How to get a GS430/400 more "bmw like"?
are you crazy!
03-25-05, 07:51 AM
#77
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Originally Posted by doug_999
Funny - you are aware of the benchmark that Lexus used for the new GS right?
Quote:
Lexus openly admits that BMW's 5 Series sedan provided the benchmark for the new GS, in much the same way the big Lexus LS was originally targeted the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, at the time top of its class. Again going after the perceived leader of the pack, Lexus devised a crafty strategy.
First, it broadened the appeal of the GS line-up with a faster, better equipped "base" car. In fact, the rear-wheel-drive GS 300 out-measures its competitor from Munich, the BMW 530i, in horsepower, torque, the 0-60 sprint and fuel mileage, not to mention offering a far friendlier and more sybaritic cockpit.
Second, to entice those in cold climes who until now had to look elsewhere for an all-weather passenger car, Lexus is offering an all-wheel-drive option for the GS 300. More than one-third of all new GS sales are expected to be AWD models, most headed for the northwest and northeast United States.
Finally, Lexus made sure the top dawg of the family, the 430, had the bite to wrest bragging rights away from the Germans, not just by matching but exceeding the high-end performance recorded by the BMW 545i. Simply put, Lexus fine-tuned its 4.3-liter V8, paired it with a wonder of a transmission and cloaked the drivetrain in a slippery coat of sexy metal. Result? The GS 430 runs in realms never reached by a Lexus, and it's quicker than the BMW.
03-25-05, 09:22 AM
#78
Originally Posted by Hameed
Rom, I think you misunderstood just a tad what Kevin was trying to say.
He said comparing an RX7 to an M5 is not an apples to apples comparison :
I tend to agree with Kevin because I think what he is trying to say is that an M5 (and I love M5's), is not a true sports car as in a track sports car like the RX7 or an M3. Why? Simply because the M5 is a much heavier car. Just that - the weight factor. It's the same for a GS400. It is a heavy car and heavy does not = awesome track car. Plain and simple. Ofcourse the M5/540/GS400 make up for that in the non sporty aspect of the equation - can seat 4 adults comfortably and can also be taken to a track, but will not show it's tail lights to the real sports cars (the RX7's, M3's etc), in the twisties.
That's how I see it anyway.
I have a friend who has a 330i that he tracks and he always talks about the 540's and M5's that come out to the track and how he can easily beat them in the corners, but then they catch up on the straights. The reason is obvious - the 330i just handles better in the twisties mainly because of its weight (I am not saying all light cars handle better than heavy cars, but specifically referring to the 330i here).
Anyway, I think we have bashed this sport/luxury aspect of the 540/GS400 way too much and we all need to get a life, group hug and move on!
Both cars (540 and GS400) are awesome cars and I know a lot of people on here would rather have a 540 than a GS400 if the reliability was not sub par on the Bimmer. Why? The common consensus is that the Bimmer is better in the "sport" department.
He said comparing an RX7 to an M5 is not an apples to apples comparison :
I tend to agree with Kevin because I think what he is trying to say is that an M5 (and I love M5's), is not a true sports car as in a track sports car like the RX7 or an M3. Why? Simply because the M5 is a much heavier car. Just that - the weight factor. It's the same for a GS400. It is a heavy car and heavy does not = awesome track car. Plain and simple. Ofcourse the M5/540/GS400 make up for that in the non sporty aspect of the equation - can seat 4 adults comfortably and can also be taken to a track, but will not show it's tail lights to the real sports cars (the RX7's, M3's etc), in the twisties.
That's how I see it anyway.
I have a friend who has a 330i that he tracks and he always talks about the 540's and M5's that come out to the track and how he can easily beat them in the corners, but then they catch up on the straights. The reason is obvious - the 330i just handles better in the twisties mainly because of its weight (I am not saying all light cars handle better than heavy cars, but specifically referring to the 330i here).
Anyway, I think we have bashed this sport/luxury aspect of the 540/GS400 way too much and we all need to get a life, group hug and move on!
