ChrisK

iTrader: (1)

This is not exactly true. Here you see some people who will tell you to get 740i sport. On bimmer.org people would call you names, ask you if you are feeling OK, ask you to share the stuff you are smoking, or wonder how dare you to compare fine German automobile to some expensive Toyota.


BLW,

To make it short, I don't think so.

BLW

Braking was one of the things I first noticed going from the BMW to the GS. I did improve the GS's braking capability by going to the EBC Brakes pads. I promise you I put that BMW through its paces while I had it , just as I have done with my GS. BMW gets the better brake award.

doug_999

What BLW is trying to point out is that while the GS may stop shorter in a panic, it doesn't do it as well. At least on my GS430, there is a slight pause and then massive braking - not very linear at that. The BMW brakes are balanced and probably stop the car in shorter distances and smoother 99% of the time.

On to bimmer.org...I haven’t been to bimmer.org in a long time. I do remember it getting a little immature and that's why I stopped visiting it. I do however remember it being a very balanced board at one time. The CL board members are a more mature group and more interested in modding their cards than over at bimmer.org - where they tended to want to know how to fix theirs

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

what makes bmw's so special i have had 3 in my time some modded some left stock

the overall design is comaparable to high end jap cars toyota or not ... each car line has there own pros and cons

what matters to most is cost of ownership as compared to enjoyment of ownership(driving car road manners etc)

the high end jap market has that cornered.. bmws and benz's are not engineered to last as compared to high end counterpats in overall cost and enjoyment of owning


just my .02

RON430

Now, now, now, lexforlife. As Doug_999 points out we all know your view without a post from your nick. For example, none of us know where Doug will come down on a bimmer vs anything thread from his nick. But you really don't understand the spirit of these, and the other bimmer quest posts that cannot be posted on bimmer or merc sites because of their mention of Lexus. We must all admit as a given that all bimmers of any year are just in a different class from any other automotive form of transportation. If you doubt that then wait for the next thread that starts with someone wanting everyone's opinion of their desire to purchase whatever bimmer, merc, or audi. I for one could never grow tired of the threads that start with the acknowledgement that we have true auto enthusiasts here who can rationally extoll the virtues of any model without getting stuck on the advantages of Lexus thereby assuring that we will acknowledge the superiority of the bimmer, merc, etc. This evidently happens somewhat less frequently on bimmer and merc boards probably because they are different than us, they own bimmer/mercs while we have to wait for our leases to be up to get a bimmer/merc. Oh, and I expect that mentioning that will forever label me as a narrow minded Lexus supporter who found the bimmer ownership experience (you had three, I had five) to be less than perfect.

Would I buy a three year old bimmer? You have to be kidding. Would I make my priority finding one at a bargain basement price? You have to be kidding again. Would I get a bimmer extended warranty? Only if I hadn't learned the uncomfortable lesson that the bimmer extended warranty paid for a rental car for the amount of time they determined it would take to perform the repairs which was two days in one case. Unfortunately they had the car for three weeks just waiting for the parts during which time I was on my own with a bimmer smile. Did I enjoy what passes for AC in Bavaria on a nice warm California day where I would just be breaking into a sweat with the thing on full (while it worked, which was never very long). To be serious for a second, I will have to give credit to GM along with Toyota as making the best ACs in the world, regardless of outside temperature if the thing is in good working order you are going to be turning it down after a while. But hey, these are just the shallow comments that will be grudgingly acknowledged by some, but by no means all, bimmerphiles here who had marvelous ownership experiences while their service involved only changing oil every 50,000 miles whether it needed it or not.

So I apologize ahead of time for being happy with a Lexus, two in fact, and not just waiting till the day I cna return to the bimmer/merc fold. I do understand that we do not exist in a vacuum and that at least several of the bimmer/merc supporters do have Lexi (isn't it a little amazing how a bimmer/merc owner who doesn't and hasn't owned a Lexus often show up for these discussions and then disappear?) but maybe a separate bimmer/merc envy section could be set up for unbiased discussion of competing cars that I could just avoid. I think the Burning Block would be very happy. Personally, the new five can't come soon enough for me so we can start the "Should I get a new 5" thread. Maybe we should just start it now.

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

ron

again i am misunderstood however understanding where you are attempting to come from


again my opinion and ONLY that ,, a bmw in most cases is engineered so well that it has lost touch with the ability to be driven daily in real world american climates .. these cars were born to run and run free in those european type enviroments ,, kinda like a ferari or lambo , not made for everyday use and abuse

i found this out the hard way with my bimmers and man i had one modded with full ac snitzer equipment

the jap high end market is more geared for a daily american use enviroment and can take a helluv a beating with complaint


back to what the thread was about was this good guy asking for OPINIONS on a potential car purchase
and my opinion was putting a gs , ls , is up against 5 ser 7 ser is no comparision when you look at overall cost of ownership and enjoyment i have read posts on the bimmers sites complaining about these annoying problems and pass the buck attitudes of the bmw svc reps also some have complained about the time it takes for some repairs i even remember one post a guy was waiting upwards of 8 weeks for a part while his car sat at the dealership he went as far as to ask the svc rep if the parts were sent over from germany on the titanic or something

things like this as compared to lexus and lexus svc cannot be compared to the european high end market

LexFather

I do know the 740 in any form is hella sportier than a S, LS, A9 or Jag. I guess I am spoiled and QUALITY and RELIABILITY are #1 for me. I can give up some status and a lil sport.

