My car still shakes at 65-75 MPH after.....
06-10-09, 09:38 AM
#76
And on a separate note, does someone know for sure if our wheels are hub centric or lug centric?
Because most, if not all, tire shops balance tires using a cone adaptor that is hub centric. But if our wheels are designed to be lug centric, then this method is wrong. The make lug centric adaptors to balance wheels, but hardly any shops have them. When you consider the fact that our cars came without hub centric rings from the factory, that probably means they are lug centric?
If thats they case, then its super important to only have quality rims, where lug center and hub center are exactly the same. It is unlikely to find a shop that has a lug centric adaptor to balance our wheels, so they will use hub centric method to balance them, and if you have wheels where these two centers are off, it will shake.
Because most, if not all, tire shops balance tires using a cone adaptor that is hub centric. But if our wheels are designed to be lug centric, then this method is wrong. The make lug centric adaptors to balance wheels, but hardly any shops have them. When you consider the fact that our cars came without hub centric rings from the factory, that probably means they are lug centric?
If thats they case, then its super important to only have quality rims, where lug center and hub center are exactly the same. It is unlikely to find a shop that has a lug centric adaptor to balance our wheels, so they will use hub centric method to balance them, and if you have wheels where these two centers are off, it will shake.
06-10-09, 09:41 AM
#77
Pole Position
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Och... you really sound like you know what you're talking about and thanks for that detailed input! There is no such thing as being over-educated on this and I'll take all you said and keep it in mind.
In reality though... I don't think you're going to convince most of us that we should not be putting wheels larger than 17" on our cars.
Lexus wheels are hubcentric from what I've learned.
In reality though... I don't think you're going to convince most of us that we should not be putting wheels larger than 17" on our cars.
Lexus wheels are hubcentric from what I've learned.
06-10-09, 09:53 AM
#80
Ok guys, I just did some research, and found tons of information.
Apparently all Lexus wheels are LUG centric. This is exactly where the problem lies. I'm yet to see a tire shop that has Lug centric adaptors on any of their machines, they all center your wheel on the hub. Now if your using OEM wheels or high quality rims, chances are that its fine, but still not proper. However with generic aftermarket rims, thats exactly what the problem is.
Hub centric rings wont help much, because they are plastic, and metal lug nuts will just squeeze the ring and center the wheel on the lug.
Apparently theres a company called Haweka that makes lug centric adaptors that are used to balance our wheels. http://www.agequipment.co.uk/haweka/...angePlate.html
This statement is straight from Haweka - The following manufacturers have made Haweka Flange Plate adaptors a mandatory tool to their dealers in North America: BMW, Land Rover, Lexus, Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota.
Seems like I just figured out the root cause of the problem. If you have shaking, go to your Lexus dealer and request them to balanced them using this Haweka adaptor. If they dont have such adaptor, point out them that its mandatory for them to have it, and complain to Lexus HQ.
This was posted on a Toyota forum
Apparently all Lexus wheels are LUG centric. This is exactly where the problem lies. I'm yet to see a tire shop that has Lug centric adaptors on any of their machines, they all center your wheel on the hub. Now if your using OEM wheels or high quality rims, chances are that its fine, but still not proper. However with generic aftermarket rims, thats exactly what the problem is.
Hub centric rings wont help much, because they are plastic, and metal lug nuts will just squeeze the ring and center the wheel on the lug.
Apparently theres a company called Haweka that makes lug centric adaptors that are used to balance our wheels. http://www.agequipment.co.uk/haweka/...angePlate.html
This statement is straight from Haweka - The following manufacturers have made Haweka Flange Plate adaptors a mandatory tool to their dealers in North America: BMW, Land Rover, Lexus, Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota.
Seems like I just figured out the root cause of the problem. If you have shaking, go to your Lexus dealer and request them to balanced them using this Haweka adaptor. If they dont have such adaptor, point out them that its mandatory for them to have it, and complain to Lexus HQ.
This was posted on a Toyota forum
Originally Posted by DJ
It's an old story.
About four years ago, the Hunter Product Manager for balancers spent a sleepless, dirty, sweaty weekend PROVING that the vibration problem Toyota was having with 4-Runners was due to using the centering cone mounting method when mounting Toyota's lug centric wheels on balancers. The problem wasn't the balancer, the wheel, or the cone. The problem was that the mating of the centering cone with the center hole simply wasn't concentric with the center of the wheel when it was mounted on the vehicle. The center hole simply wasn't made properly for that purpose.
This is VERY precise problem. Every 0.010" error in centering a 60 pound wheel and tire on the balancer is equivalent to a 1.20 ounce imbalance when mounted on the vehicle. Yup, I checked my arithmetic again -- it's right, and that's a BIG imbalance.
If you have lug-centric wheels, you can easily waste a lot of money fighting this problem. I suggest looking until you find someone who'll do it right -- with a Haweka adapter on a Hunter GSP9700.
(Note: I corrected this after I first posted it. That's what I get for doing arithmetic when I'm pooped. Mea culpa.
About four years ago, the Hunter Product Manager for balancers spent a sleepless, dirty, sweaty weekend PROVING that the vibration problem Toyota was having with 4-Runners was due to using the centering cone mounting method when mounting Toyota's lug centric wheels on balancers. The problem wasn't the balancer, the wheel, or the cone. The problem was that the mating of the centering cone with the center hole simply wasn't concentric with the center of the wheel when it was mounted on the vehicle. The center hole simply wasn't made properly for that purpose.
