Ex996

I think you should get the Benz.

dseag2

JimB,

I recently traded an Audi A6 4.2 Quattro for a Lexus SC430. (Yes, I'm in the wrong forum, but I'm also interested in the new GS.) I'm sure as an M-B owner you would say the Mercedes has more "panache", but the Audi interiors rival anything in the market, and if you want something that hauls and sticks to the road, you can't beat a V-8 and Quattro.

My observations... both cars are beautiful but in completely different ways. The Lexus is "softer"... suspension, leather, etc., but I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm not taking it to the track... I'm using it to commute. Yes, sometimes I miss my Audi, but here's what I don't miss:

-Constantly dirty front wheels from brake dust
-Squeaky brakes
-Inferior service
-No loaner cars
-BOSE stereo (vs. Mark Levinson)

Out of the above list, the decision-maker for me was the quality, reliability, and service after the sale. I traded in an L-Tuned GS300 for the Audi but would never again go back to German cars. The little bit of handling edge and the Teutonic feel wasn't enough to convince me. I would highly recommend Lexus. Happy car shopping!

DSeag2

JimB

Don't I know what you're talking about! Although I do get good service. I don't get a loaner at my local dealer 'cuz I didn't buy from their I'm happy with my self-installed Euro-spec German made Becker headunit/CD player/changer controller

Gojirra99

You should just get the car you want, and not just "settle" for something else. From reading the posts, the Benz is what you want, and you should buy the car you can live with.

For me, I will never consider a Benz until they improve their overall quality to a level that's close to Lexus level.
I have aquaintances and relatives who bought brand new Mercedes ( S class, E class and CLK's, no ML's )the last few years. Having to bring their brand new cars back to the dealer repeatedly for both major and minor problems within the first year is not an uncommon experience among them. To me that's totally unacceptable considering the premium price they charge for their vehicles. Somehow, many Mercedes owners have learnt to live with this.

I have test driven the new E with my mother and is actually quite impressed with its ride and dynamics. It's a very well balanced car with a sleek, pleasant design. My mother(love the panorama roof) would have bought it if not for the quality and reliability concerns.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

you only get loaner from them if you buy the car from them?! that's lame

RON430

Get the Benz. The GS 430 base price is now roughly 48K while the E 500 base is roughly 55K. When the new GS comes out, it will add a few K to the base undoubtedly and there won't be many deals around.

For many of us who have left either BMW or MB (and who may go back one day, who knows?) the reason for the GS was that it presented a superior product, regardless of price. Once the price was figured in, the decision became much simpler. I believe the dash you posted was of an S class (correct?) and I do not find the German fascination with dozens of small switches, buttons, and ***** to be ideal. I much prefer the GS dash where there is a minimum of demand on the driver to do the simple tasks one does while driving that may take your attention from the road. There are some on this site that will disagree with me as they feel that the "luxury" or "image" of the car is presented in how spectacular the light show is from the dash but having grown up in simpler times, I want the controls of the auto to intrude on driving as little as possible, and here Lexus has it just about right. While I am also a pilot, I do not want an auto dash to look like an aircraft instrument panel, video game, or space capsule, or combinations of the above. I am not sure what Lexus will do with the next generation GS but I hope they leave the controls and ***** adult sized and spaced for safe operation and minimal intrusion on the driver. This current German preoccupation with technology for the sake of technology leaves me more and more unimpressed.

All in all, you mention that you can afford the E and say that it is most definitely the car you WANT, but you are having a hard time justiftying the 10K extra in price. While most of us here are quite taken with our Lexuses (Lexi?) I think you would find that most of us would also say that if you can afford it and it really is what you want, go for it. Not sure how long you keep cars (without trying to start any flames I am having a hard time understanding how after seven months, you realize the C is too small for your needs. The C and 3 series are far too small for my needs and I didn't have to buy one to find that out.) but if the E does it for you, the difference in price could be a lot more justifiable when you look at it over the multiple years of ownership and the MB resale must be factored in. As for the next GS, there is a good deal of speculation here as to what it will be like but overall I suspect it will be a Lexus and not a bimmer or a benz. That was not meant to be a flame either but to those of us who appreciate better handling, I suspect we know that Lexus is not going to go after us because their average customer is after luxury and serenity and not much involvement. My guess is that they will keep that approach as much as some of us here would like to see them change. Look at it this way, at least MB makes the E. If there was no alternative you would be stuck. Just get the E and we will all hope it does for you what you want.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i thought that's the new e class. i see something like a clock on the left most "circle" of the dash guage area, that's a good indication of the new e class. i am not sure if the new s class has that.

and yes, i agree with ron on the bottons. for me when i am driving, i spend my time on the road and i don't want to get distracted just to find the botton on the dash. i like the lexus designs coz' you always find a clean dash with not so many bottons. on european cars like bimmer, mb, and audi, there are always so many bottons that it start to confuse me.