RON430

lexforlife - Don't think we misunderstood. Guess I just threw another hissy fit at yet another "the bimmer is a fine car but not anywhere near as reliable as a Lexus". All the bimmers I had were bought new and as bad as the experiences I had were (although they were fine cars) I would not be the slightest bit anxious to get a used one, especially one that seemed to be priced "low", there will be a reason. Lexus on the other hand is another story. A used Lexus wouldn't give me anywhere near as much heartburn as a bimmer or merc. And the intriguing gizmos that the Germans seem to be getting so much in love with are just making that worse. The electro steering on the new five is receiving some mixed reviews but the reviewers admit that when it fails and just goes manual, it is fine. Makes you wonder why they fooled with it in the first place. Did somebody really complain about bimmer steering feel? Don't mind anybody improving the breed, I just don't like to pay the price until things are sorted out. Wish they would have spent as much time on the AC but I guess no one every bought a bimmer because of the AC.

Pure and simple, in order to get me back, I want to see those JD Power results at least top Buick. I didn't get any thrill knowing everyone in bimmer service on a first name basis. But back to the original, if you haven't owned one and want to drive what your daddy and his friends drive, go get one. You can always sell it later on. Wanting a bimmer is oftentimes a lot better than living with one.

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

amen brother amen

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

hey sick


as far as jag is concerned a xjr supercharged v8 will top just about all sedans out today excluding m5 2k + edit and e55 mercedes (had the thrill of driving one of those for a day)

darkhorse

Hey again boyz:

Firstly, although auto-boards are prime places to flameroo away, can we please get away from the ad hominem attacks? After reading through the posts just now, I am taking some DIRECT hits from some folk in here but in order to increase the peace I am going to say NOTHING in return.

AIIIIGHT???



BTW, I expect more from CL. CL is a place for kool non-ignorant folks, unlike mbworld and roadflybimmer IMHO.

Anywho, just to explain, when I first got the GS, I was already looking at the 7 and the W140 S Classes (particularly S500). I had enough dough to afford any of them. (If you ask me why I didn't look at the E or the 5, it was cuz I think they suck, plain and simple. The E driving experience is one HUGE letdown (leaving the E55 out of it) and the 5 is WAY overpriced for what you're getting, again IMHO.)

SO, why did I take the GS in the first place? Because I LOVED IT from the first second I put my butt in the driver's seat. And the looks, oh man, talk about baller, you don't even have to trick it out one iota to achieve baller status in the GS IMHO. It was my darkhorse from jump and you kinda know when you're sitting in your car.

Anywho, at the time, I took all kindsa heat cuz I live in a BMW/Merc town and no it wasn't "DADDY" who was talking to me, it was my FRIENDS (all relatively young) who ALL had Bimmers and Mercs (mainly pathetic 3's and C classes but (barely) Teutonic stuff nonetheless).

So in a way taking the GS was total rebellion cuz peer pressure was going in a completely another direction. I know what I like and I won't be convinced to go in a direction my heart isn't going in.

Point being, I am NOT interested in the 740i Sport because of what my circle is saying. I'm interested in it because I am not ashamed to admit I feel it is a beautiful car, just like the 1st gen GS300 is a beautiful car. Those cars just look like classic luxury saloons. The 2nd gen GS is a different kind of car, newer, more current. But those aforementioned cars have the line, THAT *LINE*, I hope some of you can feel me on this.

That said, I really thought about the 7 and then this morning I took a spin in the GS to help clear out the fuzziness.

I made my decision.

I LOVE THE GS. I am not going to part with it. I've got the black interior (without the Nav, I feel that detracts from the driving experience) and the cockpit is just so right there in it, it fits like a glove and drapes all around me. Utterly magnificent. I don't feel that way in the 7. I don't feel as comfortable simply put.

And the drive! Oh the drive! What am I thinking about with the 7? You know, even stock, the GS might be a bit floaty but it can take an offramp at speed pretty well, it isn't as bad as the Teutonic mafia press makes it out to be. YET, it's so luxurious. The 7Sport is harsh to put it mildly. I think the term to describe the Lexus ride is "refined" at the same time as performing wonderfully. It's all good.

(Sorry, I know this is sounding like a Lexus love-in but I'm actually just speaking from the heart about what went through me as I made my decision.)



