Tuning
02-08-19, 05:52 AM
#16
I believe you have some sort of disorder in which you believe you are always right and that everyone should at all times agree with your "opinions". You are telling me what is worth "my" time and money.. and you are even upset about it. Lets go over this again. If I say that I like this car and want to put a little into it, then it is worth it to me. If you can't realize that there are other opinions that exist, then just stop talking.
What I want to do with my car, (MY CAR not yours), is to do a few modifications. My question is about tuning. Obviously you and no one on here has a tuning device or any experience with one because people like you down them and chase them away from the idea.
So as much as you think you are helping, (because I really do think you believe you are) You have done nothing but shove your way onto me. I will do what I want to do and not let some narcissistic forum bully tell me whats worth my money. You've given zero answers to my question, only tied to persuade me to your way. You don't have experience with a tuner and therefore don't know the answer to my question, which means you shouldn't even be responding to the thread.
What I want to do with my car, (MY CAR not yours), is to do a few modifications. My question is about tuning. Obviously you and no one on here has a tuning device or any experience with one because people like you down them and chase them away from the idea.
So as much as you think you are helping, (because I really do think you believe you are) You have done nothing but shove your way onto me. I will do what I want to do and not let some narcissistic forum bully tell me whats worth my money. You've given zero answers to my question, only tied to persuade me to your way. You don't have experience with a tuner and therefore don't know the answer to my question, which means you shouldn't even be responding to the thread.
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dwoods801 (10-29-21)
02-08-19, 10:10 AM
#17
Team Firelizard lol
Just go buy an SRT intake with the piggy back ecu, claims "20 HP" it sure does not feel like it, I have had both intakes and there is better response in the high end like on freeways but the car just weights to much for any off the line performance
Just go buy an SRT intake with the piggy back ecu, claims "20 HP" it sure does not feel like it, I have had both intakes and there is better response in the high end like on freeways but the car just weights to much for any off the line performance
05-01-19, 07:43 PM
#18
First of all, it is a blatant lie that I didn't answer your questions. The only one I haven't yet is "how was it done" and I will go ahead answer that for you too: you call your local shop with a dyno and ask them what tuners they're familiar with. You go buy that, install it, bring the car to the dyno shop, hand them your money, and they tune your car for you.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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dwoods801 (10-29-21)
05-01-19, 08:00 PM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
05-02-19, 04:32 AM
#20
Honestly, just not sure how to tune the internals, of a 2JZ-GE with VVTi... or any engine of that era ('00s) with VVTi. Yet here's some random thoughts:
Stock Cam attributes:
http://schneidercams.com/Stock_2JZ-GE.aspx
Intake Duration (gross):244
Exhaust Duration (gross):244
Intake Duration (.050”):212
Exhaust Duration (.050”):212
Intake Valve Lift:.340"
Exhaust Valve Lift:.340"
A quick Google shows a "264 cam" has:
Duration: 264/264
Duration @ 0.50: 218/218
Lift: .344"
Nice page, with decent pic on first page of what VVT does (Toyota is VVTi, or "intelligent"):
http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/vvt.htm
Joked in the past that VVTi is like having a 264 cam without the idle problems... none of the overlap at idle, all of the overlap at speed. So what happens when you move from a 244 cam to a 264 cam, for real? Sounds that you're going to have 40deg of more potential overlap (20 for each cam), throughout the entire rpm range, as defined by the rpm and the impact of VVTi on the cam timing (so your overlap is always X+40deg, no matter the value of X?). I'm guessing that as long as the cam profile matches the oem cam, just that the duration is longer, it should be fine... just with the upsides/downsides of cam with more duration.
I'd say you're letting there be more breathing potential, yet won't see it until you deal with the breathing.
Heck, if the cams aren't too much, just put them in, and see what happens?
Stock Cam attributes:
http://schneidercams.com/Stock_2JZ-GE.aspx
Intake Duration (gross):244
Exhaust Duration (gross):244
Intake Duration (.050”):212
Exhaust Duration (.050”):212
Intake Valve Lift:.340"
Exhaust Valve Lift:.340"
A quick Google shows a "264 cam" has:
Duration: 264/264
Duration @ 0.50: 218/218
Lift: .344"
Nice page, with decent pic on first page of what VVT does (Toyota is VVTi, or "intelligent"):
http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/vvt.htm
Joked in the past that VVTi is like having a 264 cam without the idle problems... none of the overlap at idle, all of the overlap at speed. So what happens when you move from a 244 cam to a 264 cam, for real? Sounds that you're going to have 40deg of more potential overlap (20 for each cam), throughout the entire rpm range, as defined by the rpm and the impact of VVTi on the cam timing (so your overlap is always X+40deg, no matter the value of X?). I'm guessing that as long as the cam profile matches the oem cam, just that the duration is longer, it should be fine... just with the upsides/downsides of cam with more duration.
