Please help, what should I do?
02-17-03, 08:26 AM
#1
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Please help, what should I do?
I just bought a '99 GS400 from the Lexus dealership here and while detailing the car I found evidence that one side of the car had some paint work done to it (ever so slight clearcoat on some of the rubber molding where it had been masked). Also the front fender on the same side does not have a sticker on it with the cars VIN and TINY nicks in the pain on the bolts of the fender in the engine bay. Looks they, or the previous owner, might have had the fender replaced.
I asked the salesman specifically if the car has ever been in an accident or repainted because I saw some orange peel that seemed a little out of place in a section of the car. He said it had never been repainted or in an accident.
I know I should have gone over it with a fine toothed comb before the purchase but I missed it... What should I do, do I have any recourse with their misrepresentation as the fact that it had been repainted/hit would drop the value of the car over one that had never been painted/hit?
I asked the salesman specifically if the car has ever been in an accident or repainted because I saw some orange peel that seemed a little out of place in a section of the car. He said it had never been repainted or in an accident.
I know I should have gone over it with a fine toothed comb before the purchase but I missed it... What should I do, do I have any recourse with their misrepresentation as the fact that it had been repainted/hit would drop the value of the car over one that had never been painted/hit?
02-17-03, 08:50 AM
#3
Well, the previous owner might have gotten into an accident and maybe thought it wasn't serious enough to file a police report or report it to insurance. So he may have just replaced it himself...there's no way a dealer could know that if they weren't told specifically by the owner.
Was there anything in a carfax report?
Was there anything in a carfax report?
Last edited by Tranman; 02-17-03 at 08:51 AM.
02-17-03, 07:30 PM
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It's not a major problem as the repairs seem to have been done ok for the most part. It's more the fact that when I was negotiating the purchase price, I was led to believe the car was never in an accident or repainted.
The resale/trade-in value of the car is negativly effected by the fact that it in fact *was* repainted and looks to have been in an accident. Regardless of the quality of the repairs, the value of the car is negatively effected. In effect money taken directly out of my pocket should I ever sell/trade the car.
Right now its a paper loss, but will turn into a real one down the road.
The resale/trade-in value of the car is negativly effected by the fact that it in fact *was* repainted and looks to have been in an accident. Regardless of the quality of the repairs, the value of the car is negatively effected. In effect money taken directly out of my pocket should I ever sell/trade the car.
Right now its a paper loss, but will turn into a real one down the road.
02-18-03, 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Tranman
there's no way a dealer could know that if they weren't told specifically by the owner.
Was there anything in a carfax report?
there's no way a dealer could know that if they weren't told specifically by the owner.
Was there anything in a carfax report?
C'mon guys we are talking professionals here.O btw is your car a Certified Lexus or just a used one ? The reason i asked is,if it's a Certified car then you can definately pursue it further and trust me Lexus takes it's certified program very seriously 
Anyway i just bought a Certified LX-470 two days ago ( still awaiting delivery) and though i did check all the Vin tags and apparently no paint work that i can pick up,yet one can still miss it.Hope it helps.Later, Yasir
02-18-03, 03:20 PM
#7
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The laws vary from state to state as to what dealers have to disclose. I think here in NC, if the car has been in an accident that cost less that %25 of the vehicles value to correct, they do not have to inform you of that.
Now you say they told you it hadn't been involved in an accident; that'll be tough to prove if it was only verbal.
If it really bothers you, take it back and demand a refund.
Sooner than later.
Now you say they told you it hadn't been involved in an accident; that'll be tough to prove if it was only verbal.
If it really bothers you, take it back and demand a refund.
Sooner than later.
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02-18-03, 08:22 PM
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I took the car back to the dealer, they said they would try to wet sand some of the orange peel and take off some of the overspray on the rubber part of the chrome trim (above the doors). I'm just worried that the clearcoat will start to flake/peel from where it meets the rubber since they did not remove the trim before clearcoating and replace it afterwards.
A friend at a body shop told me that the door had been replaced as well...
I have spoken to an attorney friend of mine, he told me I did have some recourse under the Deceptive Trade Act but the best thing was to try to work it out with the dealer.
I do feel that the dealership is trying to help by offering to do some work to correct the obvious things wrong with the repairs, but it still doesn't effect the "diminished value" that the accident caused. Should I be asking for a check from the dealer? I'm pretty sure they have already wholesaled my trade away so I don't know how I could reverse the transaction even if I wanted to (I don't want to).
tranman: There was nothing in the carfax report other than it was a leased vehicle.
yasir: The car is a Certified Pre-Owned car. I have not contacted Lexus HQ about this yet, I'm trying to determine what is reasonable to ask for before I do that, as well as give the dealership a chance to make it right.
