J.P.

"if it turns out like the Ls(vanilla) what then???
i really feel the next generation is going to be great in regards to mechanicals. the sheet metal is where the problems can show up. for some reason it seems that the japanese don't know how to lead in this department. "


I think to many people misinterpret the look.

People who want performance see vanilla, although I like performance, I see elegance and class.

I am not saying other automakers don't have class or elegance, but each automaker has it's look, for example BMW seems to carry a more sport look even in it's larger sedans. Lexus has it's market place, they will not try to be everything to everyone.

I believe the LS is an outstanding car. Very classy and timeless look, a slight refreshing may be do. Interior is beautiful and very comfortable, I would feel just a good picking up my best client's in a LS as I would in a S class.

ThemisN

You know..you're right. I said this over a year ago...and I get a LOT of flack for it from this message board. Then I told them..OH IS THAT WHY THEY ARE ALREADY RUSHING TO REDESIGN IT? It looked to me like an overblown avalon. Other people obviously thought so. Enough that the lexus execs ran out to make sure it was corrected sooner than later. And sure enough a new LS will be out soon enough. And everyone here was still in denial. I dunno. There are some people who are car fanatics and then there are brand loyal fanatics who are blind to the details of the other side. And i guess that happens with every brand...

S55inPA

hi themisn,

i appreciate the honesty.
heck...if the LS was a little more attractive i would have bought one. the car has many virtures. unfortunately an appealing appearance is not one of them. i actually test drove one 3 times. i just couldn't see myself driving the car on a daily basis.
hey i love my benz's. but they are not without there shortcomings. i've learned that there is always going to be a car manufactured somewhere, sometime that will be better than the one i have. well....1 year after i purchase my 02 S55, MB puts superchargers on the 03 and my car is already outdated. that sucks but hey i still love my car just as much as i did when i picked it up(but man would i love to have 500 hp!!!). one more thing. you would think that for all the money i paid that i would have gotten a wood steering wheel
(the one thing i really felt the car needed)....but noooooo.....that's extra!!!! i just bought one new on MBWORLD for 370 bucks(800 at the dealer). quite the steal....but..why didn't it already have one??? every brand has their good and bad points.

RON430

Absolutely correct. But if I go over to an MB board and say that the next S/E/C HAS to get more reliable than a Cadillac (and that is a very long way to go although doubtless we will have to endure the post of how the Merc figures are an aberration caused by one specific model for one specific year and that everyone with a Merc never sees a dealer except to change the oil every hundred thousand miles whether it needs it or not) and Mercedes HAS got to get costs in line so the prices come down by 10%, I wouldn't, and probably shouldn't, be listened to very much. Post away, but accept that I (and maybe no one else) places a bit more weight on the posts from those who have put down their hard earned bucks for a GS. I doubt this is going to come as much of a surprise to the auto enthusiasts here, maybe Lexus owners are just more, shall we say, thoughtful?

For a thread that was to discuss the timing and evolved into characteristics of the next generation GS it was inevitable that we would have some comments about the competition but this thread seems to have turned into a far more thorough current uber-Mercedes discussion. Maybe we need to start a Mercedes thread in the Lobby. Inevitably, after the new five is out, we will probably have to thoroughly dissect the five when we discuss the next gen GS. Sigh.

LexFather

Wow, this is good info. I have yet to drive it and probably won't.

Aye, the current S-class, Mercedes hit the nail on the head. That car still looks hot, especially with the AMG kit. I think Lexus sells more vehicles cause it figured out most people LEASE, don't even wash their car and don't care. They just want PRESTIGE over Ford, Honda etc and for it to turn on day in, day out.

Only the miniority of us modd our cars, or know what an AMG, M is.

It is also very FUNNY to me how German cars look Japanese now and some Japanese cars now look German.

meanboy

I priced the E55 without the handfree phone or Distronic and it came out to $88,177.00 msrp. That's a lot of change! It's a good thing the luxury tax has been phased out.

I kinda like the old E55 myself. And now that I have had a chance to research the C32 I like that as well. Would I ever buy either one? I don't know but I can't wait to get my mini cooper S next year.

On the topic of the GS remake, I think it could use some more ponies and maybe AWD. And maybe some minor luxury appointments and refinements.

RON430

Actually AWD keeps coming up but not a manual transmission, sort of a surprise. Even with the same hp, a manual GS4 is going to be a low 5 0-60 car. Are sticks dead? Is the closest anyone will get is a manumatic?

S55inPA

hi guys,

i realize this is off topic but i posted at mbworld this thread ....."E-vs-GS".
i was curious if people cross shop, and if they did what were there impressions.
so far there a couple of posts.

also.... 1sicklex makes good point about the disigns of the german cars. much more japanese
looking in appearance. not as boxy as they used to be but no so aerodynamic that they don't have
any character.

LexFather

Toyota would have to develop a NEW 6-speed to go with our V-8. They could use the manual tranny from the IS with the GS 300. It seems ALL manufacturers except BMW offer a MANUAL with the smaller engine but Lexus has no manual for neither.