BTW, when I talk about the top of the line BMW being a factor, what I'm referring to mainly is value for the money. (I know I didn't word it that way with the snob appeal line but I'm sort of a value freak and top-of-the-line signifies "BEST" of breed for me.)

You would assume that the top of the line would have the BEST the brand has to offer, like the LS4 for Lexus. I was figuring I could get enough sportiness from the 740i Sport PLUS the best technology the company brings to the table which you can't get in the Lexus line just yet (the LS just isn't there sportiness wise and admittedly the GS is lacking some luxury features the LS has).

Also, Jag, Merc, simply not on the list. Not interested. I don't care if Ford has taken Jag over, I have heard even MORE about Vanden Plases/XJR/XJS and the like spending MONTHS in shops making mechanics rich in the process. No thanks!



Anyway, I'm keeping my GS400 and I'm prolly gonna keep her for a while now. I'll probably do a bit more modding in the engine bay and suspension. That's where all the money goes with me. The car *appears* bone-stock, I haven't done a thing to the body, but it ain't bone-stock ifyouknowhutimean.................



Stay cool and BTW we should all just be thankful that we are able to drive such wonderful machines. I for one give thanks to God every day for such gifts.

Talk to ya,

Paul

99 GS400 BLACK ON BLACK

RON430

Paul, I hope you understand I wasn't particularly on your case. As for the daddy comments, well I just took from your original post. And as for the snob appeal comment, yours again. I think the biggest issue I have with bimmers, other than the attitude of most owners and salesmen, is the perception of the car. They are not the best accelerating, braking, handling, or comfortable cars on the road. But, they have a marvelous blend of all the factors which is really noteworthy especially for a series of large sedans. When you have one, you find out just how many camaro's, mustangs, and corvettes there are out there and how many are faster than you. But still, the overall blend is one of the best. But the deification, is unwarranted. And, as you point out on the 740 sport, the ride is beginning to get more and more on the harsh side. By the way, this is a complaint I have about the new 745 although I will have to admit I only had it for a weekend and didn't play with the i drive much so I don't know if you can really improve that. But when you have so much, so right, you begin trying to push and bimmer seems bent on doing this and actually losing much of what is desirable in the bimmer.

When I checked the braking distance on the 2000-2001 7 and 5 I saw that the 7 stopped from 60/80 mph in 125/224 feet while the 540 stopped in 124/217 feet, probably directed related to mass. The GS4 from the same time stopped in 119/208 feet. Now, the pedal feel might be different and more to your liking in the bimmer but to say that the bimmer had "better" brakes in stock form than a GS is just plain bimmer deification in my mind. Bimmers are great cars but as some here get accused of being unbiased because they defend the Lexus product, especially performance aspects, are no more guilty than those who blindly defend all things bimmer whether they drive a Lexus or not. Now, here is the bizarre part, if your heart says buy a bimmer, then buy a bimmer. If what makes you happy in life can be acquired with a check book, and assuming you have the right check book, you are one lucky guy.

I have owned five so it can't be said that I didn't stick with bimmer for a long time. But eventually, reliability can come to be a very important thing to you and I just had it with bimmer. I will admit that the fives grew on me but I didn't find them overly attractive but I first saw a new bimmer 7 introduced at a trade show in Munich in 86 or 87, I believe, and I fell in love. And they do deliver a lot, of course they cost a lot too. But eventually the maintenance and reliability just go to be too much and I never kept any of them more than 75,000 miles. One of the fives lost its auto trans right after 50,000 miles which I thought was horrific, and interesting to pay to have rebuilt. Determining what is important to you puts you miles ahead of the game but these are just cars after all. And in the final analysis, how can you really lose being able to afford and have the hardest thing in your life being whether to keep your GS or get a 7? Let's just not try to make more out of bimmers or mercs than they really are. And as an aside, at least when I had my bimmers I really felt they were gorgeous and worth everything I went through. The best I can say for the Bangle Motor Works now is that maybe they will grow on you. With everything else I would expect with bimmer ownership, and the cost, that is just not good enough any more.

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

ron very well said

and darkhorse no personal attacks on you whatsoever , sometimes one needs to get feathers ruffled

RON430

hey lexforlife - assuming this doesn't get thrown out for getting off thread, as a past bimmer owner, how important were the looks for the purchase decision and how do the new designs grab you? Not trying to get pigeonholed any deeper as a Lexus above all fanatic but right now bimmer is getting farther and farther down my list of alternatives.

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

ron

the guy i bought my current gs from leased a brand new 745il sweet like the looks but i feel for the suckers who buy these pre owned and little or no warr it going to cost BIG to fix these puppies , the m3 nice my dream (and it will stay a dream ) the 2000-2002 m5 other than that they dont phase me

bottom line bmw in my opinion is trying to play catch up with the japs on body designs and its not working with the kidney grills

just my .02 and darkhorse no intention to hijack your thread , much respect