I'd say you're letting there be more breathing potential, yet won't see it until you deal with the breathing.
Heck, if the cams aren't too much, just put them in, and see what happens?
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dwoods801 (10-29-21)
05-02-19, 04:47 AM
#21
Racer
Thread Starter
I do have a set of BC 264s and an adjustable sprocket for the exh. cam on the way. BC is grinding them for me since these cams are actually out of stock. Everyone selling them I spoke to said they'd have to be ground then sent. But yes, I believe the swap will be worth while and the cams alone will be a fun upgrade. Not to mention these are meant to compliment a turbo build I'm now planning in the future. Hence the adjustable sprocket. Running 2-4 retarded on the base exhaust timing is supposed to be good for boost. So this should work out nicely for an N/A build for now set at normal timing. Then be ready for adjustment for the small NA-T build coming soon.
I decided not to listen to the haters and do my build my way. Will be making around 300whp in a safe setup at only around 6psi on a small turbo if my planing is correct with these cams. I located a oem Aristo side mount IC and will have a complete system that is removable in a couple hours if I need to.
However for now its going to be N/A and I may dyno it to see numbers since apparently no one has done this on a GE vvti. I have a full intake and header back exhaust. And the GE head is said to flow excellent. The cams should make a good increase.
I decided not to listen to the haters and do my build my way. Will be making around 300whp in a safe setup at only around 6psi on a small turbo if my planing is correct with these cams. I located a oem Aristo side mount IC and will have a complete system that is removable in a couple hours if I need to.
However for now its going to be N/A and I may dyno it to see numbers since apparently no one has done this on a GE vvti. I have a full intake and header back exhaust. And the GE head is said to flow excellent. The cams should make a good increase.
Last edited by TrueGS300; 05-02-19 at 05:07 AM.
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dwoods801 (10-29-21)
05-02-19, 05:30 AM
#22
Honestly, just not sure how to tune the internals, of a 2JZ-GE with VVTi... or any engine of that era ('00s) with VVTi. Yet here's some random thoughts:
Stock Cam attributes:
http://schneidercams.com/Stock_2JZ-GE.aspx
Intake Duration (gross):244
Exhaust Duration (gross):244
Intake Duration (.050”):212
Exhaust Duration (.050”):212
Intake Valve Lift:.340"
Exhaust Valve Lift:.340"
A quick Google shows a "264 cam" has:
Duration: 264/264
Duration @ 0.50: 218/218
Lift: .344"
Nice page, with decent pic on first page of what VVT does (Toyota is VVTi, or "intelligent"):
http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/vvt.htm
Joked in the past that VVTi is like having a 264 cam without the idle problems... none of the overlap at idle, all of the overlap at speed. So what happens when you move from a 244 cam to a 264 cam, for real? Sounds that you're going to have 40deg of more potential overlap (20 for each cam), throughout the entire rpm range, as defined by the rpm and the impact of VVTi on the cam timing (so your overlap is always X+40deg, no matter the value of X?). I'm guessing that as long as the cam profile matches the oem cam, just that the duration is longer, it should be fine... just with the upsides/downsides of cam with more duration.
I'd say you're letting there be more breathing potential, yet won't see it until you deal with the breathing.
Heck, if the cams aren't too much, just put them in, and see what happens?
Stock Cam attributes:
http://schneidercams.com/Stock_2JZ-GE.aspx
Intake Duration (gross):244
Exhaust Duration (gross):244
Intake Duration (.050”):212
Exhaust Duration (.050”):212
Intake Valve Lift:.340"
Exhaust Valve Lift:.340"
A quick Google shows a "264 cam" has:
Duration: 264/264
Duration @ 0.50: 218/218
Lift: .344"
Nice page, with decent pic on first page of what VVT does (Toyota is VVTi, or "intelligent"):
http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/vvt.htm
Joked in the past that VVTi is like having a 264 cam without the idle problems... none of the overlap at idle, all of the overlap at speed. So what happens when you move from a 244 cam to a 264 cam, for real? Sounds that you're going to have 40deg of more potential overlap (20 for each cam), throughout the entire rpm range, as defined by the rpm and the impact of VVTi on the cam timing (so your overlap is always X+40deg, no matter the value of X?). I'm guessing that as long as the cam profile matches the oem cam, just that the duration is longer, it should be fine... just with the upsides/downsides of cam with more duration.
