HowdyAudi

Hello all, this is my first post in this forum but I'm a member of many more so I know the value of the Search feature.

To introduce my self, I am coming from a 2002 Audi A4 V6 6M sedan which I've owned all of two months. During those two months, that car has siphoned over $2000 from my wallet! As a college student that is pretty significant. Now I love German cars, always will and I have no doubts I will own many more in the future. But for the present time, I just cannot afford to own one. This is my second German car, the first was a 1987 BMW 5 series, and I drove a 2002 Acura TL before that. I don't wish to start a debate about why Lexus is better than any European import. Rather I've come to learn about the Lexus GS430 and why I should buy it over the GS400. First, I will explain why I'm not considering the GS300. It's slow in stock form and I have not intention of modding anything. An I6 is my favorite engine, from my BMW days, but the Lexus variant is just too underpowered for my tastes. I'm passing on the GS400 because it doesn't offer side curtain airbags which I now require to be in every car that I own. But I REALLY wish the 430 had the E-Shift.

After doing extensive searching, I've determined that the known weak points of the early 2gen GS are: ball joints, lock actuators, head unit pixels, rough engine idle, condensation in head lamps, steering wheel shake(control/thrust arm bushings?), alignment issues, and the untraceable squeak/rattle. (please correct or add to list if I've left out or misinterpreted something.)

So the big question here is which of the issues of the 98-2000 GS models were resolved in the 2001+ models?

My secondary inquiries are these:
- How do these cars handle wet/snowy conditions? I live in northern Utah and the roads can be bad. Are dedicated snow tires required if I want to stay on the road?

- From my experience with the Acura, I need to know if the the auto transmission in these cars is flawless. The Acura needed a replacement at 60K and it hasn't been the same since. My manual tranny in the Audi is showing signs of failure too and I don't drive it hard.

- How is the paint quality on these cars? My Audi does have a few rock chips on the hood but the body is double galvanized so rust is not a worry.

Thank you to all who provide input. I've got to get out of this Audi and into something reliable quick.

Solo_D33A

ball joints are safety and precautionary and cheap, might as well do it just for the heck of it.

lock actuators, depends on what goes out, if it's motor (it doesn't lock or unlock, but if you open the door the dome light for it lights up), it's cheap and easily replaced.
If it's the sensor, you might have to replace the actuator, which is more expensive, but it still locks or unlocks, replacing it is same as replacing motor as you'll have to get them both out as one unit anyways, it's easy. Just be careful if you unlock the car than open that door, since it doesn't have sensor working, it'll lock the car after a while. My sensor on rear passenger side have gone for loooong time, didn't bother me at all.

rough engine idle usually just needs cleaning.

head unit pixels... don't know, my navi screen from 1998 haven't had anything... (but unable to update (think the latest update to HD navi is to 04?) for 98-00 navi units or use in Canada is a thumbs down, 01+ have dvd navi I think...)

winter tires best if you are in snow, if it's wet snow, you can do with all season, any accumulation = snow tires

tranny's fine on mine so far, no problems at all and haven't heard much problems of it other than when you're pushing 400+hp, then you need to upgrade valve body and stuff...

rock chips on hood haven't rusted so far... but if you cut them lets say on the rear fender, it'll rust of course...

steering wheel shake part, the caster arms for front suspension supposedly are TRD units for 01+, but basically the car's problems are about the same...

oh, and the key's range might not be very good, and the key's back casing at the screw point may break, then you'll have to get a new backing... which is what I have to do come to think of it....

Other than the steering wheel shake and ball joints, everything else is minor that you doesn't really have to care about after time... the car's like a tank especially in reliability.

HowdyAudi

Hey, thanks for the quick reply. So do you have the 400? I worry a little about the squeaks/rattles too. That's one thing my Audi does really well is stay tight and quiet. Not even sharp bumps shake anything loose in the car.

