JDZ25

I agree completely. I am not expecting SUV capabilities in the bad weather. For me, it would be a best of both worlds scenario. You would have a great car with good performance levels with a added level of safety.

AWD may not be a "be all, end all" but it would provide me a greater level of comfort over rwd with traction control being that I live in NY (we just had a pretty bad winter here).

dseag2

Even though I don't currently own a GS (sold my '01 GS300 in 2/02), I am still very interested in the next generation. I might even consider trading in my SC430 if the GS is nice enough. And I would be very interested in AWD because the Audi A6 4.2 that I owned in between the two Lexuses (Lexi?) had Quattro and it stuck to the road like glue.

There are two distinct advantages to AWD outside of driving in the snow... roadholding and driving on wet roads. I live in So. Florida where monsoons pop up at the drop of a hat, and with Quattro I used to be able to cruise along in rainstorms like the road was dry. That said, Ron, you're right about AWD taking its toll... even with 300hp the A6 was a little slow off the line. I could never spin the tires, but once the V-8 kicked in it was like a rocket!

Since it will be a long time before I go back to a German car, I hope Lexus hits a home run with the next GS. And BTW, I'm also in favor of an evolutionary design. If you look at the LS and RX, there may be hope!

J.P.

See I thought the 2.7T was VERY fun to drive. So you see some of that power take a boot with the AWD... When I test drove the that Audi, it was wet out. What would an extra 100 ponies get you when it is wet? When your trying to avoid crap on the road, taking turns, that HP is WASTED.

I could see myself getting more out of the AWD then the HP, I would certainly use the AWD more often that I would that HP on the rare occasion traffic is clear enough to mess around...

RON430

Question remains with the given that hard info on the next gen GS is not really out there but is it realistic to expect AWD? Seems like everyone here knows the Japanese domestic market better than I do but has Toyota shown any indication to put AWD in a sedan, let alone a marquis, high horsepower one? Not saying they won't do it, and I have seen a lot of realibility issues with Audi, but give them credit, they have developed AWD for a passenger sedan to a pretty high level. Can't say I have much feeling one way or the other (what do you expect from a Cal driver) but if I were back in the frozen tundra I would be inclined to use the Lex in the summer and put that Mustang GT money to work on a SUV (not only snow, but the salt, and that thing that grows and lives in the wheel wells driving in snow/ice). Like I said, if you were to place a bet, would you think the next GS would have AWD? I just don't see it.

PS, If you ever saw Hans Stuck in that AWD Audi, I would never say that AWD is wasted in turns. The power he could put down in turns was what made it so fast, not the straight line.

Static911

From what I understand, the next IS and GS will be AWD, but the horsepower will stay around the same, even if the displacement goes up. Lexus, a division of Toyota, are pursueing the "environmentally friendly" approach. If you go the Lexus headquarters, they have these environment friendly brochures. We will all wait and see in less than a year.

RON430

Oh boy, AWD and the same hp, albeit larger displacement so probably a bit more torque to work with the AWD, sounds like A6 4.2 territory and not 540/E500 territory. Hope that AWD makes the difference.

J.P.

I believe it is realistic that AWD will be an option. I think we all know they will not play the HP game. Static is right, look at the direction they are going. IF anything, they are going to add features that will be useful.


Also what does the 540\E500 offer that the GS doesn't?

Say they kept the same power, and added AWD in the same package, what would it need to make it into 540\E500 territory?

Just HP, the E500 is laying down 302, and does that thing even offer a Nav system yet?

Even then, if you point out a few things they have over Lexus, is it worth the premium? Until European companies have a grip on the EU, you will continue to over pay for those German products, everyone says Lexus is cheaper because they are lesser, if I recall your in manufacturing of some sort so I think you know where I am coming from. Dollar to dollar European automakers have no chance against the Japanese in a dollar war, they face the same problems the big 3 does, UNIONS.

Take away the high performance brands (AMG, M) what are you left with? The 540 and E500, apples to apples with the 2 new releases, did they really break any new ground?

Sure, some new lines of crazy HP cars, which is wicked, but for me their time would have been better spent on AWD. Maybe is Lexus goes that route, they will up the bar and force the Germans to look at something aside from HP.

RON430

I guess the first issue is will it be an option? There are a few cars that are RWD and offer AWD as an option (Merc and bimmer come to mind) but it seems like the AWD's are considerably more expensive than the RWD options. As for Audi, the vehicles are availbe as FWD but when you go to, for example, the A6, I don't believe a FWD version of the 4.2 is availalbe, only AWD. I don't necessarily have my mind made up, I believe AWD is the future for a lot of reasons, especially with higher hp, but I generally don't really like the "feel" of AWD. It is technically superior but I haven't driven one yet that you would mistake for RWD. The reason I would favor AWD is not got anything to do with snow driving although the advantage in rain is just as considerable. A properly setup AWD can put power down in a turn that a RWD will probably never match, which is why they are banned or penalized so much in racing. Assuming I can get used to the driving style. And of course if Lexus does do it, it will be more reasonable than anything from Europe. Ethan, do you think it will be an option or the only way the GS and IS will be sold?

jpa2400 - Your arguments are not lost on me and I pretty much agree. Whether you are a fan of the E or not, it has really thrown down the gauntlet to bimmer for five pricing. Bimmer has just never been quite able to get Mercedes dollars for their cars (before the floodgates open, that is really looking at equivalent models and just that people hold Merc in a bit higher perceived value category than the sporting crowd are able to justify for the bimmers) and the E pricing is setting the ceiling for the 5 IMO. Do I think either one breaks new ground? No. My wife just can't look at the E and not see Sable and it seems like the effort for Merc really goes into the C and the S with the E just somewhere in between.

