What oil should i use? Help please!!
10-10-11, 06:28 AM
#32
10-10-11, 09:59 AM
#34
Yes. The issue came up eons ago when you had real synthetics (unlike the majority of so called synthetics that are really dino highly refined) were made with ester and diester base stocks and by nature were very high detergent, and CLEANED the engine up good. But in the olden days of cars (70's and 80's and even some 90's) the sludge, aka, dirt, in the engine would cake up on the seals and then when the synthetics came in, would clean the sludge/dirt out and then you would have an oil leak. The leak was always there, but it was sealed by dirt.
But no one has had engine problems other than oil leaks that I have ever heard of going from dino to synthetic. On newer engines I have never had an issue with running synethtics. The last one was a 275k mile Aerostar van 4.0L that I ran Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 in and it got a small leak, but for 275k it was the FIRST leak it ever had. Bloody amazing for a Ford!
The maxlife oils have more additives to make the seals and gaskets swell to prevent leaks or slow leaks and have more zddp to prevent engine wear. If you have an older engine with a distributor or have flat tappet cam/lifters, then you NEED has high as you can get ZDDP levels. For those engines, I HIGHLY recommend oils like Shell Rotella T/Rotella T Synthetic or Delo 400 or Delvac 1300/Delvac 1 that meet CI4 or high specs. Oils for cars don't meet CI4, they meet SM or SN specs, which is poor for older flat tappet or distributor engines.
But no one has had engine problems other than oil leaks that I have ever heard of going from dino to synthetic. On newer engines I have never had an issue with running synethtics. The last one was a 275k mile Aerostar van 4.0L that I ran Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 in and it got a small leak, but for 275k it was the FIRST leak it ever had. Bloody amazing for a Ford!
The maxlife oils have more additives to make the seals and gaskets swell to prevent leaks or slow leaks and have more zddp to prevent engine wear. If you have an older engine with a distributor or have flat tappet cam/lifters, then you NEED has high as you can get ZDDP levels. For those engines, I HIGHLY recommend oils like Shell Rotella T/Rotella T Synthetic or Delo 400 or Delvac 1300/Delvac 1 that meet CI4 or high specs. Oils for cars don't meet CI4, they meet SM or SN specs, which is poor for older flat tappet or distributor engines.
10-10-11, 10:03 AM
#36
Yes. The issue came up eons ago when you had real synthetics (unlike the majority of so called synthetics that are really dino highly refined) were made with ester and diester base stocks and by nature were very high detergent, and CLEANED the engine up good. But in the olden days of cars (70's and 80's and even some 90's) the sludge, aka, dirt, in the engine would cake up on the seals and then when the synthetics came in, would clean the sludge/dirt out and then you would have an oil leak. The leak was always there, but it was sealed by dirt.
But no one has had engine problems other than oil leaks that I have ever heard of going from dino to synthetic. On newer engines I have never had an issue with running synethtics. The last one was a 275k mile Aerostar van 4.0L that I ran Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 in and it got a small leak, but for 275k it was the FIRST leak it ever had. Bloody amazing for a Ford!
The maxlife oils have more additives to make the seals and gaskets swell to prevent leaks or slow leaks and have more zddp to prevent engine wear. If you have an older engine with a distributor or have flat tappet cam/lifters, then you NEED has high as you can get ZDDP levels. For those engines, I HIGHLY recommend oils like Shell Rotella T/Rotella T Synthetic or Delo 400 or Delvac 1300/Delvac 1 that meet CI4 or high specs. Oils for cars don't meet CI4, they meet SM or SN specs, which is poor for older flat tappet or distributor engines.
But no one has had engine problems other than oil leaks that I have ever heard of going from dino to synthetic. On newer engines I have never had an issue with running synethtics. The last one was a 275k mile Aerostar van 4.0L that I ran Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 in and it got a small leak, but for 275k it was the FIRST leak it ever had. Bloody amazing for a Ford!
