RON430

Sorry, I just pay cash for the GS's so I wasn't thinking in terms of down and payments. And taxes do increase with the cost of the vehicle so the extra price is the gift that keeps on giving, just like interest payments on a more expensive car. A rough handle here, if you could get it for sticker, is 10% for tax and license although both will go up shortly. So an E55 optioned the way you are, would be about $93K in the garage here, if you could get it for sticker, which I doubt. My guess is that is still going to be the better part of $30K more than the new GS would cost so there really is no comparison going on here. I think you did the right thing for your priorities. Exclusivity is nice, my wife and I have been thinking about the new Maser for a weekend car for the same price as the E55, but I think a medium twin is more in my future. The chances of Lexus making an $88K GS are less than zero. Now, back to relevant comments on the next GS.

RON430

Have a feeling you are right on the pricing. Whether they want to move the price up or not, if you read most of the comments on this thread, they don't have to. I firmly believe that people are not looking for the next GS to be $85K, or any version of it. As for a halo effect, we might be able to convince ourselves that bimmer and merc are responding to Lexus but my feeling is that they are playing their own game against each other, at least with the limited production models. How many of each model they make, what profits they generate, and more importantly, how many straight five's and E's are sold because of the M/AMG, are all very low numbers.

Now on the exclusivity factor if you could just hire someone to drive your car so when the adoring masses can't take their eyes off it when it drives by, you could then be sure and tell them that you (or you and the bank) "own" it. And if you never got in it, drove it anywhere, or parked it anywhere, there is no damage/carjacking concern (helps keep those ridiculously low insurance premiums on M/AMG in the cellar). The best of all possible worlds.

LexFather

QUite frankly, they don't sell any V-8s. Lexus, BMW or Benz compated to the 6s (or diesals overseas). We are rare company.

ThemisN

Ok now this is definitely getting ridiculous. Despite even noting it in a previous post, you need to throw out the difference in taxes...say it is even 25k dif between the cars..thats what? 1.5k in taxes difference? BIG DEAL...a DEAL BREAKER im sure.

Now..Like i also said..i understand with you bein on the west coast that its hard to get cars at sticker...but on the east coast it can be done fairly easily. Ill giv eu 2 dealers right now if u want. Wait..no..3.

The exclusivity is not for anyone else either. It is for me. I feel a car, after i buy it, mod it..whatever..will define your personality. It becomes part of you..esp when you drive it a lot. THe e55 will be a daily driver for me. Something i will look forward to driving every single mile i have it. I just dont like following the crowd. Thats why most of us here at club lexus mod our cars...bc we arent your regular lexus driver...we want to define the car to match us. It can't be wrong to want a car that is closer to what i strive for with less modding and becoming more exclusive in numbers. Funny i never heard of anyone whining to someone about getting a driver to take them around in an m5.

Anyway...most of my experiences here on clublexus were great. A great source of information. Since i stopped working on the car when i got it back from it getting stolen, i havent been visiting anywhere near as much..but that goes with the territory. Hey..if it wasnt for this board, i wouldve never even looked for my velodyne subs which are still sitting in the boxes...now just waiting for the e55. Now...i just dont think ill ever find as useful a group on the internet as there is here but for benzes...oh well...

RON430

I think that's obvious. We all justify our purchases in our own minds. Just as the E55 is worth it to you, the 40% premium we are talking about over a next gen GS won't be for many people. So be happy, you got exactly what you want and a car that you know will keep you happy for six or seven years. The purchases of passion are the best. When you sit down and say, I'll pay cash, say $93K with tax and license over seven years (at least no interest to figure), $13,285 a year with out including ANY other expenses, that's $1107 a month, or $37 a day to have it in your garage, well, you know where that goes.

And if someone opts to not spend that amount, are they any less a car enthusiast? Are they any less proud of their cars? Do they get less pleasure from modding? Of course not. So, like I said, be happy, you got what you want. Now let's get on with the issue of that next gen GS for the rest of us that aren't going out to get an E55. Hard to figure how that got in here anyway.

doug_999

I think you guys all forget that the GS430, E500, 540, and A6 4.2 are rare cars. Lexus, MB, BMW, and Audi sell a LOT more GS300s, E320s, 525/530, and A6 3.0s (even 2.7s). The production rate on all of these V8 cars is low because people just don't purchase $60K V8 cars in mass. Personally I don't see very many of any of these cars on the roads up here in Chicago.

We keep talking/comparing the GS430 to the M5 and E55. We need to keep the comparison at the E500 and 540 both of which have been updated (Oct/Nov) for the 5-series. Also both of these cars (E500 and 540i) have many new features and options that the GS just doesn't have.

So full circle, back to the beginning of this thread, the GS is in need of an update and if Lexus is listening
1. We would like to keep it $60K or less loaded please
2. Those of us up here in the North sure would like AWD and would gladly pay $2-$3K for it.
3. Keep the good stereo and Nav
4. Offer a sport suspension please - you could even mimic Audi and make the sports seats optional if you had to but I don't think it is necessary.
5. The performance could be tweaked by simply making the trans more responsive and/or the car lighter. 0-60 is 6 seconds is fine, just make it feel better.
6. Can we have some of the features I miss so much from my 540? One turn start, rain sensing wipers, three (or even two) stage heated seats, integrated phone, trunk release on the outside of the car, Xenon headlights (the current HIDs just don't do it), and a trip computer.
7. and remember #1, we want it under $60K please

Doug

PS- feel free to add your requests to the above

LexFather

I mean, for 76K the stats for the E55 seriously speak for themselves.

