I used the search feature (hint hint) and found this thread.


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i just picked up a CPO 00 GS4 in early august.

here are some recommendations from my experience.

1. when buying a used car, your first priority MUST be overall mechanical/structural condition of the car, and not the color combination.

2. have the dealer print out a carfax report AND dealer service history report. they can search the national lexus database for all the times that the car has been to a lexus dealer for service or mechanical issues. this takes them 2 seconds.

3. pop the hood open: see if there are any non-original welds. since you're at a Lex dealer, if you can't tell, all you have to do is compare the welds on one GS to another right next to it. When you have the hood open, check all the bolts that run up the side of the car to see if they have been turned. If they have, that's not normal and may also be an indication of body work......but compare with other used GS's on the lot in order to make an informed decision

4. repeat step 3 but with the trunk. pull up the carpet, etc etc, look for non-original welds. Non original welds, of course, are indications of body work. also under the carpet in the trunk is a natural area for trapped condensation, thus leading to corrosion. check it out.

5. where the hood meets the windshield, rub your index finger along the end of the hood. if it feels a bit rougher than doing the same thing to a new GS, this is indication of paint work, which MIGHT suggest previous body work, but is NOT a good indication of an accident, because it could be from a branch that fell on teh car, or other minor things, such as a fender bender or who knows what. NEVERTHELESS, this is a good bargaining tool, because any car that has been repainted loses value.

you can also use this test along the edges of doors and the edge of the trunk. (side note: if, when you open the doors, you feel a difference in teh quality of paint along the main body of the car that is normally covered by the door, this, too can be a sign of paint work.

6. Call your insurance company with the VIN number of the car your interested in. Some insurance companies will actually run the VIN number through a special database which indicates all insurance related repairs. i dont' know of any website that goes through the insurance database. the carfax.com website is actually sort of like a "credit check" on a car. i'm pretty sure they even use one of those credit check companies (experion, i think?), which also keeps records on cars. don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure that the carfax report and the actual insurance registry check are two different things. one if for issues related to the title fo the car (pass/fail emissions, new owner registered, etc.) and one is for insurance related claims on the car, but i'm not entirely sure how the two differ, but i am sure there is some overlap on several things being reported to both databases.

7. check the fluids. at the very least, if any fluids are low, it may indicate that the particular lex dealership you are at is more concerned with the car's cosmetic presentation than actual mechanical condition.

8. check the wear and tear of the gas and brake pedals (literally see if the brake pedal looks worn, and compare to another GS with similar mileage if poss.), and especially compare the feel of the brake pedal from one used GS to another on the lot or from one dealer to the next (you should be testinga few). if you notice a difference from one GS to another, you should be able to tell which is in better shape.
excessive brake wear can be an indication that the vehicle was driven kinda hard.

9. TEST DRIVE: 1st of all, have a buddy start the car for you while you stand behind the car. check for smoke. also, the car really ought not take more than a full 3 seconds to start.

explain to your salesperson that you will need to take it on a thorough drive (some dealerships have their sales associates guide you along a "predetermined route." screw that, if they want your money, they can accomodate. BUT in fairness, you should tell the salesperson before getting in the car to test drive it, so he or she has the opportunity to let the manager on duty know.

This test drive means both on the highway and on the city roads (find some rough roads, maybe a parking lot with speed bumps--check to make sure that the suspension is working properly). Check for anything suspicious. A CPO car ought to have good alignment, etc etc. Also, find an area with no cars behind you, and only lightly hold the steering wheel as you brake HARD. check to see that the car stays straight as you are braking.

10. FLOODED CARS: a flooded car can most easily make its way past an insurance claim or a carfax report. first, pull the seatbelts out ALL THE WAY. the bottom area where the seat belt re-coils is one of the most difficult places to dry out, and often never even do drive out. another good test are the rails on which the front seats rest. move the seats forward and check for rust. caution on this, though, is that i've seen non-flooded cars of friends of mine with rusty rails simply because they spill crap in their car. so.....it's your deal on making this assessment.

11. OUTSIDE OPINION: if you've found a car that fits your taste and passes your test for quality, you may wish to have your own mechanic check it out. Many dealerships don't allow you to take it to your mechanic, however, they pretty much have to allow you to pay one of those companies (i think they might be called LemonBusters or something like that...not sure) to come to the dealership and check the car out for you. this is the one thing i did NOT do, but it sure as hell doesn't hurt. I've heard of this costing the potential buyer anywhere from $80-125 to have a car checked out.

