2nd battery placement?
06-18-12 | 05:36 PM
#16
This was my car back in 99/00 - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/172821...-series/page-2
I had 2 Eclipse metal cones in there before, hit 144db (remember it's in the back of a volvo) ... then I switched to the 3 MA Audios, all off that one amp and it slammed louder than the 2 Eclipse's. I use to set car alarms off that were 5 stories up in a garage.
I had 2 Eclipse metal cones in there before, hit 144db (remember it's in the back of a volvo) ... then I switched to the 3 MA Audios, all off that one amp and it slammed louder than the 2 Eclipse's. I use to set car alarms off that were 5 stories up in a garage.
06-18-12 | 05:38 PM
#17
The science behind why you're dimming is because the amp is discharging the battery faster than the alt is putting out. If you fully charge the battery and play it [with car on], you will get no dim at all and it will slam! Give it a few minutes as the amp slowly discharges the battery, dimming will begin because the battery is completely drained and the amp is now basically running straight from the alternator and taking away from what the car needs. This is why smaller amps can push louder than some bigger ones because they come with a bank of caps to give what they need to run at 100%. Its like stacking boost in a car. You can give the engine 20 lbs of boost, but if it cant take it all, its not gonna use it all. Now give the engine 5lbs of boost and it will be MUCH faster and stronger than that of a 20lbs boost because the engine can handle 5lb much more efficient than the 20lbs.
Now if you give that Sundown EVERYthing it needs, then yea it will blow out lots of amps, but once you pay for all it needs, you could have bought the one good amp
Now if you give that Sundown EVERYthing it needs, then yea it will blow out lots of amps, but once you pay for all it needs, you could have bought the one good amp
06-18-12 | 05:50 PM
#18
Also, How much have you spent on all this equipment? Some site says those Subs are $900/ea ?!?! That battery is $300 !?!
I think even with decent equipment, as long as it's designed and installed right it'll sound better than a lot of products. You don't need a huge Subwoofer, you just need a good sized one matched with a good amplifier because if you have a huge magnet, then it'll take more power to to power it. It should be more about how much air a sub can move, response, and frequency range with minimal power. Wow I haven't done this in a long time, but still fun to tinker with ...
06-18-12 | 06:08 PM
#19
Big magnet sure... But if the voice coil is made from aluminum foil, its gonna stink real quick! (burn up) Magnets are cheap, a properly wound coil costs money, companies will choose the lesser of 2 needs for profit... and size ALMOST doesnt matter, equipment does as well as a well thought up enclosure (which is most important) as you said, team up the right amp with the right woofer and in addition to that, team it up with the properly tuned box for the type of vehicle its going in, you get gold. My buds shop got two 6" midbass subs to pound louder than what most people try to get out of a pair of common 10" woofers. 
But then again, you're talking about some bad *** $5k Focal components and bad *** Audison amps to compliment them
But then again, you're talking about some bad *** $5k Focal components and bad *** Audison amps to compliment them
06-18-12 | 07:40 PM
#20
I guarantee the JL will blow it away. Have you see the bank of caps in that thing?
That thing powers itself. I was running 2 of those and another 1000watt JL 4-channel.
I have a friend with a repair shop and he hooked up one of those so called "4000watt" amps and when you watch how it sucks power, its UNBELIEVABLE! He hooked up the JL and the meter barley moved a mm (no joke) The cheaper amps are busy looking for juice to push power that it cant blow it out, good amp stays nicely charged on the inside to provide what it needs.
The science behind why you're dimming is because the amp is discharging the battery faster than the alt is putting out. If you fully charge the battery and play it [with car on], you will get no dim at all and it will slam! Give it a few minutes as the amp slowly discharges the battery, dimming will begin because the battery is completely drained and the amp is now basically running straight from the alternator and taking away from what the car needs. This is why smaller amps can push louder than some bigger ones because they come with a bank of caps to give what they need to run at 100%. Its like stacking boost in a car. You can give the engine 20 lbs of boost, but if it cant take it all, its not gonna use it all. Now give the engine 5lbs of boost and it will be MUCH faster and stronger than that of a 20lbs boost because the engine can handle 5lb much more efficient than the 20lbs.
Now if you give that Sundown EVERYthing it needs, then yea it will blow out lots of amps, but once you pay for all it needs, you could have bought the one good amp
I lost my train of thought lol, I'm done
That thing powers itself. I was running 2 of those and another 1000watt JL 4-channel.