This is VERY precise problem. Every 0.010" error in centering a 60 pound wheel and tire on the balancer is equivalent to a 1.20 ounce imbalance when mounted on the vehicle. Yup, I checked my arithmetic again -- it's right, and that's a BIG imbalance.
If you have lug-centric wheels, you can easily waste a lot of money fighting this problem. I suggest looking until you find someone who'll do it right -- with a Haweka adapter on a Hunter GSP9700.
(Note: I corrected this after I first posted it. That's what I get for doing arithmetic when I'm pooped. Mea culpa.
Last edited by Och; 06-10-09 at 10:07 AM.
06-10-09, 10:02 AM
#81
My car is shaking too. The shaking comes and goes during a highway trip and from day to day. It's weird.
Anyway, I'd like to find a source for replacement upper ball joints. I don't think I should have to buy the entire upper suspension arm to get new ball joints. Does anyone have a lead for a direct replacement ball joint?
I can do some leg work to find a source for a suitable replacement, however, I need a ball joint to take measurements from. Does anyone have a spare upper arm they can remove the ball joint from and send to me? I can return it if needed.
Brian
Anyway, I'd like to find a source for replacement upper ball joints. I don't think I should have to buy the entire upper suspension arm to get new ball joints. Does anyone have a lead for a direct replacement ball joint?
I can do some leg work to find a source for a suitable replacement, however, I need a ball joint to take measurements from. Does anyone have a spare upper arm they can remove the ball joint from and send to me? I can return it if needed.
Brian
06-10-09, 10:47 AM
#83
Pole Position
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This confuses me... why then do Lexus wheels fit over the hubs so snugly? There seems to be little (if any) play between the hub of the wheel and the hub. I don't understand where the lugs would have room enough to move the wheel on the hub since it's such a tight fit.
Your research is most definitely appreciated!
Your research is most definitely appreciated!
06-10-09, 10:52 AM
#84
This confuses me... why then do Lexus wheels fit over the hubs so snugly? There seems to be little (if any) play between the hub of the wheel and the hub. I don't understand where the lugs would have room enough to move the wheel on the hub since it's such a tight fit.
Your research is most definitely appreciated!
Your research is most definitely appreciated!
Look at the shape of the lug nuts and how the fit. Now thats snug.
06-10-09, 10:57 AM
#85
Couple more things.
1) If using Lexus/Toyota wheels, it is important to use proper size lugnuts. Aftermarket lugnuts might be different size and throw the center off.
2) Aftermarket wheels might be designed to be hub centric. Lug nut holes might be drilled bigger than OEM holes, and lug centering will not be possible. Then it is essential to use hub centric rings.
1) If using Lexus/Toyota wheels, it is important to use proper size lugnuts. Aftermarket lugnuts might be different size and throw the center off.
2) Aftermarket wheels might be designed to be hub centric. Lug nut holes might be drilled bigger than OEM holes, and lug centering will not be possible. Then it is essential to use hub centric rings.
06-10-09, 10:58 AM
#86
The Green Grundel
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I fixed the shaking!!
All you have to do is sell the car. Problem solved. I absolutely could not stand it anymore. If you guys still think its because of something like tires or wheel weights you are going to be disappointed when you realize how far from the problem that is.
All you have to do is sell the car. Problem solved. I absolutely could not stand it anymore. If you guys still think its because of something like tires or wheel weights you are going to be disappointed when you realize how far from the problem that is.
Last edited by BigVIPness; 06-10-09 at 11:02 AM.
06-10-09, 11:50 AM
#88
Looks like everyones feeling the same way i did when i had my shaking vibrations, this is crazy
What cured my was -
1. Road forced balanced (found wheels bent, off balance and bubbled tires)
2. Got bent wheels fixed into specs..(Road forced again)
3. New OEM ball joints (driver and passenger)
4. New OEM caster arms (LCA #2 driver and passenger)
5. Daizen steering rack bushings
6. Now it super smooth like the first day i bought it haha
Good luck guys.... hope this helps
EDIT: 7. Got new tires as well haha 225/35/19 Front 245/35/19 Rear
What cured my was -
1. Road forced balanced (found wheels bent, off balance and bubbled tires)
2. Got bent wheels fixed into specs..(Road forced again)
3. New OEM ball joints (driver and passenger)
4. New OEM caster arms (LCA #2 driver and passenger)
5. Daizen steering rack bushings
6. Now it super smooth like the first day i bought it haha
Good luck guys.... hope this helps
EDIT: 7. Got new tires as well haha 225/35/19 Front 245/35/19 Rear
06-10-09, 12:10 PM
#89
06-10-09, 01:08 PM
#90
I fixed the shaking!!
All you have to do is sell the car. Problem solved. I absolutely could not stand it anymore. If you guys still think its because of something like tires or wheel weights you are going to be disappointed when you realize how far from the problem that is.
All you have to do is sell the car. Problem solved. I absolutely could not stand it anymore. If you guys still think its because of something like tires or wheel weights you are going to be disappointed when you realize how far from the problem that is.
In all seriousness, not everyone is experiencing vibrations at 65, 75, 100 etc.. My car does not vibrate at all regardless of speed.. There are so many factors that can cause vibrations..