A friend at a body shop told me that the door had been replaced as well...
I have spoken to an attorney friend of mine, he told me I did have some recourse under the Deceptive Trade Act but the best thing was to try to work it out with the dealer.
I do feel that the dealership is trying to help by offering to do some work to correct the obvious things wrong with the repairs, but it still doesn't effect the "diminished value" that the accident caused. Should I be asking for a check from the dealer? I'm pretty sure they have already wholesaled my trade away so I don't know how I could reverse the transaction even if I wanted to (I don't want to).
tranman: There was nothing in the carfax report other than it was a leased vehicle.
yasir: The car is a Certified Pre-Owned car. I have not contacted Lexus HQ about this yet, I'm trying to determine what is reasonable to ask for before I do that, as well as give the dealership a chance to make it right.
02-18-03, 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by Dex
Now you say they told you it hadn't been involved in an accident; that'll be tough to prove if it was only verbal.
Now you say they told you it hadn't been involved in an accident; that'll be tough to prove if it was only verbal.
I know it's verbal, I will probably write a written complaint to Lexus about it just to document the fact on my end.
02-19-03, 01:15 AM
#10
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Sales people (even Lexus ones) are ALL underhanded....they KNEW that it was in an accident...take it back and demand your money back. That's complete BS that they try to sell it to you like that...screw the orange peel and what not...get your money back and get your car back. It's their responsiblity. I hate underhanded car STEALERSHIPS. If they don't take it back, I would pursue legal action immediately AND I would call Lexus customer car and don't give in. They will try to "warm you over" with some crap...stand your ground and keep bugging them.
This type of crap is UNACCEPTABLE no matter what. And even if they offer you some money back, don't take it. DOUBLE or TRIPLE the value as that is what the real "worth" of the offer is. They will do anything to get out of it without paying what's due. That is their nature. I wish Lexus could regulate that....
I was at a Lexus dealership a while ago and I was looking at a 1st Generation GS and the salemen "forgot" to mention the QUARTER PANEL damage that was done..."oops"...
I feel better buying a used car from a private party...at least most of the people I've run into have been honest...I have yet to go to a dealership where the sales department is honest....
This type of crap is UNACCEPTABLE no matter what. And even if they offer you some money back, don't take it. DOUBLE or TRIPLE the value as that is what the real "worth" of the offer is. They will do anything to get out of it without paying what's due. That is their nature. I wish Lexus could regulate that....
I was at a Lexus dealership a while ago and I was looking at a 1st Generation GS and the salemen "forgot" to mention the QUARTER PANEL damage that was done..."oops"...
I feel better buying a used car from a private party...at least most of the people I've run into have been honest...I have yet to go to a dealership where the sales department is honest....
02-19-03, 09:47 AM
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Like Manaray said,return the car ( definately ) and ask for your money back.If for some reason they don't return the money then they tell them they would have to find you an another similar car that's never been in an accident.O don't forget to mention them that you won't mind pursuing it to
#1) Lexus or
#2)- Legal option.
Later, Yasir ( Hoping when my LX-470 gets delivered today doesn't have any evidence of accidents )
#1) Lexus or
#2)- Legal option.
Later, Yasir ( Hoping when my LX-470 gets delivered today doesn't have any evidence of accidents
)
02-20-03, 11:05 AM
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I called Lexus Customer Assistance today, the person I spoke to said they would look into it for me and call me back next week.
While the dealership has appeared to be helpful, I wanted to go on record with Lexus Corporate with my complaint. I'll let you all know as things change.
Definately not the buying experience I was expecting. Avoiding this sort of thing was the entire reason for buying a CPO car from the dealership in the first place... Live and learn I guess.
Yasir: Already took it to #1, number 2 is on the table for sure. Here's what I've found out while researching the Deceptive Trade Practices Act in Texas:
While the dealership has appeared to be helpful, I wanted to go on record with Lexus Corporate with my complaint. I'll let you all know as things change.
Definately not the buying experience I was expecting. Avoiding this sort of thing was the entire reason for buying a CPO car from the dealership in the first place... Live and learn I guess.