What 12 piston brakes
476hp
0-60 in low 4s
0-100 under 10 seconds
1/4 mile in the 12s
It accelerates basically as fast as any car except the Enzo, Murchialago, F-1, at ANY SPEED
Sits 4
Beautiful styling (subjective)

I don't think even modded GSs can mess with it. It's a serious acceleration beast at 4200lbs.

LexFather

You know, Edmunds got a 0-60 sprint in 5.5 for the GS 400 but I'll go by the 5.7 by Motor Trend. If the GS was a MANUAL, that should knock off 1/2 a tick, no? So a low 5 sec car is possible if the car were a manual?

Orbit9

Well, E55 is great but the V8 is supercharged. Even though a supercharged GS V8 probably won't outrun the E55, it will come pretty close. I think someone mentioned before that he has a supercharged or turbocharged GS with 500hp? I really hope the new V8 for the GS will be a lot more powerful than the current version, and may be Lexus should come up with a good supercharger for the V8 also.

RON430

Hey Doug, you bring up an absolutely great point. I think we naturally have spent a lot of time on the next gen V8 GS. What about the six cylinder version. And please for all you with piston envy, we are talking about the car that will generate most of the GS sales and compete with the 530, E320 and A6 3.0 so leave the M's, AMG's and S's out. There may not be too many people here that have both but I just find myself in that position. My wife really loves her GS3 and I find the performance to be very good, that straight six is a honey. Even though we just put bilstein sports on it, the shocks didn't seem anywhere near as awful as the ones that came on my GS430. To tell you the truth I could live with modest if any performance increases but I would like to see mileage go up. I don't have very good numbers but it isn't all that much different than the V8. The big difference is that playing with the V8 can seriously erode mpg while the GS3 doesn't ever get that bad but I would just like to see a bit more mileage from the six cylinder version.

Mr Johnson

1SICKLEX: I mostly agree with you but don't get caught up in just the stats. The 8 piston brakes sound great but they don't stop the car as well one would expect and darn near everyone has either complained or at least commented about the feel of the brakes. Beyond that I had a very hard time justifying why I would move into a car that is ultimately smaller and has no real feature advantage (at the base price point). Option it up and 80-83K is a more likely spend. Now if those were included in the base price... well then a sale may well have been made to a certain Mr Johnson.

As for you last line... I'd love the chance to play with one but have not yet had that opportunity.

S55inPA

hey everyone,

one thing that MB seems to have over other manufacturers is engines.
they seem to have an endless supply of different sizes . Also they seem
to develope new ones on a regular basis. supposedly the supercharged engines
in the AMG models will only be around for 3 years before they move to a 6litre plus size pushing 600hp.

my expectations on the next GS are these....most likely no awd(lexus has a lot of suv's to cover), more overall content (like the new rx330), and a top price around 60000. i really feel this car is important to Lexus. even though they don't match the germans with the high performance models they have to make sure that the image of the brand doesn't shrink in comparison to their european competitors. the high end cars get a lot of press and give the manufacture prestige in the publics eye. remember how Acura was hailed when they first came out...now they are not even on the radar screen. i think lexus could face the same problem if they don't reach a little higher with their new offerings.

LexusPride

I disagree. Remember Lexus is the No. 1 luxury carmaker in the US, taking only 9 years to overtake 2 companies with a combined 150+ years in the industry and neither is closing the gap. They are losing sales to Lexus because of quality and reliability, and both have more cars in their stables to boot. People need to realize that Lexus can't overnite just be everything to everyone, hell BMW and MB only started making Ms and AMGs only a short amount of time ago, and they have alot more experience in the industry. Alot of people are already saying that the new 5 and E class didn't make a big enough leap, so why all the pressure for the GS to ?? I mean, Lexus is already the leader, expanding their lead more each year, and the other 2 haven't come up with any solutions to change that. Lexus could play it safe with the new GS and they'll still be ahead overall.

RON430

LexusPride - Some people posting here have a GS3, some have a GS4, some have both, some have neither. It certainly enters into my thinking when looking at the posts and responses.

S55inPA

hey guys,

i don't think sales numbers tell the entire story here. remember Chevrolet sells a lot more vehicles than both Lexus, MB, and BMW combined. what does that mean...Chevrolets are a better vehicle than a Lexus etc. ? not at all. basically in my opinion...and this is my opinion guys...price point is the deciding factor in sales volume. look at McDonalds...nobody sells more hamburgers than them.....are they the best hamburgers..heck no. but price matters to 9 out of 10 people.

also...just because i don't own a gs doesn't mean that my opinion is without value. the gs is a great car. my own brother owns one and loves it. when evaluating where Lexus future lies the gs plays a major part. midsize 4 door sedans are the mainstay of most automobile manufacturers. to be fair Lexus has been riding on it's suv's and rebadged toyotas(es's) for most of it's sales volume. in my opinion to be a top notch luxury brand you have to make exciting sedans and coupes. i feel the current Ls disappointed a lot people. sure it's bullet proof but it is very very bland. this is the flagship of the brand. it should make more of a statement. the gs is Lexus most exciting car. if it turns out like the Ls(vanilla) what then???
i really feel the next generation is going to be great in regards to mechanicals. the sheet metal is where the problems can show up. for some reason it seems that the japanese don't know how to lead in this department.

one last point...even the es's are very bland and sedate. right now the most excitement seems to be with the suv's. they equal or exceed most of their competitors. isn't that what they should be doing with their sedans also???