I have a friend with a repair shop and he hooked up one of those so called "4000watt" amps and when you watch how it sucks power, its UNBELIEVABLE! He hooked up the JL and the meter barley moved a mm (no joke) The cheaper amps are busy looking for juice to push power that it cant blow it out, good amp stays nicely charged on the inside to provide what it needs.
The science behind why you're dimming is because the amp is discharging the battery faster than the alt is putting out. If you fully charge the battery and play it [with car on], you will get no dim at all and it will slam! Give it a few minutes as the amp slowly discharges the battery, dimming will begin because the battery is completely drained and the amp is now basically running straight from the alternator and taking away from what the car needs. This is why smaller amps can push louder than some bigger ones because they come with a bank of caps to give what they need to run at 100%. Its like stacking boost in a car. You can give the engine 20 lbs of boost, but if it cant take it all, its not gonna use it all. Now give the engine 5lbs of boost and it will be MUCH faster and stronger than that of a 20lbs boost because the engine can handle 5lb much more efficient than the 20lbs.
Now if you give that Sundown EVERYthing it needs, then yea it will blow out lots of amps, but once you pay for all it needs, you could have bought the one good amp
I lost my train of thought lol, I'm done
these amps (sundown) are supposed to put out some great power and everyone loves them. but i just dont know how they maintain them running at optimal peformence. i will do some research on the car audio forums and see what i can find. as far as im concerened, most everyone has some major electrical work done OR they at least have a couple of batteries to help out. i think ive asked in a thread before and everyone suggested more battery power. but i will look and report back.
i can belive your friends test about jl and one of these big power amps. i mean those jls and high end amps are built very well and come with some very good parts. whereas a lot of these big number power amps use some lower quality hardware. it sucks though. i want to try one of these nice amps and see how it performs in my exact set up versus something like the sundown.
and yeah i can see what you say by the "science" of it. lol it really does make sense and ive thought about it. but i guess since i read/see so many people on the ca.com forums running these sundowns and they run them with no problems i end up feeling like im missing something in my set up thats making it run as smooth as theirs. but like i said i see most of them have a couple of batteriries to aid in the demand of so much juice.
hahah i totally agree with your last statment about getting this amp the power it needs but by that time aleady accumulating enough expenditures to just be able to afford the good efficient amp. lol. for example i need another battery for this sundown right now. thatl run me about 200. if i were to just sell this amp for say 300 (msrp is 799) plus the 200 for a new battery and throw in a couple more hundred that i had to spend on the kinetik i already have and the h/o alt. i couldve clearly afforded it lol.
i might try to sell this and save up for the JL or a good amp. i need something that can push my AA's hard.
06-18-12 | 09:26 PM
#21
Yea the batteries make the difference that you'll last longer before symptoms happen. However, say you 4 batteries (amount makes no difference) you're bumping around like normal no problems but because you alternator isnt fueling enough, when you park you dont have 4 full batteries, maybe closer to equivalent to 3. You come back to car start up and bump again doing the same ol daily thing still with no problems, then you park. Now you're parking with closer to the equivalent of 2 batteries so on and so on. Now you're back to the same place you were before you added batteries and from then on, you'll be wondering, "Why do my lights still dim with 4 batteries"...
Problem is alternator, first thing you gotta do is find out how much amperage that amp pulls (take to a shop or repair shop like I did mine, that meter shows how many amps it draws) with that you'll know what size alt you need. The car comes stock with 100a alt, say your amp is pulling 150a (which is probably close if not less than what it truly draws), that means you need a minimum of 250a alt. You say you have a 270a cool and I see its not a cheap lyeing ebay one, so no need to have it bench tested. Ok so you would assume that 270a is enough for the estimated 250a, but its not. As you know, it only puts out ~100a at idle, thats NOwhere enough to keep what ever amount of batteries you have at full charge and unless your at a constant 2k rpm to get the full amount of amperage at all times, those batteries arent gonna hang and the above situation is evident and just inevitable. If you have a strong enough alt, 1 battery would suffice for daily and small sound offs. Multiple batteries just allow you to go longer before you have issues thus the reason multiple batteries are needed for competition. As the story goes above with multiple batteries you can probably go weeks before you see any symptoms (depending on how much you drive and bump) doesnt mean it solved anything, its just prolonging it.
Too bad you didnt get the XP series (I think it is) where the max output is a little low, but the idle output is close to max which IMO is more for your buck
Ok I'm done.