12. Personal Advice: never buy a car that has been in an accident. i don't care if they say it hasn't had frame damage or not. down the road, you run the risk of increased frequency of alignment problems, abnormal or excessive tire wear, etc etc. a front end accident is even worse than if the car was rear ended, because there are more mechanical parts up there, and you run a greater risk of having ill-effects from an improperly rebuilt car, or a car that was in such an accident as to render it impossible to restore its condition to as-good-as-new.

same advice for a flood. ya never know what kind of flood. if the car was parked at a beach, congrats you got salt particles all up and down and all over that vehicle that will never go away, can be impossible to remove in many cases, and will just eat at it forever. if it was freshwater flood, it's still been in a freakin' flood!!!! would you buy a boat that fell off an 18 wheeler on its way to the boat docks but just ended up skidding around on an interstate for several hundred feet? NO. why would you buy a car that turned into, well, basically a "sunroof floatation device."

also, for a quick lesson on what is and is not a good used car to buy, go to a CARMAX store. this is a used car dealership chain with lots of dealers all over, but not everywhere. to the best of my knowledge, and having known a couple people who work/have worked there, they sell very clean used cars.

GO TO CARMAX EVEN IF THEY DON"T HAVE A GS IN STOCK. Why? because you need to chat with the salesperson, and ask him/her to demonstrate how they know a car is in good condition. At the carmax stores i visited, they also had a car parked in teh lobby which was labeled "REJECT." it's actually a car that has been in a bad accident that carmax says they would never sell on their lot, but they have it for display purposes to show how you can rebuild cars to meet cosmetic standards but have been in bad accidents. Ask, and hopefully the salesperson will go over the car with you showing you what details about it prove that it was in an accident.

CHECK WITH A FAMILY FRIEND/RELATIVE: ....if you have a friend or relative who has purchased a car from a lex dealership, see if they were satisfied with their experience, and if so, then go to the same salesperson and tell him/her that 'so and so' sent you specifically to him/her. Salespeople LOVE repeat customers and, as such, may be more willing to guide you to a car that they know to be in better condition.

WHEN BUYING THE CAR: i personally would never trade in a car to a dealership. i'd sell it privately, because you can make the most money that way.

think about a trade in this way:
dealer pays you for car. ==1st instance of profit
wholesaler purchases car from dealer==2nd instance of profit
"ma and pa" street corner dealership purchases car from wholesaler=3rd instance of profit.

either way you go about it, if you don't sell the car yourself, you're not making as much money as you should. and remember, in highline cars such as lex, bimmer, benz, there can be $10,000++ difference between what you sold it to the dealer for, and what it eventually sells to someone else for.

ALSO, when arranging payments (if you finance the car): work the price of the car ONLY off final delivery price. NEVER, AND I REPEAT NEVER, let them negotiate the price of the car based on what monthly payments you can make. figuring out the math for this is 99% of the time too confusing for the customer, especially in teh context of time constraints (since, at a dealer, you sorta feel obligated not to waste time, etc).

In fact, your best bet for purchasing a car (NEW OR USED) is to work on the "walkout" price. this is the price of the vehicle with tax, title, license, everything. By doing this, you can avoid any other "service charges, documentary fees" etc etc. i mean, a dealership is a dealership and they almost ALL have BS fees such as documentary fees, but you should just bother with the walkout price.

When with the FINANCIAL MANAGER (again, only if you plan on financing the car), you have now already agreed on a set price. He/she should point the computer screen over to you, and you should be able to view how much your down payment will affect an interest rate (at lex dealer, CPO cars should get same interest rates as new cars). often times, you should be able to choose how long you want to be making payments, etc etc. There are lots of variables in this process, AND DO NOT RUSH YOURSELF. take your time to make sure you understand everything, and be sure to ASK how much, when all of this is done, you will be paying in interest down the road.

go to www.bbb.gov (i think that's the address). that's for the better business bureau. you can use that website (it's free) to check each dealership in your area. Most of the time, every single dealership, whether ford or lexus, will have at least one complaint. That shouldn't be the problem as much as whether it is noted that there are few complaints for the size of the dealership, and that efforts were made by the dealer to rectify any customer complaint. the easiest way to determine a dealer's reputation with the bbb is to see if the bbb notes whether or not the dealer is in good standing, or has something like a "BBB excellent business award" (for example, i don't know if something like that exists)

 

i didn't realize until i saw it just how hideously long that was

 

And long it is Hawk! This is one of the best write up on how to buy a used car (any car) I've seen read.... GOOD READ! You must have done a tons of homework before you get your car, didn't?

