RON430

This is really off topic but the pricing issue is interesting. I know a lot of you guys are in lower sales tax and license fee states but using the numbers here in Cali, looking at an E500 on CarsDirect (heated seats are not standard - now there is value pricing, just like the 760L I was able to spend some time in over the weekend) my guess is that a non navi E500 would cost something like 67 to 68K to put in my garage. Let's say the new 540 is going to be 68 - 70K ( a total guess, they tried to get the 7 more than an S but couldn't make it stick but if the guesstimates of 57K base for a 540 hold true, my guess wouldbe 68 to 70 to put one in your garage after any "premium" for the new model wears off). And lets say the V8 GS similarly equipped is going to be 60 - 63K to put in your garage. Question is if you bought new, has your situation improved to the point where these prices are non events or does it make a difference? Fortunately my situation has improved but not to the point where these amounts are non events. The new models had better have some significant improvements if they hope to get me to be an early adopter. The new E appears to be an improvement over the old E but there are still things I prefer about the GS that can't be changed with shocks (like interior room) so it is not enough of an improvement to get me to consider trading in the GS (all the other issues like reliability aside for the time being). The new 5? What can be said? Most of us only have the car magazines and pictures to deal with for now (just can't shake that old fart habit of wanting to make up my own mind). And the comments are there that the pricing is going to be held but at these ranges, are the new car buyers ready to enthusiastically jump? I know there are always people who thrive on that new model but just curious as to other opinions. Maybe the way to keep it in the thread is to put together that list of what we deem necessary on that new GS to make it considered for a reasonably quick new car purchase. 1,000hp V16 is nice but not going to happen and the engines are so efficient now that it is difficult to see significant hp increases without like mileage penalties. As for my list I am not sure but I wouldn't like to see the GS lose any interior room and adding a bit of trunk room would be nice. I doubt 330hp is going to be noticeable so it would seem like if hp is important, it needs a pretty good pop. And if it is going to get the hp increase, the suspension needs to change from the factory. I-drive (or some variation)? As of right now, wouldn't make much difference to me. As for exterior styling - evolutionary or revolutionary? Can't figure that one out.

We have more bimmers per square mile than you can shake a stick at here in wonderful Silicon Valley (also plenty of Porshces and Ferraris) but we also have 53 million square feet of empty office/R&D space in a triangle about ten miles on a side. I am a little flabbergasted that on the radio over the weekend, Mercedes is advertising that the C class is a viable alternative to the Camry. Looks like the luxury marques are just as interested in going down market as up market.

J.P.

I would love a HP monster, but even if the car stayed at 300hp, it wouldn't be an issue. 330-350hp would be nice, but for me, it doesn't matter. If the new GS bombs, I will consider a 300 Sports Design, so it's not all about power with me. I am coming to the conclusion that if I want that, I need to seek a second \ summer car type scenario.

As far as improvements, maybe a little tighter suspension, but I don't want to lose the comfort this car provides. Larger cup holders would be a BIG plus, stupid stuff. The center console and room must stay. I would pay for AWD, that means more to me then HP. Air condition seats like the LS has, and maybe some rework of the current heated seats.

Over all, repackage this car without a nasty exterior\interior design and I am sold. I love my GS, it does every thing I need.

RON430

A lot better put than I would have put it. So one vote for evolutionary refinement. I actually can't find much if anthing to comment on in your post. I also think the hp wars are a small part of the ownership experience and this is a Lexus sport sedan. Two out of three words are Lexus and sedan. If I want a Corvette, I'll go get one as well. But I also get the sense that evolutionary refinement won't do it as far as generating a "purchase of passion". Correct?

J.P.

Laugh, I wouldn't say purchase of passion since I am just due for a new car. I have been holding off after tossing around several ideas such as a another GS or even an LS. I usually kill a car in 24 months since I drive so much.

But aside from the AWD option, they have everything I need already. No new ground breaking feature is going to sell me, what will kill the deal is a poor exterior\interior design.

I have went through a few GS's, I tested the 5\E\A6 line up several times and Lexus has a straight up winner. I thought the old 5 and E had some serious style, but the interiors killed it for me, not even a second chance. I thought the 2.7T interior was nice, the AWD and power and very nice, but it just wasn't the complete package like the current GS. If they come out with a AWD 6 and 8 cylinder GS without destroying what they currently have, they will have a monster on their hands.

I mean how does a 450hp AWD GS sound? Pretty damn tasty. In the same aspect an RS6 sounds outstanding right now. But at the end of the day I think if I am going to that extent I may as well rock a GS as a daily and spot something else as a sports car, because although I tried to convince myself that the AWD of the Turbo Porsche would get me by in the winter, that idea faded quick as I hit a pot hole that was swallowing anything smaller then a compact sized car.

I am hanging right now until spring, if all else fails I will dig up a 2003-2004 Sports Design and with that Saddle Interior, I will be very happy.

S55inPA

hey guys,

picked up an 03 E500 for my mother 3 weeks ago.
sticker was 59270 and she got 2500 off of that sticker.
the car is phenomenal!!! great looking inside and out,.
solid as if it was made out of a solid piece of high strength steel.
handles great. this car is a true winner.
i could only imagine what an E55 feels like.
lexus has their work cut out for them.
i'm sure they will answer the call when it comes to horsepower.
the part i'm worried about is the exterior styling.
that is where the germans have a better balance than lexus(except the new 5 and 7)!!!!!!!
who knows...maybe lexus has infiltrated the design studios of bmw and is putting out those fugly cars!

