biker

It seems pretty obvious when the 07 comes out it will be a GS350 and AWD will be available.

jrock65

The GS350 won't create much of a hoopla since most of the competition will already be at 3.5 and the Lexus will merely be matching. Hybrids, on the other hand, are a different story.

LexFather

Well this is what I am thinking.
GS 300 entry-level. 240hp. Important b/c it will be very fuel efficient, and pretty quick (not class leading), better than the current GS 300. Funny but most people in this segment are not worried about high hp. That is not what makes this segment.
GS450h mid level-300hp, 3.5 liter engine with hybrid power
GS 460-350hp

What will happen is what happened in 2001. When the next LS comes out, probably with a new 4.6 liter engine, the GS will also inherit this engine, thus GS 430 becomes GS 460, like how the GS 400 became GS 430 when the GS inherited the bigger motor.

There is no way the LS will remain a 430 when the next model debuts as a LS worlwide in 2006.

This will also keep the product cycle fresh, like it did in 2001.

flipside909

How are you sure on that? Toyota/Lexus generally releases a new powertrain in 3rd year of production. I don't think Lexus will release the GS450h and a GS350 in the states at the same time. They have never done such a thing and it wouldn't make sense. It would be like releasing the new IS250/350 at the same time in March with the new GS...which is exactly what they are not doing.

biker

It all depends on sales. Sure if the GS300 sells good enough, there's no need for the GS350 - but at the first hint of trouble, Lexus could switch to the GS350 which will be selling everywhere outside of NA. I don't think the 450H timing has anything to do with any model - it's kind of out there on its own; like the RX400H frenzy has shown - the hybrid mystique can be sold at any time - even if it's not ready/available.

Lexusfreak

I hear what your saying flip.......however, I think that will be one of the biggest complaints from owners of the 3 gen GS & might force Lexus to do things sooner rather than later.....especially with the AWD model. Just my 2 cents.

flipside909

The small portion of complaints from enthusiasts are too little to justify for Lexus to switch powertrains for a certain market. Look at the big picture and the target demographic for the GS3. People have complained that the Gen2 GS300 lacked power, but it still sold regardless for 7 years. Just think about it.

biker

Sure, at a pathetic 500/mo at the end, when MB was selling 4K/mo E320s without doing anything. As Infiniti has found out, one way to lure badge chasers is to wow then with HP (and a pretty good car overall). While Lexus does great in the overal sales volume, when it comes to the entry level and mid sized sedan segment it is way behind the leaders.
Look at the RL, take away the 300HP/SHAWD and leave everything else and the marketing guys would have nothing to brag about.
Other than reliability/dealer service what else can a dealer say about the GS to lure some customer away from the others? Class leading gas milage?

Lexusfreak

Well what we are discussing has all be 'speculation' at this point....let's be patient & see what happens in the first year of the GS & perhaps we will be able to answer your question(s) better at that time biker! I see your point about the previous 2 generations however.

Gojirra99

Yes, & the previous generation E class & 5 series were able to maintain that kind of sales volume into their final year of production - that's the real sign of success.

That's not entirely accurate. The current ES is the best selling sedan model in the entry level luxury segment (as well as in all luxury models) in America for the last 2 years, until overtaken by the new Acura TL this year, but still maintaining 6-7K/month in sales.

flipside909

The overall package and value for the consumer is what makes the new GS appealing. The target demographic of the new GS appeals to a broad range, not the 5% that only cares about monster horsepower. Just give it some time, the new GS hasn't been out yet or long enough to show sales figures or how it will stack up against the competition. How about looking at this outside of the box intsead of the narrow close minded views you like to always argue with? You perceive yourself as not even in the market to buy this particular vehicle. So why be devil's advocate if you're looking for that perfect Geo Metro?

jrock65

This review has some good interior shots of the M.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articl...infiniti_m.htm

Impressions of the interior:

"In fact, both "M" models continually surprise with their fine rendering of small components throughout the car. For example, the stitching on the seats, the aluminum gearshift base, the furniture-like wood surfaces and the carefully constructed ***** and buttons are among many interior and exterior components that receive an uncommonly high level of attention. The overall impression is one of quality, refinement and performance potential."

"Also available is a superb Studio Surround Sound Bose DVD audio system with digital 5.1-channel decoding and 14 speakers including two personal speakers mounted in the shoulders of each front seat. This system offers such an exceptional listening experience that it will be the subject of a future article."

This is like the 5th time that a review has highly praised the sound system. I'm definitely curious.

saabfan

jrock -- thanks for passing that along.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I think that it's the enthusiast side of our minds that is hoping for the GS350 and GS460 next year, but once you sit back and look at the next three years at Lexus and consider how they typically plan things out, and it makes more sense to me that we will see the new engines at the first refresh like flipside is saying. That's unfortunate, but Lexus is completely revamping their non-suv lineup in the next two years and needs to strategically plan introductions as well as refreshes.

First, regardless of engines, the new GS is going to sell like hot cakes for the first six months. By that time, the new IS is going to come out (september) and will continue to attract a rush of consumers for another six months or so. By that time we should see a new SC (according to lexus.jp), and then a new LS and six months or so later, a new ES.

March 2005: New GS launches
April: RX 400h launches
September 2005: New IS launches
Early 2006: New SC launches
April 2006: GS 450h launches
Early-Mid 2006: New LS Launches
Later 2006: New ES launches
Mid-Late 2007 as an '08MY: GS refresh with new engines and slight modifications.

Obviously that is just a rough, hypothetical outline of the next two years at Lexus, but they are going to have a steady stream of new products and hopefully a steady stream of customers coming through their showrooms. Also, there will be a refreshed RX330 (350?), new GX and LX, and a new $100,000 vehicle, possibly based off the LF-A in this timeframe.

They won't want to detract attention from their all new products by revamping the GS in late '06 for two reasons. 1) It's going to take attention away from the new ES and LS and 2) The third generation GS is going to need some sort of substantial upgrade, where new engines would be ideal and they need to phase that far out enough to be able to revive interest in the car at some point. If they phase it two and a half years out, it will be after the new LS, IS, ES, and SC have been out and then the GS can once again enjoy the spotlight.

The new engines at launch would be awesome, but realistically and rationally I don't think it's going to happen.

-Michael-

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Also, I don't want to be a troll here but without the Sports Package, this car SCREAMS Nissan to me. While the rims on the GS300 aren't spectacular, at least the car itself is attractive. The 5Spoke rims on the GS430 enhance what is already a good looking car. The M looks to me like an upscale Nissan that is beefed up with racey 19" wheels...once you remove those things don't look so great to me anymore. With these 18" wheels the car looks...well...dead.