Kajukenbo

Okay, Gunner........you are now officially Oldmac........hahaaaa

BLiu

Ummmmm.....OK.....Whatever you say dude!

I just hope you don't offend the 40-something crowd on this forum with that comment....

Brent

CSHFLW

The new 7 is definantly a younger persons design....it's more aggressive then "most" older people want and more non traditional.

KKelly

Some of the earlier posts are just delusional. Putting that aside for the moment, if one reads this board they would think BMW's just fall apart on people. Given the fact that BMW is a tremendously profitable company and its sales continue to grow, despite the great reputation Lexus has and has had for quite a few years, that is obviously not true and some people simply prefer the car. It is that simple. There is no right car for everyone. The average ES300 owner would hate the ride of my wife's 323iT with sport package. It is definitely firm by most standards. Some midsize sports sedan owners want a manual transmission--Lexus doesn't offer one. Some want a bit of engine noise, some don't. It really is great that you are proud of your choices, as are most BMW owners. Doesn't mean they are necessarily the right choice for everyone else.

As for the mark up on BMW's, most other companies would pay dearly for that kind of brand identification. The fact they can charge $10k more and people will pay it is a credit to BMW. You may not agree but they would be kind of dumb not to. It would be just throwing money away.

I know they cost more to drive in the long term. I wanted my wife to get a Lexus. She simply wanted a BMW or Audi (after 3 Japanese cars) so I got her one. The best thing is I get to drive it sometimes and even for a wagon it is drives like only BMW's do. So far, at 25k no visits to the dealership.

Rico's Revenge

I don't believe that anyone here thinks that Beemers just fall apart. Apparently there are a few people on the board that had some maintenance issues. My perception of the original post was that Beemer owners seem to have a need to keep their noses in the air...maybe they just get nose bleeds or they just like the look of the ceiling, I don't know.

My experience is when I go to a show and shine and I get classified in a "Euro" class because they have nowhere else to put me. The Beemer guys infallably believe that I should be in the same class with the Civics. My "ricer" doesn't belong anywhere near their beautifully crafted machines. Its like the $41,000 sticker price of my car in 1995 doesn't match up with the $33,000 sticker on their 2002 330i. As was said earlier, its not all BMW owners, there are dicks everywhere (they all seem to hang out in the men's room though ) including some Lexus snobs (who like to look down on the 1st gen GS). It just seems like there is a higher percentage of them in the Bavarian corner. Hell, I even have looked at the ES300s and thought, "What is the point? Just buy an Avalon." But I come back to realize that the purchase of that car is the owners choice. Just as you said that Beemer owners have made their choice. Why is it that (SOME) Beemer owners can't respect MY choice?

Its like we are supposed to be impressed that they deliberately and knowingly overpaid $10 grand or more just for the brand recognition. Well, they can keep thinking that way and I'll keep taking home their trophies.

GS4Will

hmmm let me see if i understand this correctly, as a long time car maker, bmw is a profitable co, good for them. yet they see no need to please their potential clients by offering higher quality parts and better customer service?:eek: could they be making more $$$, sure they could...

heck i have owned beemers before, so did many here...and you know, my 7s did not fall apart at 45k miles, it just stopped running on the fwy(almost got rear-ended)..sure there are always people willing to pay more, but heck a car is a car, right? 4 wheels, a motor, and a box that would take you from a-to-b....yeah i admit that i bought into that "ultimate driving machice thing"(that is what i called delusional)...sure they drive great, just got tired of driving into see my tech guy every few weeks...geee i wonder why bmw did not see the need to come up with this free-maintenance thing before they faced stiff competition....

well, may be this royal treatment at my lexus dealer truly raised my expectation of a high-end car's ovearll ownership....no, bmw is not a pos, fun to drive, and i would pay for one that charges less $$$ to justify its lower than par quality...hey i am not making this up, that is based on tons of surveys published.....and few feedbacks from ex-beemer owners here...for good business practice, retaining current owner is just as important as explroing new ones, correct?

KKelly

I would agree that nobody should be looked down on for their choice. I actually don't give most other cars much thought. There certainly are certain cars where I wonder, "What were they thinking?" but those will remain unnamed and there are no Lexi on the list.

I think some BMW owners go kind of overboard with the attitude but am finding that more and more owners of the high-priced Japanese luxury cars are doing the same thing---however, the hatred of BMW owners is something they all have in common. Sometimes the venom in the posts is just amazing.

If we wanted to all make the practical, right choice for transportation we would be all be driving Honda Accords with quattro. However, our vanities dictate otherwise and we buy cars for lots of reasons--including what we want other people to think about us (even if that is that we are practical and understated).

