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Hello all, long time forum lurker, and after sitting here reading post after post about non-stop suspension vibrations on the 2G GS I'm making my own addition to the list.
98' GS400, vibration felt in my seat and 75% of the time in my steering wheel from 60ish miles per hour and up.
Just for due diligence sake, I'll post everything that has been done to the car. Even though it's easier to list what hasn't been done at this point. All four rotors, calipers, and pads. FIGS Engineering LCA bushings (both LCA and Caster Arm), Prothane upper control arm bushings on *NEW* MOOG arms, Proforged lower ball joints, Daizen power steering rack bushings, new OEM sway bar bushings, a BRAND NEW set of Sparco DRS wheels, a BRAND NEW set of General tires both balanced at a very reputable performance tire shop, that has done multiple road force balances. All sets of tested wheels have used Aluminum centric rings, minus the OEM 17" Chrome wheels which are hub centric to begin with. The car also has had an adjustable steering ECU installed, which helped the feel quite a bit. I've also tightened, and loosened, and tightened, and loosened, etc. the steering pre-tensioner.
At this point, the only original moving suspension parts are the rack, and the wheel bearings. Multiple sets of wheels have been installed, all with similar vibrations. These wheels can then be installed on a different car, show NO signs of being an issue, and can throw Zero's on a balancing machine directly after.
I also have some OEM Toyota motor mounts I need to install, as I've read that can cause similar vibrations. But I have yet to install them, getting on a hoist is difficult with the pandemic currently.
I'm out of options, and I'm desperate. I don't know how much more forum searching I can do, and I definitely don't know how much more money I can spend on this car. I'm really bummed, I've wanted a GS400/GS430 for a VERY long time and its been nothing but disappointment for me. This vibration is literally breaking my will to own this car, and that sucks.
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, photos can be provided, and even more technical explanations of all the common things I've tried can be given upon requst.
As the original owner of my '99 GS400 I can tell you over the last 20 years I've tried everything. Ball joints, brakes, rotors (helped a lot), new tires, balancing, straightening bent rims, motor mounts. Nothing got rid of the vibration completely but it's much improved. I still love the car. It's very reliable and has treated me well, but the vibration is a sore point of the 2GS. Just something I've learned to live with.
As the original owner of my '99 GS400 I can tell you over the last 20 years I've tried everything. Ball joints, brakes, rotors (helped a lot), new tires, balancing, straightening bent rims, motor mounts. Nothing got rid of the vibration completely but it's much improved. I still love the car. It's very reliable and has treated me well, but the vibration is a sore point of the 2GS. Just something I've learned to live with.
I do like hearing responses like this, especially with someone that's carried long term ownership experience. Was Lexus able to get away with this back then? I was a general technician for a Subaru dealership for a couple years, and our customers were always very sensitive to these kind of issues.
Brake rotors are a curious subject. I've already had to replace one, because it developed a nasty wobble very soon after installation. I've developed a brake pulse again, and I'm fairly certain its the FL rotor causing it. Wondering if OEMs, or something like a Centric coated rotor would be a worth while change, that might alleviate some of the vibrations I'm experiencing.
You've hit a lot of the common items but rotors helped mine some as well, as well as paying a lot of attention to the torque settings when you put your wheels on. Over torquing by a mechanic caused some significant vibration in mine in one case..
You've hit a lot of the common items but rotors helped mine some as well, as well as paying a lot of attention to the torque settings when you put your wheels on. Over torquing by a mechanic caused some significant vibration in mine in one case..
Are your Sparco wheels hub centric?
Hey Dave, thanks for the response.
I'll be installing a new set of Bosch (Oreilly's upgrade) rotors tonight, since mine are well within warranty. May as well upgrade.
The wheels are not by themselves centric, they've got aluminum centric rings an all four corners. That's something I've done since square one, so I'll edit my original post to include those.
Just a quick update, for anyone following or anyone that may find this thread in the future.
After replacing the rotor, my all around vibrations have decreased noticeably, as has the shuddering coming to a stop. But I'm still getting vibrations from ~55 and up, seems to calm down a little closer to 90. I'll be installing my OEM engine mounts tonight, and will update with my results then. Obviously anything spinning can be causing a vibration, so I'm trying to mitigate as much as I know I physically can.
I believe my steering pre-tensioner is also too tight currently. I have a very tight "straight line" steering wheel, but then it wants to shoot me off in whatever direction I'm trying to turn when I go to turn. Assuming its a mixture of my own muscle control from being used to how it used to be adjusted, or just too tight in general. I'll be filing a small indexing mark in the adjuster cap, and the rack today, to give myself a solid adjustment reference point beyond the paint marker that's worn off over the winter.
Did you do the work and put your own wheels back on? What torque setting did you (or whomever did the work) use on the wheel lugs?
I need to purchase a low profile 21mm socket tonight, even my chrome 21mm socket was *almost* too large to fit so I haven't touched the other three wheels. I did, albeit carefully, remove the one wheel myself last night, replace the rotor, torque my caliper bracket to spec, and then my wheel to 76 ft/lbs.
When I did remove said wheel, it felt very tight. Maybe 100+ ft/lbs? I'll get a proper socket, and will be redoing all three remaining wheels tonight.