Problem is alternator, first thing you gotta do is find out how much amperage that amp pulls (take to a shop or repair shop like I did mine, that meter shows how many amps it draws) with that you'll know what size alt you need. The car comes stock with 100a alt, say your amp is pulling 150a (which is probably close if not less than what it truly draws), that means you need a minimum of 250a alt. You say you have a 270a cool and I see its not a cheap lyeing ebay one, so no need to have it bench tested. Ok so you would assume that 270a is enough for the estimated 250a, but its not. As you know, it only puts out ~100a at idle, thats NOwhere enough to keep what ever amount of batteries you have at full charge and unless your at a constant 2k rpm to get the full amount of amperage at all times, those batteries arent gonna hang and the above situation is evident and just inevitable. If you have a strong enough alt, 1 battery would suffice for daily and small sound offs. Multiple batteries just allow you to go longer before you have issues thus the reason multiple batteries are needed for competition. As the story goes above with multiple batteries you can probably go weeks before you see any symptoms (depending on how much you drive and bump) doesnt mean it solved anything, its just prolonging it.
Too bad you didnt get the XP series (I think it is) where the max output is a little low, but the idle output is close to max which IMO is more for your buck
Ok I'm done.
06-19-12 | 02:09 PM
#22
Yea the batteries make the difference that you'll last longer before symptoms happen. However, say you 4 batteries (amount makes no difference) you're bumping around like normal no problems but because you alternator isnt fueling enough, when you park you dont have 4 full batteries, maybe closer to equivalent to 3. You come back to car start up and bump again doing the same ol daily thing still with no problems, then you park. Now you're parking with closer to the equivalent of 2 batteries so on and so on. Now you're back to the same place you were before you added batteries and from then on, you'll be wondering, "Why do my lights still dim with 4 batteries"...
Problem is alternator, first thing you gotta do is find out how much amperage that amp pulls (take to a shop or repair shop like I did mine, that meter shows how many amps it draws) with that you'll know what size alt you need. The car comes stock with 100a alt, say your amp is pulling 150a (which is probably close if not less than what it truly draws), that means you need a minimum of 250a alt. You say you have a 270a cool and I see its not a cheap lyeing ebay one, so no need to have it bench tested. Ok so you would assume that 270a is enough for the estimated 250a, but its not. As you know, it only puts out ~100a at idle, thats NOwhere enough to keep what ever amount of batteries you have at full charge and unless your at a constant 2k rpm to get the full amount of amperage at all times, those batteries arent gonna hang and the above situation is evident and just inevitable. If you have a strong enough alt, 1 battery would suffice for daily and small sound offs. Multiple batteries just allow you to go longer before you have issues thus the reason multiple batteries are needed for competition. As the story goes above with multiple batteries you can probably go weeks before you see any symptoms (depending on how much you drive and bump) doesnt mean it solved anything, its just prolonging it.
Too bad you didnt get the XP series (I think it is) where the max output is a little low, but the idle output is close to max which IMO is more for your buck
Ok I'm done.
Problem is alternator, first thing you gotta do is find out how much amperage that amp pulls (take to a shop or repair shop like I did mine, that meter shows how many amps it draws) with that you'll know what size alt you need. The car comes stock with 100a alt, say your amp is pulling 150a (which is probably close if not less than what it truly draws), that means you need a minimum of 250a alt. You say you have a 270a cool and I see its not a cheap lyeing ebay one, so no need to have it bench tested. Ok so you would assume that 270a is enough for the estimated 250a, but its not. As you know, it only puts out ~100a at idle, thats NOwhere enough to keep what ever amount of batteries you have at full charge and unless your at a constant 2k rpm to get the full amount of amperage at all times, those batteries arent gonna hang and the above situation is evident and just inevitable. If you have a strong enough alt, 1 battery would suffice for daily and small sound offs. Multiple batteries just allow you to go longer before you have issues thus the reason multiple batteries are needed for competition. As the story goes above with multiple batteries you can probably go weeks before you see any symptoms (depending on how much you drive and bump) doesnt mean it solved anything, its just prolonging it.
Too bad you didnt get the XP series (I think it is) where the max output is a little low, but the idle output is close to max which IMO is more for your buck
Ok I'm done.
i guess i gota do some good research because this is really frustrating me now.
there has to be a solution- im really not consuming that much power (I think...) and i have some decent stuff to make it all work. so i know there has to be a solution.
the alternator is XP btw. =D
tonight im going to try and crunch some numbers and figure out what the alternator is putting out on average, the amps my battery has and what amperage my amplifiers are sucking up and take into consideration what our cars need to keep them running and figure out what im missing or need to add. i guess this is the only way, because like i said there has to be a solution and it cant be that difficult to fix. i also dont know if i could go through an entire battery in one ride lol. that would be some extremely hard bumping LOL.
this is really pissing me off though lol.