Both cars (540 and GS400) are awesome cars and I know a lot of people on here would rather have a 540 than a GS400 if the reliability was not sub par on the Bimmer. Why? The common consensus is that the Bimmer is better in the "sport" department.
it's like syaing putting the rx7 and the enzo together and say that nah, the rx7 isn't sporty enough. that doesn't make much sense to me
it's all good
03-25-05, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Wyum
So there's no confusion, when I mention RX7 I am only talking about 3rd gens (93,94,95 in the US).
Still, I choose my GS4 and mod it to what I choose.
03-25-05, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rominl
did you read what hameed said couple posts above?
"Lexus openly admits that BMW's 5 Series sedan provided the benchmark for the new GS"
"Lexus openly admits that BMW's 5 Series sedan provided the benchmark for the new GS"
Still, I wouldn't ever think of making my Lexus more BMW like...literally! I'll take the realiability, comfort and mod support. It's why I bought it in the first place.
I never did test drive the 540i. Maybe I would have bought it if I did? I feared the possibility of buying a money pit.
I don't regret my desicion. And I can't wait to get the TEIN coilovers w/EDFC, strut bars front and rear. Hopefully this year. That should make it somewhat comparable to BMW handling...I'll settle with close second.
03-25-05, 02:07 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by bmgs400
Going after the big dawg...I like that. Obvious they're hoping to save potential BMW or MERC owners. Let's bring them into the fold.
Still, I wouldn't ever think of making my Lexus more BMW like...literally! I'll take the realiability, comfort and mod support. It's why I bought it in the first place.
I never did test drive the 540i. Maybe I would have bought it if I did? I feared the possibility of buying a money pit.
I don't regret my desicion. And I can't wait to get the TEIN coilovers w/EDFC, strut bars front and rear. Hopefully this year. That should make it somewhat comparable to BMW handling...I'll settle with close second.
Still, I wouldn't ever think of making my Lexus more BMW like...literally! I'll take the realiability, comfort and mod support. It's why I bought it in the first place.
I never did test drive the 540i. Maybe I would have bought it if I did? I feared the possibility of buying a money pit.
I don't regret my desicion. And I can't wait to get the TEIN coilovers w/EDFC, strut bars front and rear. Hopefully this year. That should make it somewhat comparable to BMW handling...I'll settle with close second.
Both Amazing cars!
03-25-05, 04:45 PM
#84
Lexus Test Driver
Reasons i like the 2nd GS over the E39 5series are:
1)Styling - Inside/out (BMW also looks great but to me the GS is nicer.)
2)Interior comfort
3)Reliability
The ONLY thing i hate about my GS is the loose steering. That seems to be the 1 area that cannot be modded to match the 5 series.
I want to take the exterior, interior, reliability, and luxury of the GS and combine it with BMW's handling, steering, and chassis engineering to create the PERFECT luxury-sport sedan.
1)Styling - Inside/out (BMW also looks great but to me the GS is nicer.)
2)Interior comfort
3)Reliability
The ONLY thing i hate about my GS is the loose steering. That seems to be the 1 area that cannot be modded to match the 5 series.
I want to take the exterior, interior, reliability, and luxury of the GS and combine it with BMW's handling, steering, and chassis engineering to create the PERFECT luxury-sport sedan.
03-26-05, 07:21 AM
#85
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Here's my 10 cents worth -
I nearly bought a 540i instead of my GS Turbo / Aristo V300. I also race my Aristo V300 at the racetrack.
There is no difference in racetrack cornering between BMW M5 & Aristo V300/GS (as can be seen in the Best Motoring shoot-out video).
I think the difference in steering feel will probably be the speed-sensitive steering in the GS - it's probably not available or dampened down in the BMW.
I road in a BMW last weekend at the racetrack, new shape 535i diesel with 326hp and it was tight, but no faster than my lowered GS.
Mods to a GS to make it handle better
- Tein Flex suspension
- Steering ECU if required
- anti-roll bars
The ride quality in the GS is excellent, better than BMW. BMW ride is always a bit firmer to give it more sporty feel.
I would also pick a Lexus over a 5-series based on (1) value for money, (2) cheaper to modify and lots of options, (3) More space inside the cabin with more stuff as standard (4) less curb weight than the BMW typically by 150+ Kilo
I nearly bought a 540i instead of my GS Turbo / Aristo V300. I also race my Aristo V300 at the racetrack.