When you say something needs to be cleaned to get rid of the rough idle, what specifically were your referring to? I had to run a super potent fuel additive to my car recently to clean build-up out of my fuel system. Is that what you meant?

Surprised to hear about the key fob range. It has to be better than mine. I can't get the Audi to pick up the signal until I'm literally 10 feet away which pretty much defeats the purpose of having a remote. Can the 'beep' sound the car makes during lock/unlocking be amplified? It helps when looking for it in a parking lot.

werewolf

- How do these cars handle wet/snowy conditions? I live in northern Utah and the roads can be bad. Are dedicated snow tires required if I want to stay on the road?

Badly without snow tires and really good all-seasons. the 430/400 is 3800lbs and RWD. In the limited number of times I've been put into cold weather / bad weather situations, I've had to be careful with my 400 (I have Kumho ASX A/S on with good tread). The issue is on turn and accelerate situations. The TSC will catch the car but feels late on the intervention (the Audi DSC is better and I've used both)..The car puts down a lot of power thru 2 wheels. The big xfactor is what kind of winter driver are you (how aggressive) and what you're willing to put up with.

- From my experience with the Acura, I need to know if the the auto transmission in these cars is flawless. The Acura needed a replacement at 60K and it hasn't been the same since. My manual tranny in the Audi is showing signs of failure too and I don't drive it hard.

The tranny is really good like 150k to 250k miles good

- How is the paint quality on these cars? My Audi does have a few rock chips on the hood but the body is double galvanized so rust is not a worry.

No comment. I've really never had rust issues but I live in SoCal but find the paint soft (many rock chips on the front)

I think you've got to get a 400/430 on some side roads and judge for yourself.

GS4_Fiend

iTrader: (22)

You did a good job on searching those infamous problems.

HowdyAudi

^^^Thanks! I try to do my research as best I can. One other thing popped into my head just now; the wood trim panels on these cars, do they crack easy because of sun light or changes in temp? I have about four trim pieces in my car that are cracked but you can't really tell unless you are looking for them. I hear these are real expensive to replace.

vscalais

iTrader: (1)

In relation to Lexus paint quality, have a look at this recent thread:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...s-and-cls.html

Especially Thread #11 "...I was looking for black (CLS Mercedes) at first. But after seeing how bad the orange peel was on the black, I opted for silver! I didn't realize how nice Lexus paint was until after that!"

This says it all.

Spyder78

iTrader: (7)

Good job on initial research. The lexus has never had any issues with quality, especially the GS. I have a GS400 and the GS430 is comparable, the only difference is eshift and Drive by wire system.

JeffTsai

iTrader: (1)

I've notice on VAG cars that the paint quality is not that great. I looked closely at a brand new $130k+ Porsche 911 Turbo and the paint had significant orange peel everywhere. On all of the brand new Porsches I looked at, they all had the same amount of orange peel regardless of the vehicle price. Same thing with paint on Volkswagens. I haven't look in depth on the Audi paint yet though.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

The rough idle isn't really an issue in the GS430. It's the GS400 that are more prone to it. Ever since Toyota switched over to full DBW for the GS430, it idles much smoother. If you do get rough idling with the GS430, cleaning the throttle body seems to cure it.

Och

iTrader: (3)

After doing extensive searching, I've determined that the known weak points of the early 2gen GS are: ball joints, lock actuators, head unit pixels, rough engine idle, condensation in head lamps, steering wheel shake(control/thrust arm bushings?), alignment issues, and the untraceable squeak/rattle. (please correct or add to list if I've left out or misinterpreted something.)


1) Ball joints should be checked out on ANY car. There are no issues with balljoints on the GS, they last as long if not longer than any other make. Furthermore, they are only $80 for a set, extremely easy to replace, and technically you don't need alignment with after replacement. With that being said, people that do have issues with ball joints are the idiots that are running ridiculous size rims with lowered suspension and camber all out of whack. That does put stress on ball joints.

