavier car around faster but you will be closer to the ragged edge while doing it.

And we all know Bimmers are better at the limit, right?

whitels

Car and Driver Magazine says 330ci manual trans will do 0-60 at 6.8. So I was hoping to see it's badge when I raced one last week. (LS was rated at 7.1)

Naahhhh!!!

The LS won by one car length on a typical boulevard block length. The BMW even chirped it's tires on launching. I have my 14 year old daughter with me on the LS. The BMW driver was alone (very thin, looks like in his early 20s).

My LS: Pure stock, and Mobil 1.