I'd say you're letting there be more breathing potential, yet won't see it until you deal with the breathing.
Heck, if the cams aren't too much, just put them in, and see what happens?
Will
05-02-19, 05:36 AM
#23
I do have a set of BC 264s and an adjustable sprocket for the exh. cam on the way. BC is grinding them for me since these cams are actually out of stock. Everyone selling them I spoke to said they'd have to be ground then sent. But yes, I believe the swap will be worth while and the cams alone will be a fun upgrade. Not to mention these are meant to compliment a turbo build I'm now planning in the future. Hence the adjustable sprocket. Running 2-4 retarded on the base exhaust timing is supposed to be good for boost. So this should work out nicely for an N/A build for now set at normal timing. Then be ready for adjustment for the small NA-T build coming soon.
I decided not to listen to the haters and do my build my way. Will be making around 300whp in a safe setup at only around 6psi on a small turbo if my planing is correct with these cams. I located a oem Aristo side mount IC and will have a complete system that is removable in a couple hours if I need to.
However for now its going to be N/A and I may dyno it to see numbers since apparently no one has done this on a GE vvti.
I have a full intake and header back exhaust.
And the GE head is said to flow excellent.
The cams should make a good increase.
I decided not to listen to the haters and do my build my way. Will be making around 300whp in a safe setup at only around 6psi on a small turbo if my planing is correct with these cams. I located a oem Aristo side mount IC and will have a complete system that is removable in a couple hours if I need to.
However for now its going to be N/A and I may dyno it to see numbers since apparently no one has done this on a GE vvti.
I have a full intake and header back exhaust.
And the GE head is said to flow excellent.
The cams should make a good increase.
The G-heads have great flow, much better then the F-heads. The CA-market 3S-GE was swapped a lot, when 5S-FEs went bad on the MR2s, just to get the G-head.
I'd say that the cams will present potential for a good increase. You might see a slight increase just because your duration is longer (and the VVTi will make the idle livable, as overlap won't occur until where it should), yet until you can get more air in and more exhaust out, you won't reach max potential.
Does K&N make a CARB'ed FIPK? Went looking, couldn't find one.
Last edited by sbagdon; 05-02-19 at 05:44 AM.
05-02-19, 05:57 AM
#24
Racer
Thread Starter
Dyno'ing is good. We used to do that to our 3S-GTEs, just to baseline, then see what each mod did. Too many dyno sheets to believe, a group would rent the dyno by the hour, to get as many runs as we could.
The G-heads have great flow, much better then the F-heads. The CA-market 3S-GE was swapped a lot, when 5S-FEs went bad on the MR2s, just to get the G-head.
I'd say that the cams will present potential for a good increase. You might see a slight increase just because your duration is longer (and the VVTi will make the idle livable, as overlap won't occur until where it should), yet until you can get more air in and more exhaust, you won't reach max potential.
Does K&N make an CARB'ed FIPK? Went looking, couldn't find one.
The G-heads have great flow, much better then the F-heads. The CA-market 3S-GE was swapped a lot, when 5S-FEs went bad on the MR2s, just to get the G-head.
I'd say that the cams will present potential for a good increase. You might see a slight increase just because your duration is longer (and the VVTi will make the idle livable, as overlap won't occur until where it should), yet until you can get more air in and more exhaust, you won't reach max potential.
Does K&N make an CARB'ed FIPK? Went looking, couldn't find one.
No offense but you guys seem confused on what a camshaft does to an engine. An intake and exhaust make "potential" for airflow. A camshaft with higher lift and duration physically changes the filling of the cylinders with more air. This isn't a "potential" for more airflow, it is a factual increase cylinder filling. It has no choice but to take more air and fuel in and make more power. Anyways, we'll let the dyno show numbers. These are the most mild cams possible and still on a stock 114lsa. There will be no noticeable difference at idle and the cam will be all but indetectable. So no, it's not going to be crazy numbers. Its mild enough to pass smog even. But there will be an increase in power.
05-02-19, 08:11 AM
#25
No Carb legal intakes are made for the GS that I have found. Some for the IS300 are Carb legal and fit our cars perfectly fine, but the Carb number doesn't cover the GS300. I am running an Injen intake with Carb numbers on it for an IS300, but kept my stock airbox to swap back in for smog time.