2) Lock actuators are a legitimate issue. There are multiple tutorials on here how to get them fixed for about $10 a piece.

3) LCD issues are mostly a problem with older models, this generation GS doesn't have any problems with the LCD screens.

4) Condensation in head lamps isn't an issue on the 430, which comes with HID headlights stock. People that are having these issues are mostly with halogen headlights that have improperly installed HID kits or improperly replaced bulbs. Also a lot of people like to open their headlights to remove amber lense from the turn signal, and then never seal them properly - those ones are the most likely to have issues.

5) Steering wheel shake is not an issue as long as you're running a good set of OEM wheels. People that are experiencing these issues are the ones running oversized sets of cheap aftermarket wheels, that aren't balanced properly and/or are bent out of round from hitting potholes combined with low profile tires.

6) Alignment issues are non existent on stock suspension. The RWD setup combined with double A-arms both front and back is pretty much shock proof when it comes to retaining its alignment specs. You could hit huge potholes that will bubble your tires and bend your rims, and will not affect your alignment. People that are having alignment issues are the ones that molested their cars with crappy aftermarket suspension parts, and they get exactly what they deserve.

7) Untraceable squeak/rattle - I think Lexus are some of the best built cars, and I don't think you'll find many squeaks rattles. On the interior, the only thing that gives an occasional rattle is the headliner, and as suspension bushings wear out, sometimes you'll hear a very minor rattle or squeak from the suspension, but they are nothing to worry about.

8) Rough idle is usually just the matter of cleaning the throttle body. Takes exactly 30 minutes, some rags and a can of carbon cleaner.





My secondary inquiries are these:
- How do these cars handle wet/snowy conditions? I live in northern Utah and the roads can be bad. Are dedicated snow tires required if I want to stay on the road?

As with any RWD car, you will want snow tires in the winter. I've been driving various cars in NYC since 1998, and I first got my set of winter tires in the winter of 09-10, and they make such a drastic difference that I will never go another winter without them.


- From my experience with the Acura, I need to know if the the auto transmission in these cars is flawless. The Acura needed a replacement at 60K and it hasn't been the same since. My manual tranny in the Audi is showing signs of failure too and I don't drive it hard.


Auto transmission on all RWD Lexus vehicles are pretty much bulletproof. I don't think you will find many people with failed transmission on LS/SC/IS/GS vehicles.


- How is the paint quality on these cars? My Audi does have a few rock chips on the hood but the body is double galvanized so rust is not a worry.


The paint quality is excellent, if its original and hasn't been repainted. Not much orange peel, no issues with swirls or fading.

With all of that being said, make sure you find an unmolested car. Make sure that whoever you're buying it from isn't a "ricer", make sure it doesn't have any mods - suspension, engine, interior or cosmetic. Check for accident history, check the body and subframe for any hidden body and paint work.

Stay away from anything that had suspension mods. Stay away from aftermarket rims. Just find a vanilla, unmolested car, and you're going to be extremely pleased.

HowdyAudi

Splendid. Thank you for your thorough replies regarding my concerns. I've been looking around here locally for GS430s but I cannot find any within my price range. I've seen a couple 02 models but they are about $2,500 out of my price range ($8000-$9000), and they have comparatively high mileage for their age. I'm really not looking forward to the whole selling/buying process again because my Audi purchase was a nightmare. I'd like to buy local because I hate the annoyance of travel and it's expense. I'll try looking in the surrounding states with warmer, dryer climates than Utah hoping to find one with minimal exposure to salted winter roads. What should I expect to pay for a 2001 GS430 with 108K-130k miles? I know that's a big range but 135k is 15K a year and I don't want anything higher.

HowdyAudi

What is "orange peel?"

ThomasGS4

iTrader: (19)

Why can't every noob be like you?

Warm towels are right over there in the corner. Enjoy your stay!

TLcoats

iTrader: (11)

I know huh! You learn so much more when you actually do some research. Want a cookie? They're fresh.