Lexusfreak

Fair enough.....let's not forget how old Lexus is compared to Mercedes Benz. If the 2 companies were the same age, including their 'performance arms' of the companies, that would be a whole different story. Performance aside, with Lexus still a fairly young company all things considered, they embarrass the Germans in the reliability department......global surveys back that up.....& if I were Audi, MB or BMW........that would bug me MUCH more than if I could beat a Lexus 0 - 60 by half a second. Plus the get Lexus for thousands (if not tens of thousands less & hold re-sale value better to boot!

flipside909

That was the past. Toyota & Lexus live on the philosphy of constant improvement. L-Tuned no longer exists, and was a product of TRD USA...which is slowly starting to shrink. TRD Japan on the other hand, that's a whole different story. It's all inside politics. The GT line of cars Lexus is planning to unveil is something to look forward to. We will have to wait and see what Lexus has in store for the near future.

DrewSRX

Wow, nice showing for the M35 non-sport. Those places seem about right, but I am surprised that the A6 came in 5th. The M35 got some awesome numbers!

Lexusfreak

Let's see how the M does overall against the GS 300 (both RWD & AWD).

LexFather

lmao.....yup, in 5 years, the leather is worn, the paint is all chipped up and the dealer doesn't have loaners etc etc.....

There is much more to a luxury car than childish 0-60 games.

jrock65

Excerpts from the MT comparo is trickling in:

".... several staffers preferred the RL's blend of luxury and performance, but others felt it lacks the visceral immediacy and tactile feedback to the steering, throttle, and brakes that are hallmarks of a true driver’s car. Second place but barely. You'll find those qualities, and more, in the first place finisher, the Infiniti M35. Though not as powerful as the Acura RL, the M35 proved the quickest, thanks to lower weight and closer ratio gearing. The Infiniti's front-midship layout provides near-perfect weight balance, and the chassis communicates texture and grain that makes the driving experience all the richer. Of course, the Infinity's cabin is hushed and exquisitely trimmed in rich leather , real wood, and techno toys , but look, traffic just cleared. Time to put down the joystick and grip that steering wheel. When the road is yours, and yours alone you'll want to be behind the wheel of the Infiniti M35."

"... like all BMW sedans over the last three decades , the 530i leaves no doubt that it is a drivers car. It has great poise, finely balanced weight distribution, and a turbine smooth in line six, and it tied for first place in Motor trend's figure eight test. So why isn't the 530i the overall winner? We found the middle BMW polarizing, some editors enjoying its harder edges but many flummoxed by the unpredictability of its Active Steering, confused by obtuse iDrive functions, and repelled by its "flame-buoyant" styling. All agreed that the third place 530i offers the least value for the money"

0-60 times

RL 6.7
Audi 7.3
BMW 6.8 (manual)
Cadillac 6.8
M35 6.3
Jaguar 7.8

Apparently, this was the only negative comment about the M:

"....some editors had issues with the layout of the secondary controls for the climate and audio systems on the center stack, particulary the ones atop the dash."

Some other comments on the M:

".... superb weight balance and pinpoint steering make this sport sedan a willing partner on any road you care to choose. No wonder the M35 smoked the competition in acceleration test and tied for first with the sport package equipped 530i in braking and the figure eight test."


I guess Lexus is putting the finishing touches on the GS300; otherwise, they'd have provided MT with one.

Gojirra99

The GS300 will get trounced in 0-60 (probably high 6's) & quarter-mile by the M35. Now if it's the GS350 that'll be available elsewhere . . .

biker

It will be interesting to see a detailed test of the GS and what difference, if any, the various suspension settings have on performance. I would think that a dedicated Sport model like the 530 or M35 would be better than some Sport setting on a switch - but we'll see how swift those Toyota engineers were.

If the GS can manage anything under 7s 0-60, it will be in the ballpark where the other few tenths won't matter much.

The amazing thing about the M35 is not the 0-60 time, it's the fact that it can equal the 530 in slalom and braking with a 300lb penalty. With figures like that, who needs the Sport model. I wonder what the rear steering of the Sport model adds to the performance equation.

flipside909

If you want to use something as reference, the latest generation Solara can pull a 0-60 time of 6.8 with only a 225hp 3.3L 3MZ-FE V6 and a 5spd auto. That's a very heavy front drive car based off the Camry. The old 0-60 times for the previous generation automatic Camry Solara w/3.0L 1MZ-FE and 200hp, 4spd auto was 7.8-8.0 seconds fast for it's time. I have faith in Toyota that the new 6spd auto tranny will generate lower if not a few tenths better than their predecessors for the 6 and 8 cylinder.

GFerg

Sorry if this question was asked and answered, but Flip(or anyone else) do you know why the 350 isnt available in the US but available in Japan??

flipside909

That's a question I wish I could answer. It's all within US Lexus marketing there in Torrance that decided why we only get the GS300 unfortunately. If I had to take a stab at a guess, they will be giving us 3 different engine choices for the GS, they wanted to diversify the line up with different engines for the American market. Even though the new IS is getting the 2.5 and 3.5, it still doesn't make sense to me why Lexus USA would get the lesser choice? I guess the logic lies behind target demographics. In Japan, the Aristo was given 2 engine choices, the 2JZ-GE VVT-i N/A and the 2JZ-GTE VVT-i where as here in North America, we got the 2JZ-GE and the 1UZ-FE later the 3UZ-FE v8's.

biker

So getting the GS350 next year will be a big deal.

Maybe Lexus sees a downturn in the market (I always wonder if this segment has a finite sales limit - are sales coming from new customers or from other brands) and offering the GS350 next year will look like a briliant marketing move, when the competition has already thrown everything in their offerings from the begining and have nothing extra to offer.

Sure, for a little while everyone of the new models can command MSRP and sell everything the assembly line can churn out. What happens next year when the first year hoopla dies down? WIth the exception of the E class, what you see this year will probably stay the same for at least 3 MYs, and most won't change drastically for 5MYs.
Is there a steady stream of 2K/mo customers for all the brands (the E class and 5 series are a bit above that but most makers in this category will be selling around that figure)? The only ones that sold that were E class and 5 series. Now RL, A6, STS, GS and M all will sell that also. So when all the must-have-it-first folks have their cars who's going to be able to keep up the 2K/mo sales? Maybe Lexus is thinking ahead and cars like the GS350 and GS450H will keep up their sales - at the expense of the others.

flipside909

You probably mean are sales coming from repeat buyers or from other brands. It's only obvious people from other brands will be new customers.

There is a percentage of sales to Lexus who are repeat customers. Alot of Lexus sales is done in part by new customers. Which is why they are the #1 selling luxury nameplate in the United States in the last few years. Toyota and Lexus top the charts when it comes to repeat buyers and brand loyalty. Something the other car manufacturers can only wish for at this point.

biker

When I meant new customers, I meant new to the 45K luxury sedan segment in general. If the segment were a zero sum game, all of the increased sales for GS, RL, and M would have to come from MB and BMW and A6. The total sales currently is around 10-12K/mo (7-8K of which is MB and BMW) depending on how many brands one includes. The first few months each new model will have its peaks, but when all are for sale will the total really go up to 18-20K/mo and stay there? Where are these buyers now? Some other segment's gotta be the loser with all of these projected increased sales.

Lexusfreak

I suspect that Lexus 'eventually' (I won't specify a time frame) you will see at least the AWD model with the 3.5L. We shall see what owners say about things in general after the car has been out for the first year.