The electronics in the 5 are starting to concern me. I have spent a fair amount of time in both a 745 and a 760 lately and there is something very strange about the electronics. It is like when you put it in gear, step on the accelerator, turn the steering wheel, etc., the car thinks about it for half a heartbeat and then starts to react. Very strange and not appreciated by me. From what I have heard, the new active steering on the five is not viewed as much of an improvement over the steering of the older model, which is demonstrated when it fails. As for build, yeah there are a lot of problems. I remember years ago when one of my German partners told me I would have to be crazy to place a manufacturing plant in Germany. When I asked why, he said unions. The companies had pretty much busted the unions and they were dying. So, in order to get membership, they decided to go to the government. When they want more benefits, they have the gov pass a law. So now things like benefits, vacation, severance, etc., are not negotiated between a union and a company, they are applied to every company in Germany by law. In order to make up for it, a lot of immigrant labor is used and quality has just not quite been the same. I also remember years ago in Germany when hundreds of cab drivers (who were driving C and E class Mercs) blocked the access to the Merc factory with their cars as a protest over shoddy quality. So can Lexus have problems? Of course, but I just feel better with Toyota. And the exchange rates? Well, just another problem.

I quickly got to the opinion years ago that if you built the best $100,000 car in the world that a) you still wouldn't get all the potential customers and b) there just isn't that big a market for $100,000 cars. So is this the reason for the A class and the 1 series? Who knows but I think they are both making a mistake taking their brands down market. Enough soap box.

It sure looks like you guys want AWD and are willing to pay for it and accept whatever reduction in fabled (and meaningless) 0-60 times it may mean. Another whodathunk.

J.P.

The reading enthusiast in me says DAMN, that car is quick 0 to 60, I need one. Then at 5am when I am on the rode, the practical side kicks and says, damn what a waste of power, I will never use it.

After driving a few German AWD sedans\sport cars, I do love the feeling and I am willing to sacrifice the meaningless 0 to 60 times, then again maybe Lexus is perfecting that AWD design and will deliver a quick accelerating AWD sedan.

See I really love the 745, I love big cars, I can even deal with some of the questionable styling, the price isn't to bad, but it just makes me look at the LS more and more after I see the problems with it.

RON430

Now that you mention it, I hope Lexus has their feet under them with the next LS and jumps Mercedes design. I must admit that if one of the GS's my wife and I have go, it is very likely to be replaced with an LS. Doubtless if the rumors are true, the GS V8, SC, and LS are going to be five liter engines next time and it just sounds better and better.

J.P.

Thanks to some of these great CL members, they have turned me onto a fully hooked up LS, I won't mention their names, they know who they are

You can take an LS, add a nice body kit, coilovers and a nice 19-20" wheel and the car is UNSTOPPABLE. But I think I would be looking at a second car for the winter for sure if I went that route. If you haven't seen a hooked up LS 430, look around, very very sweet.

Even stock, I may consider one as a company car. I was looking at a stock 2003 LS 430 UL, blk\blk. It looked very sharp just the way it sat. I love the big console in the GS, and the LS has the same thing which is a big point for me, I am a big guy and that phat console makes the ride cozy.

doug_999

Ron
I read that the 5-series will not have much of a price increase. That should put it in the low 60K range.

Of course new features add money (i.e. take the RX330 with stuff like swivel headlights, active suspension, etc.) and I expect the sport package (the one with the active steering) to probably cost more than the current one. But still, it will probably be hard to find one of those babies for $67K.

Just like the Mercs - yea, you can easily option them up to the high $60s -but all of the ones out here in Chicago are between $58 and $62 with a few at $64.

Last but not least, for those interested in a LS, autospies is saying the LS will have a restyle for 04.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I think "you guys" is you and jpa2400 I have no interest in AWD here in the South and no interest in EVER driving in snow again in a sedan. In an SUV, sure, but not a sedan or worse, a sports car.

Even if Lexus offers it, I predict VERY few people will buy a GS with AWD and pay the premium (and gain the weight and slight oomph loss).

TXSTYLE

iTrader: (1)

Spoken like a TRUE TEXAN! Now unless of course they add ANOTHER 100hp or so to uhhm offset that extra weight!

RNM GS3

The next GS will have AWD. It will be used together with the V6 hybrid engine. It will follow the same setup that will be used on the hybrid RX. From talking to a person from corp lexus, my understanding is that the hybrid engine works together with AWD and this setup will be available on every lexus model in the future.

I think the next GS will be absolutely GREAT in terms of its technology and feature content. Im worried only about the exterior design. If lexus makes the GS look as bad as they did the ES, I would not even consider it, no matter how great of a car it is. The ES is selling well, so i guess styling is not that important to Lexus' targeted customers.