RON430

romil - I think you are right now that I look at it closer. Can't say I am too up on MB dashes, after I pulled out of a MB sale about a year ago I haven't really looked much. But the CL I had on order, which I believe had the same dash as the S, was just not what I expected for the money so I backed out and that dash was a bit different than the posted picture. As for the new E, when my wife pronounced it a Taurus/Sable look alike, it is hard to not think of that when I see one.

When I look at the Lexus dash in the GS, I just can't find much to dislike. Everything is there with no muss or fuss. As for the clock, I like it up high, I don't want to look at the radio display for time. One thing I would never have guessed is that goofy direction display in the mirror is actually quite useful and Lexus unobtrusive, as always.

andyray

In general, I don't a agree with many of your original "complaints" about the GS. Most of these are just differences in opinon. I would recommend you go drive more cars. Beware of Mercedes bathwater!! Although it does taste good some of the time, the stuff is addictive in bad way.

I ended up with a brand new C240 with 20 miles on it day before yesterday. (loaner from MB dealership) Here's my quick take on it....

C240 drives like a car at least 3x the size. It just ain't sporty at all. The body roll is almost SUV-like. However, it does feel "heavy". I don't see what should be emulated here. Maybe there's a performance package I'm missing. FYI: My preference for handling and ride is probably close to a BMW performance package.

The "power" seats are only partially powerered, and it needs an additonal "way". I was frustrated since there's no way to get the bottom front of the seat to support your legs.

About half the time I would start the car the display would read "1 malfunction". I could never figure out what the malfunction was, or what I was supposed to do about it. (oh well, it's a loaner, drive on...) After low-tech investigation, it appeared that the parking lights only worked on the right side.

Overall a decent car, but I don't see much worth emulating.

I see what you're saying about the dash layout of the GS, it is somewhat dated. I would remind you that you're comparing a '98 GS to a '01 C-Class or a '02 E-Class. If you compared the GS to the previous generation MB's, I'm pretty confident that the GS would take the prize. To go apples to apples you need to look at the new gen Lexus vehicles. The new ES, LS, and SC can give you an idea of how the new GS might look.

As far as Service goes, in Orlando, the MB dealer sucks. Real bad. In general, Lexus stomps MB in Service and reliability.

<from a totally different perspective>
If you want a Mercedes (and it sounds like you do), buy a Mercedes. $45k is a lot to pay for a substitute.

I purchased my GS because it was exactly what I wanted. Also, my decision to go with Lexus seems to get even better with each 10k miles I put on the car...

whitels

JimB,

Obviously you need to get the Benz based on your statements above. If you get the GS, you would always wonder about the E class!

That happened to me. I've always been a sports car guy. The time came when I had to buy a car and then I chose the LS4 - thinking that maybe it's about time for me to calm down a bit. (And maybe- I thought I was trying to be like Bill Gates who, with all the cars in his garage, still cruises around the Redmond/Seattle area everyday in a Lexus LS! LOL)

It didn't take long and I traded in the LS for the GS. I'm a happy man.

I'm one of the few people who enjoyed the MB test drive called E-motions event at the El Toro Air Base. Half day of full throttle, full-braking, full-everything to the limit test drive of their newly introduced E320 and E500.

I am most impressed with the E500. I think I even put a review here somewhere of my impressions. But what caught my attention was for the price of it, a navigation system was not even available, not even a CD-based system. At that time, news was a DVD system is still being developed. But not to worry, it will soon appear in the market. I really liked the lines of the car but someone commented that the rear end looked like a Crown Vic! I don't care, to me it still looks good.

But would I buy it? Probably not. You see, I'm one of those folks who want to get the best for the money. And I'm also one of those folks who would resist paying an additional $10K (versus the GS4) to get the 3-pointed marquee. Assuming quality and performance of the two cars are the same, then why would I pay extra for the MB brand. I certainly don't feel I have a need for the "MB owner" status. Reality, however, is that the quality of the two brands are not the same which makes my decision-making all the more easier.