RON430

I just picked some appropriate numbers off of CarsDirect to make the Merc a reasonable, but not loaded E500 (no navi). Never could make a lot of sense out of their option packs but 59 sounds like a rare find on the lot (let alone 2500 off, isn't that interesting). Can I ask what options were on her car? Sounds like pretty close to a base E500 (or at least as close as a Merc dealer wants to have on the lot). 57 or so would mean about 63K in your garage here. Bimmer is going to have a hard time with a 57K base (if the mags are right) especially including the 2500 off. At least Lexus knows what is going on in the market. Wonder if that high end of the market is all that sound? Like I said, pitching a C class as a Camry alternative is bizarre in my mind.

S55inPA

i don't have access to her window sticker at the moment. the original post was from her
house where i did have access. desert silver with a sunroof. indash cd changer. no nav. why is everyone surprised about getting a discount on MB's?? i was just offered 4% off of sticker for an 03 CL55 AMG..a not so easy to find car. i wouldn't even consider paying sticker for any ....and i mean any car....let alone pay a premium over sticker. i would have no respect for myself if i paid over sticker. that's moronic. wait a few months and save a couple of thousand. it's not like the factory is going to stop making them right? i just bought an 03 GMC 2500 HD for $8003 off of the window sticker(brand new). i paid less for the 03 than i did for a 00 GMC 1500 in 2000 and it has more options and a bigger engine. deals are out there you just have to find them. plus it doesn't hurt to have a good relationship with your local dealer. my local dealer carries almost 15 brands in one location. it makes buying a new car a lot easier.

TXSTYLE

iTrader: (1)

WOW! That is an INCREDIBLE price for the New E500! I don't believe I've seen one for less than mid-60's around here in Dallas/Plano! I'll have to investigate! This car with a conversion/kit and some 19's would be "Quite simply...............OFF THE METERS!"

Case in point:

J.P.

That is pretty hot

Is the E55 out? I thought I seen one while I was in Canada this weekend, it had NY plates. Had the Kompressor logo on the side of the car.

TXSTYLE

iTrader: (1)

Dude! I've already seen at least 3 here in Dallas!!!

J.P.

Haven't seen one around here, only seen a handful of the old E55's around here. I have seen more ML 55's then anything else, but then again, Texas has no snow, and roads that cars can drive on

mdw131

Theres been some threads in autospies about this I think...

http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e...e000141977.cfm
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e...e000162607.cfm
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e...e000154706.cfm

JDZ25

Ron430 & JPA2400,

I would agree with your previous comments about the next gen GS. I also would like to see an evoluntionary design. For me, I would like to see a relatively conservative redesign (a la the E class), an awd option and an increase in trunk space. 300 hp is more than enough for me right now (I guess I am turning into an old fart after all)

RON430

That price on the E500 is interesting. Much as I hate car dealers, I stopped the only one I pass on the way home, a Merc dealer. As fast as I could, I looked at four E500s. The window stickers went from high 62K to high 67K. But today I decided to reconfirm the prices on Cars Direct and Edmunds. CarsDirect lists the base MSRP as 56,570 while Edmunds has it as 54,850 and Edmunds says that about $1800 off MSRP is the right price. I have never taken a CarsDirect price into a dealer and had them say it was too high, on the contrary it seems like there is always a price increase that they claim is not reflected. But it is pretty clear if you can get a dealer to have or order an E500 without 15K of options, it should be more like high 50's, without tax and license which would still make it low 60's here in Cali. And yeah, up close I still wasn't taken with it, still looks like a Sable. But the midnight oil must be burning bright in Bimmeria. Even at the guesstimated base of 57K, they are going to have their work cut out for them and they really don't have any room to increase. Looks like the 540 is going to cost more than the E500 in all likelihood. Whodathunk?

Pursuing my curiousity, are you guys that are interested in AWD on the next GS interested for performance reasons or winter weather reasons? And deep down inside, do you really think Lexus is going to put it on the next GS? Toyota hasn't seemed to be a great adopter of AWD on non SUV/trucks and my gut says it won't be there. As for my personal feelings I know the advantage for high hp cars but generally you will always pay a price for hauling around the AWD in lower acceleration compared to equivalent hp in a RWD car and I don't think I want to endure that. Also, growing up in Chicago, for snow of any depth and ice, AWD isn't the only thing you need. Ground clearance and narrow snow/ice tires have to be there. Two friends with expensive hardware (one in Maine and one in MinnieSOta) both have beater Explorers for the winter and as much as I hate that proposition, if I lived back there, I probably would too.

Net result so far seems to be that we recommend evolutionary development, not screwing up what works on the current model, and limited doo dads. I have a feeling we won't be disappointed with those expectations.

J.P.

If I only plan to have one car, then AWD is a biggie for me being in Michigan. I like how AWD handles, summer time and winter time... and RAIN. High HP\Straight line performance isn't everything. I can pickup a 90' stang hatchback for $5000 and have some serious straight line performance if I want that