LexFather

Actually Toog4me the GS 430 is selling less than the GS 400. The price is more fully equipped (though u now get ML and other goodies) and the loss of e-shift may account for this. Also cars later in their model life tend to sell less.

Dudes, I just checked out that website and it looks like the new M3 is pissing a bunch of people off. incredible, COMPLETE engine failure, that is NUTS in a 50k + car!

meanboy

Hey, they only lost 39 or 40 engines...

meanboy

Hey, they only lost 39 or 40 engines...

Maybe, more now..

Iceman

I was telling my wife about the amazing exploding M3 engines right after we saw that one in the showroom marked up $20K over sticker. We both agreed that manufacturing problems CAN happen to anyone, but what's unfathomable is BMW's complete denial of customer service. How can they issue service bulletins for specific parts that are failing at an alarming rate, yet blame customers for driving their cars too hard when these same parts fail on relatively new performance-oriented vehicles?

I've predicted it for over two years now (since my debacle with BMW began)--they are resting on their laurels and will soon decline in reputation and prestige. The cars are already pushing the price envelope for what you get, in my opinion. The marketing bubble created by "The Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan is going to be burst by poor quality products, abominable customer service, and unacceptable interior/exterior design. Apparently there is already a backlog of broken iDrive units awaiting replacement...

meanboy

S.F BMW only marks up M5's by 10k. I guess that's the bargain car right now!

CSHFLW

You guys rag out BMW too much....

First off, I have both a lex and a bmw...and I HATE lexus service...I mean, I hate them with everything I have.....

BMW, they are not that friendly, but then again...I never have to go to them for anything....and BTW, BMW covers ALL my 325i maintanance costs, cheap-o-lexus wants 45 to change the oil every 3500 miles.....BMW's go 15,000 miles per oil change.

And both M5's and M3's can be had at MSRP or lower.....

Iceman

I bought an M Roadster almost three years ago and just traded it in on a GS430. My story may not be typical, but judging by the tone of letters written to Roundel (the BMW Club magazine), it is.

BMW salespeople don't need to be very friendly or knowledgable because the cars are selling themselves. There is plenty of demand for the product, so even at inflated prices they are selling easily.

In general, Lexus salespeople I have dealt with have been consummately courteous and professional. Yes, they are still car salesmen, but they at least seem to know something about their product and the competition. There was a lot of ignorance about L-Tuned, however.

The Bimmer itself was a maintenance nightmare. Although only a couple of major things broke making the car undrivable, there was a steady stream of minor annoyances. Their service departments are booked up weeks in advance, indicating to me that they are putting too much emphasis on sales and not enough on service (it also tells me that BMW's are in the shop a lot!). Most service visits took three tries: once to diagnose a problem and order parts, the second time to realize they ordered the wrong parts, and the third time to fix it. Of course in the intervening time other things broke, so I was stuck in an almost constant state of rotating in and out of the shop.

It's too soon for me to rate the Lexus on longevity and reliability, but build quality and solidity seem eons ahead of the BMW. If J.D. Powers is right, though, this should last basically forever.

The final item is aesthetics and ergonomics. I don't like the looks of the new 7 series and it looks like the 5 is right behind it. The iDrive system is an unqualified failure--they managed to take simple, essential operations and make them as complicated as possible. It might be just me, but the locations and looks of *****, buttons, levers, etc. in the Lexus are just more logical and attractive.

So please don't take my comments personally--they're not directed AT anyone, they're just intended to tell MY story. I don't fault anyone for wanting a BMW, because after all I wanted one too. I just predict that in a few years the marketplace will realize they've been getting the wool pulled over their eyes, and BMW will be hurting big time.

GunnerMac

I'm in agreement with Iceman. I too own both a BMW (328i) and a Lexus. The main reason I now drive a Lexus is because of the Beemer...well that an the attitude of the salespeople.

To make a long story short I have far more problems with my BMW than one would expect...more than any other car I have owned with the exeption of the Hydaui I drove back in 1987-88. I don't think I would ever purchase another BMW. The only reason that I still have the 328 is because its paid for and my wife likes the way it drives (she doesn't have to take care of it).

meanboy

Maybe the M5/3 can be had for msrp, but to offer it for 10K more then sticker to begin with shows pure arrogance on their part. I just laughed and walked away.

The BMW has a very aggressive service schedule. I don' know how realistic it is for long ownership. I don't think they have loaner cars avavilable when a car is brought in for service but I am not 100% sure.

I don't like the dead pedal on the 3 series. It's a little high for my tastes. And the gas pedal is a little stiff too. But other then that it was pretty good. I really liked the way the 5 series looks but it's EOL in it's current form.

The BMW seems to get more stares though. I am seem invisible in the GS.

Iceman

Scheduled maintenance was covered on the BMW for 3 years/36,000 miles, whichever came first. You can only bring it in when the computer tells you to, which for me was about every 9,000 miles. They had a few stripped-down 3-series loaners but they were never available (another indication to me that they have too many cars coming in for service). Dealers I have used offered a local shuttle service or one time, when they had to keep my car for about a week waiting for parts, they got me a classy subcompact rental car from Enterprise.

Lexus pays for the first two services, which I found a nice surprise when we picked up the GS. As time goes on, I'll see if Lexus maintains the high standards of customer service I experienced during the sales process.

soakgame

i'd get the gs430... but if u do get a beamer... get an M5...

Toog4me

THE m5 is so nice and fast..., i would take it over the gs.

meanboy

All it takes is $$

GSquicksilver

dude, screw the bimmer!

you guys ALL know about their "infinite" tranny oil rite? that you never need to change their tranny oil. well a good friend of mine has a shop where he dedicates his service to transmission repair only. he tells me that he sees more bmw's in the shop for transmission problems than any other car. it turns out that their "infinite" oil is not so infinite afterall. he's seeing bmw's with around 100k - 150k with completely failed transmissions. and the worst part, you need to get a new transmission. they can't rebuild these transmissions! so HAHAHAHAHA, LEXUS still RULES!!!!!

GunnerMac

meanboy, throw some nice aftermarket wheels on her and all that will change...since I put on the 20s it get so many stares that it sometimes makes me uncomfortable.

BMW free sceduled maintenance is very overated. Like Iceman said, you can only take it in for scheduled maintenance when the computers indicates. In my case I think I got to take it in for schedule maintenance about 3 times before the warranty expired. However, since the warranty expired they say I sould bring it in every 5k