TreysGS460

It was likely me, since I've had to debunk this myth many times lol

That 350 AWD is modified, if you go to the guys channel he has a video when he was stock running a 14.05. he likely changed more than exhaust to do that, sounds like he got a drag wheel setup, which is why he doesn't show the wheels in the modded video.

The 460 video you posted is a GCC spec GS460 and is also modified so shouldn't be used. That 460 has a completely different engine than the USDM 460s and using it to prove your point is very deceiving, since I'm pretty sure you know the difference.

"If you launch that hard on a 460 or even rwd 350 you will spin the tires or kick on traction control limiting the power."

LMAOO lets break this down. You seem to think that all rwd owners are running rubberbands for tires or something lol I'm not really sure why you think that but these are sub 300whp cars. You only need a mid tier summer/performance tire to launch with minimal wheel spin even on hard launches.

I can see your stuck on this "RWD never have traction, thats why AWD wins" but that isn't what your statement says.

You keep saying " IF you launch properly, you WILL win" and thats complete BS. Because I have good tires and your not gonna catch me slippin!

Oro

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Because the traction control is limiting the power.

Think it through - four tires will transfer much more power before slipping than two. It’s basic physics. It’s not complicated, but most people simply do not think through the system design. There’s a terribly easy path to think, “it has more hp so it goes faster.” There is more to it than that.

Oro

The language Trey has used towards @ibidu1 is demeaning and insulting, so that’s what I mean.

TreysGS460

Traction control is turned off in this scenario. We are assuming both cars are able to grip with semi decent performance tires and have no issues. Again these are all sub 300whp cars, I owned a 2IS350 with the really aggressive 4.08 diff and had no issues with traction off. This isn't some unfair scenario you guys get to make up where the RWD cars don't get traction.

Wildly incorrect information. It is widely known that AWD cars actually put down less power at the wheels due to the extra drivetrain loss. This is in addition to being much heavier. And I BEG you to look up the gearing difference between the AWD 350 and a GS460. You might be surprised.

Oro

Nothing I said is “wildly incorrect.” You are being terribly inflammatory and insulting. Yes, AWD will have more drivetrain loss overall from engine to wheels. Which has no bearing on how the system is driven or aids - it’s a distracting point to the question of if the system can be driven faster than a non-awd in certain scenarios. And in other scenarios, it will result in MUCH more power getting to the wheels because of less slip. Less force per tire equals less loss. This is really NOT difficult to work through. You assertion that it’s much heavier is a bit off - the curb weight of the two cars are virtually identical. The difference being about three gallons of gas in the tank. That’s not going to influence the outcome of anything.

Real world, this is shown. The best credible 0-60 times for the two cars, independently done vs. marketing, were:

2007 GS350 awd, Road & Track, 5.3 seconds. Thomas L. Bryant published it.
2006 GS460 - Car and Driver got 5.5. No one has done better

These are the times generally recorded by reputable palces like zerotosixty, etc. This is simply NOT a confusing or debatable point. The theory says one thing, the results back it up. Not surprising.

ibidu1

iTrader: (1)

The only mods that awd had was a deleted cat! There was a regular video of the car, and it showed stock with cat delete running 13.5

On automatic cars to launch properly its best to load up the convertor. You have to up the rpms to get a stronger launch. Hot rodders use aftermarket stall convertors, this brings the rpms high so that the transmission can engage at a higher rpm, putting them closer to the engines peak rpm hp/torque. If you do this to a rwd 460 with traction control off and normal stock tires the tires will burn out. If you do the same to a awd 350 it will lightly/chirp spin all 4 tires. The launch of the awd is faster!

The most important part of any drag racing is the 60ft time, this makes or breaks a run. This is why electrical cars with less hp, are so fast compared to combustion engines cars. The instant torque of the electrical motors give you a strong 60ft time. Which is why a stop light drag race with 460 vs AWD the AWD would win. If it was a roll race the 460 would easily win. In the end its about traction! You can have an 1/8 mile race between a 1000hp car with skinny tires vs a car with 200hp and slicks, the car with slicks will win.