The maxlife oils have more additives to make the seals and gaskets swell to prevent leaks or slow leaks and have more zddp to prevent engine wear. If you have an older engine with a distributor or have flat tappet cam/lifters, then you NEED has high as you can get ZDDP levels. For those engines, I HIGHLY recommend oils like Shell Rotella T/Rotella T Synthetic or Delo 400 or Delvac 1300/Delvac 1 that meet CI4 or high specs. Oils for cars don't meet CI4, they meet SM or SN specs, which is poor for older flat tappet or distributor engines.
10-10-11, 10:39 AM
#38
Can't say I am an expert, I studied a lot of it a while back, so I am pretty out of date I am sure. I tend to stick with what I know works well for a reason (the Shell Rotella T Synthetic), and I am consistent about it. Yes, there is better out there for some stuff, but I am looking for some specific things in my oil. High levels of ZDDP.
If the engine has had synthetic even from time to time it is probably safe. A para or semi-synthetic is still a big improvement ever reg oil. Again, I am picky that I don't like SM or SN spec oil, I really prefer the CI4/CI4-Plus or CJ4 spec oil (aka, Diesels, Compression is the C, S would be Spark). The oils are MADE for very long life, have a high TBN (total base number) and have high levels of ZDDP. Look at a semi, how long do they last? Under HEAVY loads they live for a million miles or more. I want that sort of oil in my car. Yes, the draw back to CI4/CJ4 oils is the high ZDDP can, over a long period of time (upwards of 10 years) coat the cat converter and cause a reduction in catalyst efficiency. So the EPA is mandating that the ZDDP levels keep dropping in the oils. So the only way to get ZDDP is to use CI4/CJ4 oils OR to use an additive like GM EOS (Engine Oil Supplement) that has the high levels of ZDDP.
There is some oils, like race only oils that have high ZDDP, or a "old car formula" oil that have better ZDDP, but only race oils and diesel oils have the most, racing oils the highest, but that oil is NOT well suited for daily driven engines. It needs to be changed more often and usually comes in high viscosities, not often the best for winter temps.
As for what is synthetic now, I really don't know. The claim "synthetic" was corrupted when an oil company wanted to sell dino oil as synthetic and another oil company took them to court over it. The court allowed the claim that dino oil can be "made to perform like synthetic", so therefore it can have the name synthetic. So even M1 with the term "full synthetic" is meaningless, you never know what is in the bottle.
IIRC Amsoil has mostly all real synthetics, as goes the German Castol (the oil that is green in color) is supposedly synthetic. I suspect that Royal Purple might be, but can't be sure at all. Anyone can dump dye into oil to change the color.
Seeing test results of oils, often M1 isn't the best (by far, very far from best). It is good, better than dino oil, but often rates middle of the pack to lower in the pack (depending on the test). But it has price point over most everyone else, they have a strong backing of customers. As most oils though, test say 0W40 vs 10W30 in another brand you see all sorts of different results. Or the tester does a test that he/she knows their product they like best will do well on and it might make that oil shine better than the others. What you want is a Group 4 Synthetics.
