Having a weak moment with my car
12-19-09, 09:11 AM
#1
Having a weak moment with my car
While driving around yesterday my check engine light, VSC, and VSC OFF lights all decided to stare back at me. It has been raining here nonstop so I figured that maybe driving around in puddles for the last two days had gotten some water in a sensor or something, but I called my service advisor anyway. He said that the water shouldn't affect anything and to bring the car over.
An hour later he walks out shaking his head and tells me that my exhaust manifold is underperforming. Retail cost to fix it is $1800, my cost is $1050 (as an ex-employee). As a college student I just don't have $1,000 to fix it right now and I am down on the car as a whole. I bought it with 66K on it in July of last year and am now just under 80K. In a year and a half I have had to fix or replace the following:
- 3 door lock actuators (we all know how much they cost)
- 1 battery
- sunroof creak/rattle
- 1 O2 sensor
- noisy/creaky ball joints
- My nav screen flashes purple intermittently and will need to be replaced at some point
- Now this exhaust manifold
I am left here thinking, "Whatever happened to 'Lexus reliability'?" even though I know the company as a whole builds great cars. Previous to this I owned Toyota Camrys and 4Runners that all had over 100,000 miles on them and never saw more than an oil change or scheduled service. Never had a problem once. I was a member here for years before I made the jump to Lexus and heard all of this talk about how these cars are built to an even higher standard than Toyotas and are often even more reliable and enjoyable to own. People I talked to within Lexus all said that the 2GS was one of the best built, most reliable and dependable cars that the company ever built. I still believe all of these comments but I am very disgruntled with my experience so far and feel that it is not typical.
If this car continues to cost me thousands of dollars a year in maintenance then it's going to be put up for sale sooner rather than later. As a college student I don't have the ability to pay for three door lock actuators in a year, an exhaust manifold, etc. Some of you will say "you have to pay to play, and it's a Lexus" but my experience seems significantly less satisfactory than what I have heard from others about this car. I also have the 90K service on the horizon and I don't even want to think about what will fail between now and then, or then and 100K. I had always heard that these cars had a few things go wrong as the clock neared 100K but I have had so many problems so early on that I am wondering if I have just encountered my problems early, or if they are just getting started.
Any input
?
An hour later he walks out shaking his head and tells me that my exhaust manifold is underperforming. Retail cost to fix it is $1800, my cost is $1050 (as an ex-employee). As a college student I just don't have $1,000 to fix it right now and I am down on the car as a whole. I bought it with 66K on it in July of last year and am now just under 80K. In a year and a half I have had to fix or replace the following:
- 3 door lock actuators (we all know how much they cost)
- 1 battery
- sunroof creak/rattle
- 1 O2 sensor
- noisy/creaky ball joints
- My nav screen flashes purple intermittently and will need to be replaced at some point
- Now this exhaust manifold
I am left here thinking, "Whatever happened to 'Lexus reliability'?" even though I know the company as a whole builds great cars. Previous to this I owned Toyota Camrys and 4Runners that all had over 100,000 miles on them and never saw more than an oil change or scheduled service. Never had a problem once. I was a member here for years before I made the jump to Lexus and heard all of this talk about how these cars are built to an even higher standard than Toyotas and are often even more reliable and enjoyable to own. People I talked to within Lexus all said that the 2GS was one of the best built, most reliable and dependable cars that the company ever built. I still believe all of these comments but I am very disgruntled with my experience so far and feel that it is not typical.
If this car continues to cost me thousands of dollars a year in maintenance then it's going to be put up for sale sooner rather than later. As a college student I don't have the ability to pay for three door lock actuators in a year, an exhaust manifold, etc. Some of you will say "you have to pay to play, and it's a Lexus" but my experience seems significantly less satisfactory than what I have heard from others about this car. I also have the 90K service on the horizon and I don't even want to think about what will fail between now and then, or then and 100K. I had always heard that these cars had a few things go wrong as the clock neared 100K but I have had so many problems so early on that I am wondering if I have just encountered my problems early, or if they are just getting started.
Any input
?
12-19-09, 09:36 AM
#2
The only real problem with these cars are the lower control arms that cause the balljoint failure (do a search on this as you should change them or the bushings before you toast another set of bj's) and the door lock actuators.