No offense but you guys seem confused on what a camshaft does to an engine. An intake and exhaust make "potential" for airflow. A camshaft with higher lift and duration physically changes the filling of the cylinders with more air. This isn't a "potential" for more airflow, it is a factual increase cylinder filling. It has no choice but to take more air and fuel in and make more power. Anyways, we'll let the dyno show numbers. These are the most mild cams possible and still on a stock 114lsa. There will be no noticeable difference at idle and the cam will be all but indetectable. So no, it's not going to be crazy numbers. Its mild enough to pass smog even. But there will be an increase in power.
No offense but you guys seem confused on what a camshaft does to an engine. An intake and exhaust make "potential" for airflow. A camshaft with higher lift and duration physically changes the filling of the cylinders with more air. This isn't a "potential" for more airflow, it is a factual increase cylinder filling. It has no choice but to take more air and fuel in and make more power. Anyways, we'll let the dyno show numbers. These are the most mild cams possible and still on a stock 114lsa. There will be no noticeable difference at idle and the cam will be all but indetectable. So no, it's not going to be crazy numbers. Its mild enough to pass smog even. But there will be an increase in power.
Quite the opposite... quite familiar with what a cam does...
I did say you are going to see an increase in power, as your duration is longer, yet you might not realize the full potential of the cam change until intake and exhaust had been tuned to optimize that change in airflow capacity. Might not... or, maybe... might. As you've indicated you have a CAI, a quick Google shows the Injen/K&N CAI for the IS300 is good for around +9.5hp, so presumably you'll get at least that above stock, when you do the cam. If you're really going to install the cam, I'd suggest doing a baseline dyno with oem intake and CAI, then again with the cam change. Then you'll have (4) data items to draw some baselines for. Personally, I suspect you'll see more then a 9.5hp increase with the cam, for oem vs. CAI.
It will be interesting when you get the cams in, to see if/how idle is affected. I'm seeing you're bumping up another 20deg in duration on both intake/exhaust, I'm not sure how much distance/overlap the intake/exhaust cams have on the GS3 at 700rpm idle. Does CA sniff exhaust at idle only, or do they put you on a dyno for full rpm testing? A little concerned that the 264s might introduce just enough overlap (or additional overlap), to impact emissions enough, to put you over the limit. Yet only installation and testing will answer that concern.
05-02-19, 05:09 PM
#26
Racer
Thread Starter
From what I've read, IS300, GS300, and N/A Supra owners have not been able to tell a difference in idle. And any info I could find on smog said they pass. They are plug and play cams. Very mild. They even advertise them as no tuning necessary. I went more extreme in my C5 vette and still passed. From what I understand, LSA has more to do with lopey idles, not so much a slight bump in duration. I am trusting the word around this forum that the ecu and MAF can handle the cams. I do think it will the more I learn about it. The MAF will still read the air coming in and the fuel will be added accordingly. Should be fine.
I do currently have a CAI and full header back exhaust.The supporting mods to the cam are there and its going to pick up as much as possible. I doubt a CAI is good for any more than 5hp and the full exhaust maybe 10-15. But the cam should be around 25 I'm thinking. Will find out shortly. I could go dyno now and see a before and after for the cams, but I don't want to keep paying for dyno runs. I'm just curious to see what a full N/A build nets before going NA-T.
I do currently have a CAI and full header back exhaust.The supporting mods to the cam are there and its going to pick up as much as possible. I doubt a CAI is good for any more than 5hp and the full exhaust maybe 10-15. But the cam should be around 25 I'm thinking. Will find out shortly. I could go dyno now and see a before and after for the cams, but I don't want to keep paying for dyno runs. I'm just curious to see what a full N/A build nets before going NA-T.
05-02-19, 06:25 PM
#28
Racer
Thread Starter
Oh man, guess I should just give up since I'm not going to make the power that Supra made. Good thing I'll remain California smog compliant as in my original goal though. Gosh, my plan is just falling apart. 
Since most stock 2jzge's make around 185-190whp through an auto trans on the dyno, 210 is right in the 25ish increase I made a speculation of. And that is my grand total speculation with all components complimenting each other. So you're right on my same lines of thinking btw. And The main components of a N/A build are CAI, Headers+exhaust, and the Cam setup. Just because mine aren't as extreme as that Supra's putting down big numbers through a manual transmission doesn't mean you should discount the effort. It is simply toned down a great deal to stay compliant for my own needs.
I know one of your stances is the cost of doing this. But this has been quite cheap as well as enjoyable. My CAI was picked up used for $100, the headers are $75, the full exhaust $300, and the Cams are $650. I do my own work. This has not been a drastically expensive endeavor. Most would agree, $1,000 isn't bad for 20-30 whp of safe dependable N/A power.