Yasir: Already took it to #1, number 2 is on the table for sure. Here's what I've found out while researching the Deceptive Trade Practices Act in Texas:
The DTPA created a new cause of action for consumers called "misrepresentation"> Misrepresentation goes not to the issue of whether there is a promise to repair, replace or refund the purchase price, but rather whether a representation was made before the sale that was, in fact, false. It does not matter that the representation was made unknowingly, only that it was made. The representation can either be written or oral, and the consumers rights under the DTPA can not be contractually waived.
In a DTPA misrepresentation case, the judge or jury (whichever was chosen to decide the facts of the case) will then listen to the evidence provided by the parties. There will usually be a disagreement as to what was said with the consumer claiming the product was verbally represented to be "in good condition", "excellent", "like new" ,"or possibly "dependable transportation". The seller will usually deny that such representations were made. If it is found that such representations were made, then it is up to the finder of fact (judge or jury) to determine whether the representations were false.
In a DTPA misrepresentation case, the judge or jury (whichever was chosen to decide the facts of the case) will then listen to the evidence provided by the parties. There will usually be a disagreement as to what was said with the consumer claiming the product was verbally represented to be "in good condition", "excellent", "like new" ,"or possibly "dependable transportation". The seller will usually deny that such representations were made. If it is found that such representations were made, then it is up to the finder of fact (judge or jury) to determine whether the representations were false.
Last edited by Stealther; 02-20-03 at 11:10 AM.
02-20-03, 07:52 PM
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I have no doubt that Lexus will definately look into this matter and will try to resolve it with out creating much fuss.
Well my '99 LX-470 was delivered to me yesterday and honestly i can't describe the feelings
The LX is perfect,all vin tags there where they are suppose to be and i have looked every where for signs of spray and nothing noticed.Anyway hope things work out for you now.
Later, Yasir
Well my '99 LX-470 was delivered to me yesterday and honestly i can't describe the feelings
The LX is perfect,all vin tags there where they are suppose to be and i have looked every where for signs of spray and nothing noticed.Anyway hope things work out for you now.Later, Yasir
02-21-03, 10:54 AM
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Don't have a great deal to add to this other than my opinion that car salesman, even Lexus ones, are not necessarily a higher life form. If you don't mind me asking, what was the final price and how many miles did this car have on it?
Many of the legal protections that you think you might have are just not there when you really get down to posibly taking it to court, and car dealers are very well aware of these issues as well. I notice in your quote from the Texas law quite a few good things for the consumer but that last sentence:
"If it is found that such representations were made, then it is up to the finder of fact (judge or jury) to determine whether the representations were false."
means that there has to be a finding of fact about the misrepresentations. They point out that verbal misrepresentations can be used to assign someone liability but you still have to prove the misrepresentation was made. If the dealer has a history of misrepresentations, could find out in BBB complaints, that might help your case, but this is a lot of work and aggravation. Cars can receive damage before original delivery and be repaired (funny that CarFax didn't show anything). Finally, it is obvious that this experience has put a very sour taste in your mouth. If they make some sort of settlement, will you regret it a year from now if there is some hidden mechanical damage that may show up in vibrations or unusual tire wear that never goes away? Good luck.
Many of the legal protections that you think you might have are just not there when you really get down to posibly taking it to court, and car dealers are very well aware of these issues as well. I notice in your quote from the Texas law quite a few good things for the consumer but that last sentence:
"If it is found that such representations were made, then it is up to the finder of fact (judge or jury) to determine whether the representations were false."
means that there has to be a finding of fact about the misrepresentations. They point out that verbal misrepresentations can be used to assign someone liability but you still have to prove the misrepresentation was made. If the dealer has a history of misrepresentations, could find out in BBB complaints, that might help your case, but this is a lot of work and aggravation. Cars can receive damage before original delivery and be repaired (funny that CarFax didn't show anything). Finally, it is obvious that this experience has put a very sour taste in your mouth. If they make some sort of settlement, will you regret it a year from now if there is some hidden mechanical damage that may show up in vibrations or unusual tire wear that never goes away? Good luck.
02-21-03, 05:02 PM
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Stealther, sorry about your bad news, that really does defeat the dealer purpose!! Everyone should beware of Carfax, because it only reports RECORDED accidents. Many people (especially in major cities), crack their car up to hell, have their friend fix it, and CARFAX is never the wiser. I noticed you said you looked over the car before you purchased, it is funny that a new car can totally cloud your vision and judgement!! I would ask them to trade this car for a vehicle of equal value from dealer inventory, the reason being, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT KIND OF DAMAGE WAS DONE.
Good luck man
Good luck man