Cut, read what Hawk said... awesome write-up...

 

cuts, what part of MD do you live? I live in Damascus MD. I bought my 2000 GS4 in June. Because I was looking for this 2000 GS4 Platnum series white/tan, I found it at an Infinity used cars dealership in NY.

I agree that Carmax is the best dealership. They had very competative price. Lexus dealership is also good, but their asking price is sometime I think ridiculous. If you live in Rockville MD, then Lexus of Rockvile is not a bad place to start. Lexus of Silver Spring I think is a little pushy. They tend to push you in making a deal. But they are not bad either. I tried Pokahans (? spelling) in Chantily VA but don't like them very much. They seemed to be proud that they have more cars than other Lexus dealerships and therefore would not budge on their asking price. Lexus of Alexandria is a little small. They don't have large selection. I haven't try Lexus of Annapolis. You should if you live near there.

Your best bet is autotrader.com. I bought my by searching in autotrader.com. I had to travel to Ohio (5 hours away), few in MD, and finally in NY. So it is up to you to do some traveling. Take hawk500sl's suggestion list with you so you can to your inspection. I want to add one thing to the inspection list is to match all the VIN number on the vehicle: hood, left and right fenders, all 4 doors (not sure about the main body and the trunk. I don't know where the VIN tag for the main body. my trunk does not has a VIN, but it look like new). They must all match. Second suggestion is to test drive the car at 40, then 50, 60, 70, 80 mph. Look for vibration. Few the steering. See if the car is going straight . Make sure it is not engine vibration, which is a no no. Wheel balance is easy to fix. Brake to is not a major problem.

If you live close by, I can spare my time with you in inspecting your future car. I am not a mechanic or car body painter. But I know enough about this GS to get your car. Free of charge. Look at it as I am a GS insane.

Hung

 

I didn't know I would get so much good advice, you all are really knowledgable on cars. I will definently take you up on that offer of coming with me when I am ready to get my GS (which should be next year like march) when points fall off driving record and I save up a little more. what is your email address, my email address is azigi18@yahoo.com.

thanks everybody.
Ihave already printed this thread out and will bring it with me to dealerships.

Was your car CERTIFIED, the one you got in NYC? Ihave seen a lot of good deals in TEXAS, but I know it floods a lot down there, so I dont think I would go down there for a car. I live in silver spring, md and work in chevy chase.

 

i purchased my car in houston texas (where i used to live and spend summers).

when tropical storm allison hit houston in summer of 2001, that, more than any other hurricane flooded more cars in teh last 20 years in houston, and, fyi, some of those cars were tracked to as far as washington d.c., indianapolis, and chicago within one week after the tropical storm hit.

just fyi.....use that info as you please

 

You have to pay premium price for a certified car, and only Lexus dealer does that. The different between certified and non-certified is about $4000. Because of my limited budget, I settle for non-certified one. Your best bet is to deal with those known dealership such as user car dealerships sponsor by their own new car dealership. I bought my at used car Infinity dealership. They mainly deal with used Infinity, especially end-of-lease cars. And sometime they have other make cars of similar price and quality range of what they are selling. You can buy after market coverage, but if you have read some other threads, it is not worth it.

 

Good God some of those posts were long....... going back to the condensation problem in the headlights...I own a 2001 and I had to warranty them just a few weeks ago 8/18/03. Dealer was happy to swap out the light pods...hopefully it doenst happen again

 

last couple details, Sung35 makes an excellent point on checking the doors and anything else for the VIN tags. once a door has been replaced, you can' t put a VIN tag on the non-original door.

i will say, though, that the difference in cost between a CPO car and a non-CPO car may or may not be $4000. when buying a used lexus, i feel strongly that you ought to make every effort to find a good CPO one, since Lexus, as a company, has a greater obligation towards the quality of the vehicle if you buy it CPO from them (plus, Lexus is renowned for their customer service/satisfaction standards).....otherwise, some dealers that you bring your car to for any issues may just hide behind the curtain of "well, this is what you get for buying it somewhere else"