For some reason I don't recall the lugs being 21mm, but it's been a while...
make sure to do it in a star pattern to get the torque done evenly across the wheel. A lot of shops will simply gun them down way to tight tight with an air gun. I always specifically requested manual torque wrench and gave them ft lbs
For some reason I don't recall the lugs being 21mm, but it's been a while...
make sure to do it in a star pattern to get the torque done evenly across the wheel. A lot of shops will simply gun them down way to tight tight with an air gun. I always specifically requested manual torque wrench and gave them ft lbs
The stock lug nuts for my 17" Chrome OE wheels were 21mm's. I'm more than familiar with the star pattern. My show car is a 3000GT equipped with Super Advans, I tend to even torque those in a two-step process. lol
I bought said 21mm low profile socket, and torqued all four wheels down to 76 ft/lbs. It seems to have helped slightly, but at this point with how paranoid I am, I can't say for sure which helped most thus far. The torque, the new rotor, or that final adjustment on my steering pre-tensioner. I do however have less steering wheel shake, which is appreciated. But I can still see my hood vibrating, mirrors, visors, etc; so I know its still there in varying intensities.
The new OEM Toyota motor mounts will be installed tonight, and I'll report back to see if that has helped any of my overall vibrations I've been experiencing.
Are all the underbody splash shields, fender liners and that kind of stuff in place?
All heat shields, splay trays, fender liners, etc are all in place with all fasteners accounted for.
Quick Update: Engine mounts were absolutely toast, completely separated on both sides. We actually had them replaced in under an hour, so that was sure nice. The reading I've done here made them sound really difficult.
The engine mounts have made a huge improvement in the general feel of the entire engine, and it seems to have reduced the overall vibration. The cush-drives (not sure if I'd call them that, I come from motorcycles), bushings maybe? Anyways, the rubber between the transmission and propeller shaft, and the propeller shaft and differential don't look great. I'll probably end up replacing those just as a maintenance item. Otherwise with the current symptoms I have, with the rear brake hardware lightly touching the rotor but only when that side is loaded, I think I'm going to do all four wheel bearings. They're not crazy expensive, and the car has 180k miles on it. So it definitely won't make anything worse, and it'll be something I can cross off the list.
I have had the same issue with my aristo. Changed nearly everything and still have a vibration. Some have noted that it could be the steering rack that is the culprit and the whole assembly needs to be changed? Does your wheel return to center without issue?
If your engine mounts are toast, maybe check the trans mount as well?
If everything is fixed...then maybe its the transmission? Transmissions can also cause these kinds of vibration issues.
The vibration/balance is probably one of the major disappointments in the 98-05 GS. Countless 2GS owners have battled this problem and you will find no shortage of it on this forum.
I’ve owned my 2001 GS430 for 10yrs and pretty much went through every component replacement in the front end at one point or another chasing the vibration.
You know whats had the the biggest impact on my car in reducing vibration/balance issues?
A.) oem hubcentric wheels (I have had two sets of aftermarket wheels and never could get them to stop vibrating even with hubcentric rings and countless balancing)
B.) high end Michelin tires
funny thing... when my Michelin Pilots wore down, I made the mistake of buying cheap tires earlier this year. Tech said they balanced out great and my car is vibrating like an Oregon Trail bandwagon.
I will be going back to Michelins.
When the car had fresh front suspension, oem wheels, and balanced Michelins was when it was smooth as glass.
Do not underestimate the importance of a good quality name brand tire (like Michelin pilot) for our cars.
I dont know what it is that makes these cars so sensitive to the slightest imbalance but I’ve convinced myself that tires matter. In other cars I’ve owned, no so much.
The vibration/balance is probably one of the major disappointments in the 98-05 GS. Countless 2GS owners have battled this problem and you will find no shortage of it on this forum.
I’ve owned my 2001 GS430 for 10yrs and pretty much went through every component replacement in the front end at one point or another chasing the vibration.
You know whats had the the biggest impact on my car in reducing vibration/balance issues?
A.) oem hubcentric wheels (I have had two sets of aftermarket wheels and never could get them to stop vibrating even with hubcentric rings and countless balancing)
B.) high end Michelin tires
funny thing... when my Michelin Pilots wore down, I made the mistake of buying cheap tires earlier this year. Tech said they balanced out great and my car is vibrating like an Oregon Trail bandwagon.
I will be going back to Michelins.
When the car had fresh front suspension, oem wheels, and balanced Michelins was when it was smooth as glass.
Do not underestimate the importance of a good quality name brand tire (like Michelin pilot) for our cars.
I dont know what it is that makes these cars so sensitive to the slightest imbalance but I’ve convinced myself that tires matter. In other cars I’ve owned, no so much.
I agree with the majority of your sentiments, however, you hit the nail on the head when you said Michelins. I have General G-Max AS-05s on both my OE wheels and on my 18 inch TOMS wheels. While I love the price and grip from the tires, they are absolutely impossible to balance even if the machine says everything is perfect. I am a Lexus tech and will be buying high end tires next time around!
05-06-20, 08:40 AM
*Nothing* is alleviating my vibration