TreysGS460

The weight difference is substantial when there is a 65ftlb torque difference.

Were those runs made on the same day and in the same conditions? C & D states that the GS460 they had was equipped with all season RUN FLATS. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ake-road-test/
All season run flat tires are not even close to a mid tier performance tire and can significantly effect acceleration. Both tests need to be fair and in similar conditions to be considered as proof.

This next point is not for debate. ZEROTOSIXTY.COM IS NOT A REPUTABLE PLACE. There is zero verification of times, no proof, no GPS slips, nothing. You should read what they say on their homepage, they even say that they are not a scientific page they just gather data from other sources regardless of reputation.

And to prove your next point wrong, My GS460 ran a VERIFIED 4.6 second 0-60, so 5.5 is NOT the fastest time. (y'all have been using modded cars in your argument so I can too right?)

TreysGS460

The stock run was a 14.05, and in the description of the 13.5 video it says "bone stock with cats deleted" and then down in the comments he says he has other exhaust mods too. The dude doesn't even know what "bone stock" means so he can't be trusted anyways.

How are you gonna tell me how my car launches? I can hold the brakes and rev to almost 3k before the tires spin.

Lets talk about 60ft for a second, did you happen to see what that AWD ran on a prepped track? I'll let you post the number so it really sinks in.




This is one of my runs in my RWD 460, on the street. Going up hill.

RWD on the street vs AWD on a prepped surface. Can we stop now?

wengr

Thanks for all the replies. Some thoughts: My next daily will never be tracked or timed, so the 1/4 has no importance to me. I want stop light to stop light and roll on torque, and the v8 sound and feel. While I agree that the 350 is certainly the common sense solution - I am not known for making common sense choices. My wife has a 2021 rx350, and I know its not the same tune but that is not what I want. I also do not want awd. So my only remaining question is - will a gs460 have the same build quality as my 2007 sc430? Same as a later 3gs430?

mspearl95

I'd say the build quality will be on par. I've never driven an SC430, but I'm quite happy with my 460.

TreysGS460

The SC430s are really well put together and have also held their value quite well, even better than the GS460 has. I regularly see them selling for more than the 460s do. I think the build quality is better too, since the 3rd generation GS is just below the previous generations in terms of build quality, but still uses real wood and leather throughout the interior. The 3rd gen 430 will have the same build quality as the 3rd gen 460.

If stop light to stop light and low end torque is what you want, the GS460 will crush the SC430.

Oro

Of course, we should take the anonymous assertions of someone on the internet over the best drivers and professional test teams in the world…

No, reality doesn’t work that way.

Trey - The best VERIFIED times for the cars found are cited, with full attribution to the testers and teams. If there is a better published professional result, it’s unknown but would be welcome to see.

TreysGS460

I still haven't seen anything of substance come from your side. I've laid out the facts for you, and nothing I've said is made up lol not sure what your even referencing? Dragy? Its a phone app. not a website. Do some research into it, it provides a ton a real world, accurate, verified data. Most knowledgeable people in this car space know about it...

This is really painful, have a nice day, but I'm done arguing.

mspearl95

the one phrase you'll never hear when arguing on the internet is 'oh I understand your point of view, you've changed my mind!' LOL

Blaze876

iTrader: (1)

Easily 460. with the 430 you get a slower car than a 350, timing belt maintenance, less MPG. The 430 imo offers no benefit over the 460. The valley coolant leak, I have had 2 GS460, 1 with 172k miles and another with 174k miles....never had the issue. Same with the abs module that affects both the 430 and 460. IMO I think maintenance has a lot to do with it. I do a coolant and brake fluid flush every 2 years.

The 460 also has the updated design (front and rear bumper, grill and indicator lights in side view mirrors).

Can't think of any reason to get a 430 over a 460.