My understanding is that the premium on a CPO car tends to be roughly around $2000. From a business standpoint, most good aftermarket warranties for a Lexus GS would run somewhere between $1500-$2000, and Lexus is aware of this, but they are also aware than any sensible person would prefer a Lexus backed warranty than otherwise. besides, if lexus stamps CPO on a used car, they know that their mechanics have checked it out (and reconditioned/updated/repaired/serviced it), and that the car will almost for sure not be a cost liability to them (hint: offering certified cars was not for buyers' peace of mind, but it's a great profit tool).

bottom line: any car dealership will charge more for a certified car. depends on the quality of the vehicle, costs of repairs, etc etc. If budget is an issue for you, then go with non-certified, but take greater care in checking out the car and reputation of the dealer (i actually would never buy a non certified lexus from a lexus dealer when the car, in theory, has low enough miles and is a recent enough model to be eligible for certification. reason=i bet that a lexus dealer would prefer to sell you a certified car because they know they can make more money on certified cars and that a used car shopper probably prefers a certified car. therefore, there's probably something not so great (disclaimer: could be as little as interior/cosmetic condition) that the dealer knows about the car and why they're not willing to certify it .

Basically, the cost of your car, whether CPO or not will depend on a lot of variables.

1. Were there an unusually large number of cars leased out 3 years ago (standard length of a lease)? If so, then there should be more of that type of car on the used market now, thus somewhat reducing the price of the car.

2. Market conditions: right now is a great time to buy a used car (my opinion). Back in 1999-2000, there were lots of leases going on. (Some say leased cars are in better condition used than non-leased because maintenance and any repairs are always free on leases without question. Conversely, some say that since the driver didn't own the car, he/she wouldn't have a problem abusing the vehicle. Then there's the theory that, well, people who drive a lexus tend not to be the type of drivers who abuse cars [we can start another thread titled "confessions" for those of you currently with evil grins on your face]---basically, for a used lexus, i'd definitely look for a lease turn-in) Also, I bet that leasing is more common in upscale marques because, well, people with money can afford to not be obligated to keep a car by flat out purchasing it.

Furthermore and most importantly, the economy is down, and less people are spending a lot of money; therefore, you can count on ANY car company to be making greater efforts to sell cars (a counter theory to this is that people who can afford anything will buy stuff without regards to the market, but people who can afford anything regardless of the economy are few and far between--according to carpoint.com, the average annual income of a new GS buyer is $128,549--> a good income, but far from anyone who can afford anything at any time)

3. market conditions with SPECIFIC regards to your location: first, everything costs less in the south. cost of living, a burger at McDonald's, cost of homes, ....etc etc. So i realize that my opinion, after just purchasing my CPO GS4 a couple months ago in houston is that the CPO warranty is $2000, but !!!, the costs of parts is the same nationwide, and the cost of labor per hour may also be the same (if not, i do wonder the degree of variation between, let's say a lex dealer in palo alto and one in mobile, alabama)

Next.
***if you're looking at a used car, but want one that you will keep for several years, spend the time (and gas money) travelling up to a few hundred miles away in order to find the right vehicle.

No matter how much money you have, if you can find a good, clean, high quality used car,.......well, i can't think of a reason to buy the same exact car new. Some people just feel the desire to have to have a new car....i guess they just want to be the first one to fart in the front seat or something weird like that. Heck, a big reason that Lexus exists and is successful against the likes of Benz and Bimmer is because, well, even rich people like to save money.
(silly side note[not necessarily representing my opinion cuz i don't want to use this forum for an economic debate, pm me for responses if ya feelin the need] == For those who believe that a good economy can be attained by the 'trickle down' theory of getting more money in the pockets of the wealthy so they'll spend it and help the middle and under classes, opposition to the trickle down theory could look at Lexus as rebuking trickle down. rich and/or well-off people like to have extra cash to KEEP in their bank accounts.....just an idea)

Regards,
Your most detailed, yet apparently at the same time, ADD CL member.

 

I have learned so much from these post. I definently have an idea of what to buy. In your post are you saying, its better to buy the CPO vehicles in the south,because they are cheaper, I have seen a lot of lexus vehicle located in TEXAS, dont know if I could travel that far.