But this is a free world my friend. Get the car that will make you feel great. Sometimes, even if you add all the likes and subtract all the dislikes in a certain car, you would still be most happy with what your heart tells you. Car buying is emotional sometimes and you are just gonna have to submit to it to be happy. Your statements above hinted on a hair of emotional attachment to the MB and I think that's a pretty strong message for you to not go the Lexus route but instead get the "E" class. After all- you're the one who will write the check on it

Good luck on any decision you make in the future.

whitels

LexFather

JimB, may I suggest coming to one of our meets to see our GSs stock or with mods with no sales pressure so you can take your time and check the car out?

I think Benz interiors are too busy for me. Let me tell you about Lexus cars having the same buttons. When you drive different ones, they all feel at home and you don't get frustrated looking for what you want cause they are similar.

That 4 spoke steering wheel does not belong on a sports sedan.
Too many lines for me, the vents, the controls, blah. The wood running the width of the dash gives it a wider look.
The new E looks like a Japanese car, not a German car IMO (not that it's a bad thing).
A 65-69k car loaded?

Don't get me wrong, I love the previous E, and the new E is an absolute winner. But for possibly more unsceduled maintenance, notorious dealer neglect and a price 10k more, it does not offer a reasonable argument to me.

Concerning the GS dash, well it was designed back in 1996/1997 as the car debuted in 1998 so it is old. But so many cars have copied it. The Acura TL with the wood running down the sides of the center console (though theirs is fake). The Altima with the 3 pod gauge. NO ONE can copy the OPTIRON gauges though

VIPGS400

I came over from previously owning 8 benzos including a 00 CLK 430 cab fully modified by Lorinser, a 99 and 00 E55, ML55 and various E and C classes. I love the 3 pointed star and the on-the-road prestige you get from owning a fine European automobile, but what I cant deal with is the frequent trips to the dealer. In August of last year, I traded in my ML55 for a GS400 and believe me I am one happy camper. Mods are cheaper and easier to find, the NAV is like 2000% better, as the benzo you need to deal with a disc and a touchless screen. The Lexus nav is the most accurate and easy to use system out there, as my wife still owns an E430, I know its a pain in the *** to use.

The HIDs on the Lexus is much brighter, the seats I feel are actually more comfortable, much more leg room vs. the E class since im well over 6 ft tall. Overall, Im very happy with it. My main concern was that with all the Benzos I had, Im always at the dealer. Yes, given that its still under warranty and the dealer covers the rental, but its mainly the inconvenience of keep having to go back for the oddest reasons. On the CLK cab it was the convertible mechanism getting stuck and I couldnt close the top, the E55's navi didnt work and my brake light keeps going out, and the ML55's climate control was always blowing hot air, ahahah. Since owning the Lex, Ive been back to the dealer once for an oil change and to pick up an extra CD magazine, plus they washed the car and cleaned it inside and out, with benzo you need to ask and then most of the time they cant do it right away. So you can say Im definitely converted. I think next up would be either a SC or LS 430.

dseag2

JimB,

You've really gotten a lot of input on this one! I have one final thought to add to your purchase decision...

Since their inception, Lexus has tended to emulate M-B (luxury) and Infiniti has tended to target BMW (performance). A Lexus dealer once told me this, and if you think about it it makes sense. The GS was clearly designed with the former E-Class in mind and the current LS430 mimics the previous S-Class. All-in-all, Lexus simply lets the Germans come out with the new technology and then they perfect it, making for a more reliable automobile.

With that in mind, there might be a decent chance the next generation GS will follow the cues of the current E-Class. If I were you, I would wait and see. I absolutely agree with others in this forum that you should buy the car you truly WANT. However, you could kick yourself if you buy the E-Class and the new GS turns out to be that car! Just my opinion.

DSeag2

ChrisK

iTrader: (1)

JimB,

You are better of buying MB.

My personal feeling about the new E interior:

1. Climate control - reminds me of 95 S500 - sucks.
2. Navigation system - will they ever get it right - sucks.
3. Stereo - will never be ML or Nakamichi - sucks.
4. Cheap controls for the back seat - sucks.

Exterior:
1. Having C, E, S look a like - sucks.

And I would never "settle" for MB if I can get Lexus.