You bought a car with a primitive nav system, it was good at the time but the technology was new at the time. I would bet that similiarly aged nav systems from other manufactures also have small glitches/annoyances.
Everything else is normal wear/tear maintenance. Things will wear out over time. If the exhaust manifold failed, that is cause by corrosion from the car being subjected to many short trips. Your battery lasted around 7 years, what do you want from it? Sensors will wear out, I would bet the O2 sensor was fouled from use of cheap gas from either you or the PO of the car. Toyota doesn't even make those sensors themselves anyways.
I guess what I'm getting at is that in the grand scheme of things you haven't had to deal with much. Look to see what owners of a simialry aged BMW 5 series or Mercedes E class have to deal with. The 2GS is a good car.
oh and I call BS anyways on "exhaust manifold underperforming" LOL WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN???!
You bought a car with a primitive nav system, it was good at the time but the technology was new at the time. I would bet that similiarly aged nav systems from other manufactures also have small glitches/annoyances.
Everything else is normal wear/tear maintenance. Things will wear out over time. If the exhaust manifold failed, that is cause by corrosion from the car being subjected to many short trips. Your battery lasted around 7 years, what do you want from it? Sensors will wear out, I would bet the O2 sensor was fouled from use of cheap gas from either you or the PO of the car. Toyota doesn't even make those sensors themselves anyways.
I guess what I'm getting at is that in the grand scheme of things you haven't had to deal with much. Look to see what owners of a simialry aged BMW 5 series or Mercedes E class have to deal with. The 2GS is a good car.
oh and I call BS anyways on "exhaust manifold underperforming" LOL WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN???!
12-19-09, 10:18 AM
#3
The exhaust manifold is not shot completely but isn't performing where it should be, thus tripping the codes.
I think my problem is that we hear "Mercedes is too high maintenance...BMWs are too expensive to maintain!" when in reality I have spent a few thousand dollars in just a year and a half fixing my "religiously-reliable" Lexus. We owned a '01 E320 that, short of one electric issue with the windows and sunroof, was a rock solid reliable car. Much more so than my GS.
I am having trouble telling if these issues are an indicator of what's to come, or if I am just bumping into issues well before my 100,000 "deadline". I am hoping it's the latter because if something else serious pops up then this car is going in the classified section.
I think my problem is that we hear "Mercedes is too high maintenance...BMWs are too expensive to maintain!" when in reality I have spent a few thousand dollars in just a year and a half fixing my "religiously-reliable" Lexus. We owned a '01 E320 that, short of one electric issue with the windows and sunroof, was a rock solid reliable car. Much more so than my GS.
I am having trouble telling if these issues are an indicator of what's to come, or if I am just bumping into issues well before my 100,000 "deadline". I am hoping it's the latter because if something else serious pops up then this car is going in the classified section.
12-19-09, 11:12 AM
#5
bmw owners experience cooling system failures and mb owners have electrical problems..... its really a draw either way. I would venture to say that our cars are every bit as reliable as 1LS and 2LS models as well. Camry based lexus (ES, RX) models have trans and oil sludge issues...those are REAL problems.
Last edited by sivikvtec; 12-19-09 at 11:18 AM.
12-19-09, 11:16 AM
#6
The exhaust manifold is not shot completely but isn't performing where it should be, thus tripping the codes.
I think my problem is that we hear "Mercedes is too high maintenance...BMWs are too expensive to maintain!" when in reality I have spent a few thousand dollars in just a year and a half fixing my "religiously-reliable" Lexus. We owned a '01 E320 that, short of one electric issue with the windows and sunroof, was a rock solid reliable car. Much more so than my GS.
I am having trouble telling if these issues are an indicator of what's to come, or if I am just bumping into issues well before my 100,000 "deadline". I am hoping it's the latter because if something else serious pops up then this car is going in the classified section.
I think my problem is that we hear "Mercedes is too high maintenance...BMWs are too expensive to maintain!" when in reality I have spent a few thousand dollars in just a year and a half fixing my "religiously-reliable" Lexus. We owned a '01 E320 that, short of one electric issue with the windows and sunroof, was a rock solid reliable car. Much more so than my GS.
I am having trouble telling if these issues are an indicator of what's to come, or if I am just bumping into issues well before my 100,000 "deadline". I am hoping it's the latter because if something else serious pops up then this car is going in the classified section.