There is no difference in racetrack cornering between BMW M5 & Aristo V300/GS (as can be seen in the Best Motoring shoot-out video).
I think the difference in steering feel will probably be the speed-sensitive steering in the GS - it's probably not available or dampened down in the BMW.
I road in a BMW last weekend at the racetrack, new shape 535i diesel with 326hp and it was tight, but no faster than my lowered GS.
Mods to a GS to make it handle better
- Tein Flex suspension
- Steering ECU if required
- anti-roll bars
The ride quality in the GS is excellent, better than BMW. BMW ride is always a bit firmer to give it more sporty feel.
I would also pick a Lexus over a 5-series based on (1) value for money, (2) cheaper to modify and lots of options, (3) More space inside the cabin with more stuff as standard (4) less curb weight than the BMW typically by 150+ Kilo
03-26-05, 08:58 AM
#86
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Originally Posted by bmgs400
I never did test drive the 540i. Maybe I would have bought it if I did? I feared the possibility of buying a money pit.
.
.
On the other hand, there is exactaly three GS series Lexus's here. Two 300's and a 430. (Mine) I have owned this car for one week today, and I am amazed at the interest it generates.
03-26-05, 09:27 AM
#87
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Originally Posted by yoshi
Here's my 10 cents worth -
I think the difference in steering feel will probably be the speed-sensitive steering in the GS - it's probably not available or dampened down in the BMW.
I think the difference in steering feel will probably be the speed-sensitive steering in the GS - it's probably not available or dampened down in the BMW.
If I had to say why I liked my 540ia so much more than my GS the top three reasons (other than steering feel) would be
1. Handling - the available sport package in the 540 made it an incredibly fun car to drive.
2. Interior - yep, interior. The ergonomics on the 540 without NAV are superior to the GS with Nav - using the screen to change everything (even if it is a touch screen) takes your eyes away from the road. What takes one push of a button in the BMW is up to three on the GS. Everything is visible in the BMW at night - even the garage opener controls - and the LED lighting was incredible (the new GS now has this). Three stage heated seats were wonderful and the shifter (even though it was an auto) felt better in your hand (let the jokes begin). The Lexus interior is about form (i.e. wood steering wheel); the BMW interior was about function.
3. Looks - the subtle looks of the 540ia were my preference. I think the GS is a good looking car just that the 540 was more understated and that's my style.
03-26-05, 09:31 AM
#88
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Yeah, the steering is less feel than my other car, but it goes where you point it. As you go faster, the 'weight' in the steering comes back. Feel is a lot to do with the suspension setup also, and on the GS it's set to roll a lot - on the limit it is OK but there can be a lack of feedback sometimes.
I guess this is the price of pure luxury....if I wanted ultimate steering wheel feedback I would've bought a sports car like a TVR etc..
I guess this is the price of pure luxury....if I wanted ultimate steering wheel feedback I would've bought a sports car like a TVR etc..
03-27-05, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by T.L.W.
Pete
i do all my own maintenance also
i was just curious why is the BMw hard to work on ??
i was considering an older one to drive to work ..an old 3 series or something ..
but just curious as to why its easier to work on a lexus
i do all my own maintenance also
i was just curious why is the BMw hard to work on ??
i was considering an older one to drive to work ..an old 3 series or something ..
but just curious as to why its easier to work on a lexus
The V8 is a really tight fit in the engine compartment. Obviously, you wouldn't have this problem with an old 3 series. To access anything on the V8 required more disassembly than should have been necessary. Other things that made me crazy was the need to seemingly disassemble half the dash to replace the cabin air filter, and the use of bolts instead of studs for the wheels (ever tried to balance a wheel in position while trying to get the first bolt started?). Other stuff was just harder than it needed to be. It took me less than an hour to put a short shift kit in my Mustang Cobra. It took half a day in the 5 series. Lastly, on a related note, the parts prices are way expensive. I almost bought a 2002, 25 years ago, but got scared off by the parts prices then. Nothing's changed.
On the plus side, 3 series are wonderful handlers. Go check out a newer 330 some time. You'll be really impressed by how easy it is to drive fast.
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