Since most stock 2jzge's make around 185-190whp through an auto trans on the dyno, 210 is right in the 25ish increase I made a speculation of. And that is my grand total speculation with all components complimenting each other. So you're right on my same lines of thinking btw. And The main components of a N/A build are CAI, Headers+exhaust, and the Cam setup. Just because mine aren't as extreme as that Supra's putting down big numbers through a manual transmission doesn't mean you should discount the effort. It is simply toned down a great deal to stay compliant for my own needs.
I know one of your stances is the cost of doing this. But this has been quite cheap as well as enjoyable. My CAI was picked up used for $100, the headers are $75, the full exhaust $300, and the Cams are $650. I do my own work. This has not been a drastically expensive endeavor. Most would agree, $1,000 isn't bad for 20-30 whp of safe dependable N/A power.
05-03-19, 05:11 AM
#29
From what I've read, IS300, GS300, and N/A Supra owners have not been able to tell a difference in idle.
I do currently have a CAI and full header back exhaust.
Oh man, guess I should just give up since I'm not going to make the power that Supra made. Good thing I'll remain California smog compliant as in my original goal though. Gosh, my plan is just falling apart.
Since most stock 2jzge's make around 185-190whp through an auto trans on the dyno, 210 is right in the 25ish increase I made a speculation of.
I know one of your stances is the cost of doing this. But this has been quite cheap as well as enjoyable. My CAI was picked up used for $100, the headers are $75, the full exhaust $300, and the Cams are $650. I do my own work. This has not been a drastically expensive endeavor. Most would agree, $1,000 isn't bad for 20-30 whp of safe dependable N/A power.
I do currently have a CAI and full header back exhaust.
Oh man, guess I should just give up since I'm not going to make the power that Supra made. Good thing I'll remain California smog compliant as in my original goal though. Gosh, my plan is just falling apart.
Since most stock 2jzge's make around 185-190whp through an auto trans on the dyno, 210 is right in the 25ish increase I made a speculation of.
I know one of your stances is the cost of doing this. But this has been quite cheap as well as enjoyable. My CAI was picked up used for $100, the headers are $75, the full exhaust $300, and the Cams are $650. I do my own work. This has not been a drastically expensive endeavor. Most would agree, $1,000 isn't bad for 20-30 whp of safe dependable N/A power.
25hp isn't something to discount... you can feel that. If you've already done the intake/exhaust, maybe more. Yet suspect it will impact engine behavior other then hp, also... smoothness, revving, etc.
One of the things lost, from the past, is people doing things themselves, and not paying someone else to do the work for them. If you can get the parts inexpensively, and install them yourself, absolutely amazing.. especially if doing cam work. People at work are amazed when I say... yea, did a clutch last weekend... or, finished up the timing belt last night. My work desktop has always been the front-end of an engine, at the half-way point of a timing-belt job, right before putting the new water pump on... people aren't used to seeing engines in that state...! If you can do all that work for $1k... cool. Just would prefer you could get more dyno runs in...
05-03-19, 06:01 AM
#30
Racer
Thread Starter
Glad to hear that the 264 sounds that it won't hurt idle... gotta pass smog...! Yet if the 264 doesn't impact smog... time to go more aggresive?
25hp isn't something to discount... you can feel that. If you've already done the intake/exhaust, maybe more. Yet suspect it will impact engine behavior other then hp, also... smoothness, revving, etc.
One of the things lost, from the past, is people doing things themselves, and not paying someone else to do the work for them. If you can get the parts inexpensively, and install them yourself, absolutely amazing.. especially if doing cam work. People at work are amazed when I say... yea, did a clutch last weekend... or, finished up the timing belt last night. My work desktop has always been the front-end of an engine, at the half-way point of a timing-belt job, right before putting the new water pump on... people aren't used to seeing engines in that state...! If you can do all that work for $1k... cool. Just would prefer you could get more dyno runs in...
25hp isn't something to discount... you can feel that. If you've already done the intake/exhaust, maybe more. Yet suspect it will impact engine behavior other then hp, also... smoothness, revving, etc.
One of the things lost, from the past, is people doing things themselves, and not paying someone else to do the work for them. If you can get the parts inexpensively, and install them yourself, absolutely amazing.. especially if doing cam work. People at work are amazed when I say... yea, did a clutch last weekend... or, finished up the timing belt last night. My work desktop has always been the front-end of an engine, at the half-way point of a timing-belt job, right before putting the new water pump on... people aren't used to seeing engines in that state...! If you can do all that work for $1k... cool. Just would prefer you could get more dyno runs in...