Last edited by sivikvtec; 12-19-09 at 11:20 AM.
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12-19-09, 01:39 PM
#8
Driver
What code is the check engine light on for??? If a dealer diagnoses the problem they must scan for a code.
The check engine, vsc, and trac off come on because they share readings from sensors. So when one sensor goes bad it can trigger those lights.
Get the code, post it up here and lets see whats really wrong with your car... Im betting you have a CAT efficiency code and thats is why they are recommending the exhaust manifold.
The other thing is... If your car is an 03 as it says in your sig, and you do need a cat converter, then its covered under federal emissions warranty for 8 years or 80,000 miles whichever comes first.
Good luck
On a side note, cars are like people, some people get a cold, some people get pneumonia.
The check engine, vsc, and trac off come on because they share readings from sensors. So when one sensor goes bad it can trigger those lights.
Get the code, post it up here and lets see whats really wrong with your car... Im betting you have a CAT efficiency code and thats is why they are recommending the exhaust manifold.
The other thing is... If your car is an 03 as it says in your sig, and you do need a cat converter, then its covered under federal emissions warranty for 8 years or 80,000 miles whichever comes first.
Good luck
On a side note, cars are like people, some people get a cold, some people get pneumonia.
Last edited by lexus ASM; 12-19-09 at 01:43 PM. Reason: added comment
12-19-09, 01:42 PM
#9
College student.. 
Here i thought you were a grown man with kids... 
on a side note i would be frustrated to with continuous issues that keep popping up.. These are great cars but when it rains it poors i guess.. Keep us posted.. You do have a rare GS don't forget..
Here i thought you were a grown man with kids... on a side note i would be frustrated to with continuous issues that keep popping up.. These are great cars but when it rains it poors i guess.. Keep us posted.. You do have a rare GS don't forget..
12-19-09, 02:10 PM
#10
I'm not taking a jab at you, but do you understand what the exhaust manifold is? Exhaust gasses exit the head out of this manifold, the manifold converges into a collector, and out the exhaust. So in a simplified model, you can consider it a bunch of exhaust pipes coming together before it goes through the cat. converter and out the tailpipe. This is a piece of metal that is either fine, or cracked/corroded. There is not a "performance" metric. I know you used to work there and all, but it seems as if you are getting scammed by the dealership. If you have VSC lights coming on, its obviously due to a sensor or the related controlling computer or acutating units. I would ask the dealer what the code read when he checked the VSC light, if he can't answer you I would get far away from there and try another shop. I bet the Toyota dealer can handle this too, but would call them to check.
I don't think these guys would rip me off since I worked there and consider many of them friends, but I don't have all that much knowledge of the components, as you seem to. I texted my adviser/friend and asked for the code so ill keep you posted.
I appreciate the info and advice.
12-19-09, 02:13 PM
#11
What code is the check engine light on for??? If a dealer diagnoses the problem they must scan for a code.
The check engine, vsc, and trac off come on because they share readings from sensors. So when one sensor goes bad it can trigger those lights.
Get the code, post it up here and lets see whats really wrong with your car... Im betting you have a CAT efficiency code and thats is why they are recommending the exhaust manifold.
The other thing is... If your car is an 03 as it says in your sig, and you do need a cat converter, then its covered under federal emissions warranty for 8 years or 80,000 miles whichever comes first.
Good luck
On a side note, cars are like people, some people get a cold, some people get pneumonia.
The check engine, vsc, and trac off come on because they share readings from sensors. So when one sensor goes bad it can trigger those lights.
Get the code, post it up here and lets see whats really wrong with your car... Im betting you have a CAT efficiency code and thats is why they are recommending the exhaust manifold.
The other thing is... If your car is an 03 as it says in your sig, and you do need a cat converter, then its covered under federal emissions warranty for 8 years or 80,000 miles whichever comes first.
Good luck
On a side note, cars are like people, some people get a cold, some people get pneumonia.
12-19-09, 02:20 PM
#12
damn, thats a lot of things going wrong on a 03 GS. I say sell it! but lets swap the interiors before that! J/K(i'm going crazy for that saddle leather 
but on a serious note - didn't you get a repaint a little while ago? considering the $$ you've spent on that i think you should fix up the GS and try to enjoy it a few more years.