06-19-12 | 03:50 PM
#23
im on my phone, so this will be short. I have some thing to say about it all lol, but ill comment on the last part (for now ) in regards to using the whole battery... You'd be surprised
06-19-12 | 09:25 PM
#25
haha even better. i honestly dont remember. i bought this thing over a year ago and somewhat forgot the little details.
cant wait to ehar it lol.
afte some hard bumping my resting voltage for my battery under the hood. is always at 12+ (I dont remember a specific number because i never look for voltage afterwards but the cap in the trunk shows voltage and even after hard bumping ive never seen that thing below 12 volts, or id definitely notice. )
so maybe its not that im not getting enough voltage/amps cus i dont think my voltage dips that low its mostly just the crazy dimming that pisses me off. i used to have a stinger voltage meeter inside the car but i blew it out a few months ago so i havnt been able to keep track of power during rides and slumping sessions. il order one
afte some hard bumping my resting voltage for my battery under the hood. is always at 12+ (I dont remember a specific number because i never look for voltage afterwards but the cap in the trunk shows voltage and even after hard bumping ive never seen that thing below 12 volts, or id definitely notice. )
so maybe its not that im not getting enough voltage/amps cus i dont think my voltage dips that low its mostly just the crazy dimming that pisses me off. i used to have a stinger voltage meeter inside the car but i blew it out a few months ago so i havnt been able to keep track of power during rides and slumping sessions. il order one
06-20-12 | 03:16 AM
#28
its three in the morning and ive been going hard on quite a bit of reading and "research" regarding all this electrical stuff.
for the most part i was already familiar with it all but a refresher and further reading doesnt hurt.
the main thing from multiple readings was that the alternator powers EVERYTHING when the engine is running. the battery kicks when that alternator cant supply all the power that is demanded.
okay. simple and easy to understand. and mrjokster had already mentioned some of this.
so heres my new question: if the alt provides all the power why do we add extra/bigger batteries EVEN when we have h/o alts?
for example-
my alt is supposed to be 270 amps. to stay on the safe side, lets say its 240 amps. at 240 amps lets say our car uses 80% of the stock alt (which is about 90-100 i belive) so lets say the stock electrical needs 80amps of power to run smoothly. if i subctract 80 amps from the 240 amps that this thing is pumping out, i should still have 160 amps free for use. 160 amps should be plenty left to run my two amps directly off the alternator. not to mention if we also throw in the extra aid from the battery on top of the already supplied power- it should be more than enough. yet somehow for some damn reason i am still getting some harsh dimming.
so why do people running demanding electronics throw in the extra batteries even when they have h/o alternators? technically batteries are only used as a source of power when engine is off and the alternator is producing OR when alternator cant produce enough juice. this makes it sound like we know that our h/o alts can produce and so we have to give them help with batteries.
NOW im pissed. shtis not making sense.
for the most part i was already familiar with it all but a refresher and further reading doesnt hurt.
the main thing from multiple readings was that the alternator powers EVERYTHING when the engine is running. the battery kicks when that alternator cant supply all the power that is demanded.
okay. simple and easy to understand. and mrjokster had already mentioned some of this.
so heres my new question: if the alt provides all the power why do we add extra/bigger batteries EVEN when we have h/o alts?
for example-
my alt is supposed to be 270 amps. to stay on the safe side, lets say its 240 amps. at 240 amps lets say our car uses 80% of the stock alt (which is about 90-100 i belive) so lets say the stock electrical needs 80amps of power to run smoothly. if i subctract 80 amps from the 240 amps that this thing is pumping out, i should still have 160 amps free for use. 160 amps should be plenty left to run my two amps directly off the alternator. not to mention if we also throw in the extra aid from the battery on top of the already supplied power- it should be more than enough. yet somehow for some damn reason i am still getting some harsh dimming.
so why do people running demanding electronics throw in the extra batteries even when they have h/o alternators? technically batteries are only used as a source of power when engine is off and the alternator is producing OR when alternator cant produce enough juice. this makes it sound like we know that our h/o alts can produce and so we have to give them help with batteries.
NOW im pissed. shtis not making sense.