Here is a list of REAL synthetics: (dated 2005, old info, probably 90% different now)
http://www.lubritecinc.com/PDF/2009synhddeo.pdf
http://www.lubritec.biz/PDF/spcmo.pdf
From Wikipedia:
"Other base stocks help semi-synthetic lubricants
Group II- and Group III-type base stocks help to formulate more economic-type semi-synthetic lubricants. Group I-, II-, II+-, and III-type mineral-base oil stocks are widely used in combination with additive packages, performance packages, and ester and/or Group IV polyalphaolefins in order to formulate semi-synthetic-based lubricants. Group III base oils are sometimes considered synthetic, but they are still classified as highest-top-level mineral-base stocks. A Synthetic or Synthesized material is one that is produced by combining or building individual units into a unified entry. Synthetic base stocks as described above are man-made and tailored to have a controlled molecular structure with predictable properties, unlike mineral base oils, which are complex mixtures of naturally occurring hydrocarbons.[14][15]"
^ ASTM Fuels & Lubricants Handbook, Hydrocarbon Chemistry, pg 169-184, section 7
^ [Ref: Lubrication Fundamentals, J. George Wills, Mobil Oil Corporation]
If the engine has had synthetic even from time to time it is probably safe. A para or semi-synthetic is still a big improvement ever reg oil. Again, I am picky that I don't like SM or SN spec oil, I really prefer the CI4/CI4-Plus or CJ4 spec oil (aka, Diesels, Compression is the C, S would be Spark). The oils are MADE for very long life, have a high TBN (total base number) and have high levels of ZDDP. Look at a semi, how long do they last? Under HEAVY loads they live for a million miles or more. I want that sort of oil in my car. Yes, the draw back to CI4/CJ4 oils is the high ZDDP can, over a long period of time (upwards of 10 years) coat the cat converter and cause a reduction in catalyst efficiency. So the EPA is mandating that the ZDDP levels keep dropping in the oils. So the only way to get ZDDP is to use CI4/CJ4 oils OR to use an additive like GM EOS (Engine Oil Supplement) that has the high levels of ZDDP.
There is some oils, like race only oils that have high ZDDP, or a "old car formula" oil that have better ZDDP, but only race oils and diesel oils have the most, racing oils the highest, but that oil is NOT well suited for daily driven engines. It needs to be changed more often and usually comes in high viscosities, not often the best for winter temps.
As for what is synthetic now, I really don't know. The claim "synthetic" was corrupted when an oil company wanted to sell dino oil as synthetic and another oil company took them to court over it. The court allowed the claim that dino oil can be "made to perform like synthetic", so therefore it can have the name synthetic. So even M1 with the term "full synthetic" is meaningless, you never know what is in the bottle.
IIRC Amsoil has mostly all real synthetics, as goes the German Castol (the oil that is green in color) is supposedly synthetic. I suspect that Royal Purple might be, but can't be sure at all. Anyone can dump dye into oil to change the color.
Seeing test results of oils, often M1 isn't the best (by far, very far from best). It is good, better than dino oil, but often rates middle of the pack to lower in the pack (depending on the test). But it has price point over most everyone else, they have a strong backing of customers. As most oils though, test say 0W40 vs 10W30 in another brand you see all sorts of different results. Or the tester does a test that he/she knows their product they like best will do well on and it might make that oil shine better than the others. What you want is a Group 4 Synthetics.
Here is a list of REAL synthetics: (dated 2005, old info, probably 90% different now)
http://www.lubritecinc.com/PDF/2009synhddeo.pdf
http://www.lubritec.biz/PDF/spcmo.pdf
From Wikipedia:
"Other base stocks help semi-synthetic lubricants
Group II- and Group III-type base stocks help to formulate more economic-type semi-synthetic lubricants. Group I-, II-, II+-, and III-type mineral-base oil stocks are widely used in combination with additive packages, performance packages, and ester and/or Group IV polyalphaolefins in order to formulate semi-synthetic-based lubricants. Group III base oils are sometimes considered synthetic, but they are still classified as highest-top-level mineral-base stocks. A Synthetic or Synthesized material is one that is produced by combining or building individual units into a unified entry. Synthetic base stocks as described above are man-made and tailored to have a controlled molecular structure with predictable properties, unlike mineral base oils, which are complex mixtures of naturally occurring hydrocarbons.[14][15]"
^ ASTM Fuels & Lubricants Handbook, Hydrocarbon Chemistry, pg 169-184, section 7
^ [Ref: Lubrication Fundamentals, J. George Wills, Mobil Oil Corporation]
Great to find someone else on here that has good knowledge of oil...makes my job so much easier in having to explain everything. To the OP, yes you can go back and forth between dino & syn oil. Right now I'm using dino oil with 5-6k oci's...I'm thinking about using syn but I don't want to "chance" a leak after I put the syn in because it will clean the motor far superior than the dino oil.
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