Considering doing an NA-T build to my GS | Boost Logic Kit
02-13-12, 01:10 PM
#16
Honestly if your in a state where obd and emission checks aren't required the best bang for the buck is to just do a GTE swap. It's a super easy weekend swap if you have everything you need. And then you can upgrade to a single turbo swap down the road when you need more power. It will drive fine right out the box with no tuning, and it's about 1/3 cheaper than going NA-T..
02-13-12, 09:51 PM
#19
One problem with the custom FFIM is that most of them are ultra short runner designs. The low end torque is absolutely terrible lol. I'm guessing this is mainly due to space constraints, so the runner length is usually around 3-4 inches long or so. It's awesome for top end power and high rpm engines that can take advantage of it, but the low end leaves much to be desired.
It's kind of like having camshafts, whereas stock cams will give you max low end to midrange torque, but fall flat on the face up top at high rpms. Then the big aggressive cams will have nothing down low and be monstrous up top.
This is similar to the intake manifold situation. The stock manifold design with long runners will have maximum low end to mid range torque, but bottleneck the engine up top. Then the short runner intakes will be the opposite and flow like a monster up top.
This is another reason why I like building NA-T cars. The head and intake manifold design is tuned by Toyota to be VERY efficient without boost. Yes, it sucks that the intake manifold wraps over the top of the engine, but that design lends to very good low end torque(for a N/A engine of this size lol). When you add boost to it, the car will have an unusually good low to mid range power, and have decent kick with boost up top. A NA-T with single turbo is a more responsive setup compared to a GTE engine with the same turbo. Once you get to higher HP levels, the NA intake manifold will become a restriction, but at most people's "sane street power level" the GE is going to have better performance. This is strictly speaking from the head and intake manifold design standpoint.
The GTE motor on the other hand was designed with some compromises for packaging reasons. If you compare the intake/exhaust ports on the GE vs GTE you will see what I mean. The GTE head has a less efficient design on the exhaust ports where they have to bend very sharply to attempt to collect the exhaust gas into the two stock twins. The GE head has most of the ports as a pretty straight shot vs the GTE. Don't get me wrong, the GTE performs very well but you can clearly see that Toyota made some sacrifices due to engine packaging.
I've done both setups many times so I have had several cars to compare with now. I've even compared some of the NA-T street setups I've done vs the big dogs GTE street setups from Powerhouse Racing and Boost Logic. None of them can match the low end power and response vs the NA-T. At higher power levels, it's really a toss up of who can build the better engine whether it be a GE or GTE lol.
It's kind of like having camshafts, whereas stock cams will give you max low end to midrange torque, but fall flat on the face up top at high rpms. Then the big aggressive cams will have nothing down low and be monstrous up top.
This is similar to the intake manifold situation. The stock manifold design with long runners will have maximum low end to mid range torque, but bottleneck the engine up top. Then the short runner intakes will be the opposite and flow like a monster up top.
This is another reason why I like building NA-T cars. The head and intake manifold design is tuned by Toyota to be VERY efficient without boost. Yes, it sucks that the intake manifold wraps over the top of the engine, but that design lends to very good low end torque(for a N/A engine of this size lol). When you add boost to it, the car will have an unusually good low to mid range power, and have decent kick with boost up top. A NA-T with single turbo is a more responsive setup compared to a GTE engine with the same turbo. Once you get to higher HP levels, the NA intake manifold will become a restriction, but at most people's "sane street power level" the GE is going to have better performance. This is strictly speaking from the head and intake manifold design standpoint.
The GTE motor on the other hand was designed with some compromises for packaging reasons. If you compare the intake/exhaust ports on the GE vs GTE you will see what I mean. The GTE head has a less efficient design on the exhaust ports where they have to bend very sharply to attempt to collect the exhaust gas into the two stock twins. The GE head has most of the ports as a pretty straight shot vs the GTE. Don't get me wrong, the GTE performs very well but you can clearly see that Toyota made some sacrifices due to engine packaging.
I've done both setups many times so I have had several cars to compare with now. I've even compared some of the NA-T street setups I've done vs the big dogs GTE street setups from Powerhouse Racing and Boost Logic. None of them can match the low end power and response vs the NA-T. At higher power levels, it's really a toss up of who can build the better engine whether it be a GE or GTE lol.
Last edited by JeffTsai; 02-13-12 at 10:06 PM.
02-14-12, 03:05 PM
#23
I have a spreadsheet I put together a few years ago with comparing the cost of a piecing together an NA-T, NA-T kits, USDM GTE swap, JDM GTE swap, GTE head with GE bottom modification, and Supercharging. Send me a PM with your e-mail and I'll send the spreadsheet. Options have improved since I put it together 3 years ago nut you'll get the idea quickly of your options.
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