By the way, Beemer=BMW motorcycle and Bimmer=BMW cars.

Rico's Revenge

Thanks for the Bavarian ettiquette lesson .

The reason that the high end Japanese car owners have an anti-BIMMER attitude is due to the reflection of the attitude passed down by the owners of BMWs. If so many of the high end Japanese car owners have this attitude, then wouldn't it fit that there is something to it? I can't tell by your sig if you own a Lex or not. If not then you are an exception and a true luxury/performance enthusiast as shown by your 200+ posts on a Lexus site. Again, my problem is not with the cars, its with the people.

Todd

VVT-i

Well said Rico, but some of the Lexus owner has the same attitude too. I think it's not about the car they drive, but the person himself. This debate can go on and on without any solution. It's in everybody's head and what's kind of a person he or she is, not the car. FYI, Ted Turners always driving the Ford Taurus and Bill Gates used to have a 1st gen LS before he auction it to the charity at $75,000.00. Just my .02

KKelly

Ditto. I sure am not going to not by a BMW because of someone's stereotype. BTW, my dad has a '91 LS400. We both have about 160k on our cars. His is slow and boring but has been a great car for him. You know, back then, a Lexus really was a bargain. I think he paid $39k through a leasing company. My car was $58k new but is a totally different animal.

garnet92

In Kkelly’s defense, I’ve seen a number of his posts over the past year or so and I’ve never seen him bash Lexus – he’s always had intelligent, reasoned comments. He’s a car guy –an enthusiast with an M5 – which most of us will admit is a damn nice car. We should respect and welcome his opinions. Sure, we can have some disagreements, but mostly those will be because the writer has a different set of wants/needs in the car he/she chooses.

We’ve had a few butt-holes on CL – fortunately, a small minority in my opinion – but they show up from time-to-time nonetheless. There’ll never be an open forum on the web without them. But, as far as this old geezer is concerned, I like to hear the view from the other side. Frankly, I’d like to hear from more Bimmer-guys like Kelly.

BMW does some things very right – they handle great, right out of the box – the inline 6’s sound puts a smile on your face when accelerating in 2nd (I’ve had 2 5-series, but no V8). And, they have earned an enviable reputation as a driver’s car. This is something that CL members want to see Lexus corporate brain-surgeons copy and surpass.

Overall, I believe that Lexus builds a better, more dependable car. My experience with 2 BMW dealers was never satisfactory – my 2 Lexus dealers treat me like a king. I prefer the Lexus interior; I think it’s more luxurious. And, after spending about 8K on my GS4, I think that it sounds great, handles great, and hauls a$$. For me, it’d be a lot more fun to park his M5 and my GS4 next to each other and talk cars, maybe rag on each other some, but drive away with some mutual respect.

My .35 cents worth.

LexFather

KKelly is cool (hell he tracks his cars too).

The new 7, the interior is amazing to me, the exterior is growing on me, but it is just too big of a car for me at this point.

KKelly

I can't ever see myself in something like 7, even though guys I have met that drove them said they are pretty amazing for their size. However, they are ugly. Personally, discussions about the 745i, big *** Mercedes and LS430's have no interest for me at all and I am probrably older than most of you guys.

Thanks for the post above guys. I do try to stay objective. I just like fast, practical cars and the GS400 was on my list when I was looking for my car. I just wasn't ready for something quite that "nice" yet. The fact that the M5 sets off car alarms with a stock exhaust gives you some idea of the difference. I have also had guys ask me if it has cams. That is how lumpy the idle is. No doubt there are times I wish it was more comfortable and quieter but then I run it to the rev limiter and say "nah."

As for dealers, I have primarily owned used out of warranty BMW's and have a good independent shop work on my cars. My wife's 323iT has had no problems so far and the dealer has been fine when in for scheduled service. I do manage them a bit by letting them know I work on my other car (which they usually see when I drop the car off). I think this may put you up the priority list as they can't b.s. you. Of course that shouldn't matter but that is the reality. For BMW to change things would require a restructuring of the dealer network. As they are independent businesses, BMW only has so much control. What they need are new contractual arrangements so they have more control. Not likely in the near future.

Iceman

I remember BMW tried to do this a few years ago when they introduced the X5. They only certified certain dealers as "sports activity vehicle-qualified", and since it was a high-demand, high-profit vehicle every dealer wanted to sell them. I have to admit, though, that I have never seen a BMW dealership that didn't have X5's on the lot, so maybe this was just a marketing gimmick like so much else...

meanboy

You're an old fart too? I don't feel so bad now.