AWD is coming up cause Toyota promised by 2010 all cars will be hybrid in one way or another. Hybrid works with the AWD.

The last Toyota car with AWD was the 200hp AWD Celica no?

Alewifebp

Great thread! As a person who leases a 2000 GS3 and who will be leasing a 2004 E500, I thought I should chime in.

I have to say that I would have loved to stay in the Lexus family. I really do appreciate Japanese cars, but alas, no GS in sight. Maybe in 2005/6? Who knows. What will it look like? Who knows. And I think it is that that is causing all of the controversy. We just don't know what Lexus will be doing next. And if we look to the past, it is not promising, at least to us "performance" minded people that read and post to this board and others like it. When Lexus first came on the scene, besides giving people a great, reliable car at a great price, it also offered a lot of style at that time. The first gen of the LS, GS, SC and even the ES were much more inspired at that time than the current batch of cars seemed to be. While the GS and SC still maintained originality over the years, it took them how long to remodel the SC, and now how long are we waiting on the GS? A little too long in my opinion. I'm all for doing things right, but you can't let the competition pass you by.

In terms of having a high performance division, I think it is important. There is a reason why MB now has an AMG modified version of ALL of their classes of cars, even the ungainly G-class. And the M division has two spectacular cars. And add in the high performance division of Audi, and even Acura trying to offer up more performance. As I believe 1sicklex pointed out, and I agree, that it leaves that angelic halo over the entire class that it represents. And while the average person may not no jack about it, you better believe that the enthusiasts do.

Thankfully, after having driven the RX as a loaner, I have to say that they are improving certain aspects that make me breath a sigh of relief. While the car did not handle or accellerate as well as I wanted (but I expected this), it had a lot more features inside, a much more luxurious and inspired interior design (it even had lit door sills), and a much more aggressive exterior.

For what sold me on the new E was the features in a lot of ways. Sure, the Japanese have had superior stereos and Nav units for years now, but they have not gotten a lot of the new features, such as the Keyless go, parking aid, heated and cooled seates, the dynamic seats with massage function, multi function displays that can set many car options (our C-Best settings), and even the other stuff that we don't have, like rain sensing wipers. Some of us may shrug off these features as unimportant, but let us not forget, that we are driving LUXURY cars more than anything else. And luxury cars are supposed to be excessive in some ways, and do more for the driver and passengers. The fact of the matter is that the competition is doing it, so Lexus must do it to.

LexFather

Good point, BMW and Benz offers way more options.Well, one of the main problems was the engineers were/are so HAPPY with the current design, they did not know where or what to change. Some consider the 97+ grill/skirts add on the SC a move that took away it's clean lines. The GS only swapped grills and tails basically. The engineers really wanted a convertible SC 300/400 but it was designed as a COUPE first. They chopped the roof later but chassis rigidity was not up to par (for Lexus, I am sure another car maker would have sold it).

I do think the new E will also steal Lexus buyers based on styling until the new GS comes out.

S55inPA

"Absolutely correct. But if I go over to an MB board and say that the next S/E/C HAS to get more reliable than a Cadillac (and that is a very long way to go although doubtless we will have to endure the post of how the Merc figures are an aberration caused by one specific model for one specific year and that everyone with a Merc never sees a dealer except to change the oil every hundred thousand miles whether it needs it or not) and Mercedes HAS got to get costs in line so the prices come down by 10%, I wouldn't, and probably shouldn't, be listened to very much. Post away, but accept that I (and maybe no one else) places a bit more weight on the posts from those who have put down their hard earned bucks for a GS. I doubt this is going to come as much of a surprise to the auto enthusiasts here, maybe Lexus owners are just more, shall we say, thoughtful"

thoughtful???
it seems the other posters on this site enjoy discussing automobiles....and not just Lexus autos. they seem to enjoy the healthy back and forth banter without having their ego bruised. i didn't feel nor do i even now feel that evey post has to be pro lexus to post on this forum....or does it?

LexFather

I am on countless boards and we have THE BEST discussions (like this). Maybe cause Lexus is so NEW? Many people have owned other cars before getting a Lex. Enthusiests pretty much stayed away till the GS came (a small few with the 1st gen SC). So basically since 1998, GS owners were driving something else most likely.

I don't think Benz will ever come down on price. They make most of their $$$$ (as does BMW) here in the USA cause we buy their most expensive models. And they are selling close to 230k a year.

BMW is the most profitable auto company in the world, they DEFINITELY are not coming down on price.

Both has great PANACHE and PRESTIGE where they aan cost a lil more and get away with it. Like a 4 star hotel or so.

meanboy

I read somewhere that the E39 accounts for about 20% of BMW's sales but account for 35-40% of BMW's profit. Imagine if the GS did that for Lexus. There would be so many refinements and features in the GS it would make the competitiors heads spin. Of course, that is all hypothetical.

LexFather

Ahhh true, remember there is only a GS 300 and 400,

E39=Diesal overseas, 525, 530, 540, 530 estate (wagon), 540 wagon, M5, autos and manuals available. A lot more models.