I've owned a 01 Nissan Pathfinder for 2.5 years prior to GS and that truck was a tank! Maybe the previous owner took really good care but i've never had to do anything to it besides the oil/brakes/spark plugs. The GS on the other hand....is becoming a money pit. I'll be honest here - i don't find myself believing this Lexus reliability hype. Most likely its just that previous owner(GS) was treating the car like ish.
but on a serious note - didn't you get a repaint a little while ago? considering the $$ you've spent on that i think you should fix up the GS and try to enjoy it a few more years.
I've owned a 01 Nissan Pathfinder for 2.5 years prior to GS and that truck was a tank! Maybe the previous owner took really good care but i've never had to do anything to it besides the oil/brakes/spark plugs. The GS on the other hand....is becoming a money pit. I'll be honest here - i don't find myself believing this Lexus reliability hype. Most likely its just that previous owner(GS) was treating the car like ish.
12-19-09, 02:31 PM
#13
Don't buy a new one from them. First of all it should be covered under the federal emissions mandatory warranty. If they really try to beat around the bush, then just drop in a used one from a wrecking yard. You can usually pick those up from them for like $150 range or so with the cats. I think they are just trying to screw you over, the factory cats are designed to go well past 150k miles and some 2GS people here on the forum even get them 200-250k+! He might be your friend, but someone higher up in the chain is forcing him to sell you those extra parts that you don't necessarily need. This is why I do not like dealing with dealerships on anything for the car. I have a friend that works at the Lexus dealership, but the only time I ever go there is to get OEM parts. I never get anything worked on there...EVER.
The catalytic converter efficiency trouble code(manifold under performing) can be tripped by a bad O2 sensor. I had the O2 sensor on my 02 GS3 SportDesign go out on me at 90k miles. I picked up a used one from the junkyard for $15 and was good to roll again lol. If you're semi handy you should be able to fix any of this stuff very easily. Changing out the front 3 o2 sensors should only take 5minutes each. The door lock actuators can be fixed for $2 each if you're willing to spend about 1hour to pull it out and repair it. The sunroof just needs to be greased, and tightened up, about a 1-2hr task.
For being a college student I think you should try to work on stuff yourself so you can save as much money as possible. I'm a college student myself and I started doing my own small stuff in the beginning. Then I moved on to more and more advanced stuff, now look where I wound up
The catalytic converter efficiency trouble code(manifold under performing) can be tripped by a bad O2 sensor. I had the O2 sensor on my 02 GS3 SportDesign go out on me at 90k miles. I picked up a used one from the junkyard for $15 and was good to roll again lol. If you're semi handy you should be able to fix any of this stuff very easily. Changing out the front 3 o2 sensors should only take 5minutes each. The door lock actuators can be fixed for $2 each if you're willing to spend about 1hour to pull it out and repair it. The sunroof just needs to be greased, and tightened up, about a 1-2hr task.
For being a college student I think you should try to work on stuff yourself so you can save as much money as possible. I'm a college student myself and I started doing my own small stuff in the beginning. Then I moved on to more and more advanced stuff, now look where I wound up
12-19-09, 03:59 PM
#14
I appreciate you putting it into layman's terms for me because I'm really not 100% familiar with how the manifold works, even though the tech (and a friend of mine) tried to talk me through it. He said the exhaust manifold is extremely dirty which is preventing it from running the way that it should. He said that because of how the system is designed the E.M. has to be replaced because its not a part that can be removed, cleaned, and put back together. Something about it being a spit chamber design that flows into the cat? Does that make any sense?
I don't think these guys would rip me off since I worked there and consider many of them friends, but I don't have all that much knowledge of the components, as you seem to. I texted my adviser/friend and asked for the code so ill keep you posted.
I appreciate the info and advice.
I don't think these guys would rip me off since I worked there and consider many of them friends, but I don't have all that much knowledge of the components, as you seem to. I texted my adviser/friend and asked for the code so ill keep you posted.
I appreciate the info and advice.
12-19-09, 04:10 PM
#15
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every car has it's issues,some more than others
my friend's IS was brought cheap and spent a considerable amount on getting things fixed/replaced
my sister's IS was brought on the slighty expensive side but not a single problem yet...
my friend's IS was brought cheap and spent a considerable amount on getting things fixed/replaced
my sister's IS was brought on the slighty expensive side but not a single problem yet...