SpoonSport

I just joined CL after my GS purchase. I also visit freshalloy and temple of vtec (I also own 2 '98 acccords). All the forums tend to bash the others brands nd we have that right. My Accords have 140+k and 102k respectively. I simple can't sell them. The G35c is my weekend cruiser and te wife drives the GS as her cruiser. I don't bash except most FWD domestics. The only RWD home-grown I like is the STS....We know the GS will sell more because it'll appeal to a broader demographic. I haven't seen the target market for the two but I'm sure the GS is aiming at more older males and females.

flipside909

I highly agree with you on that. I have yet to drive an M45. Definitely looking forward to driving one when I can. I definitely would like to drive it back to back with a GS430 for comparison's sake. Unfortunately there is no Infiniti dealer adjacent to Longo Lexus.

Rockville

Infiniti has improved their style and quality over the last 3 years. The G35 developed its own niche and has been well received. The dominance of Toyota/Lexus is illustrated in the owner surveys. It is number 1 in so many categories that it is probably easier to list the categories where it isn't in 1st place. Build quality though it owns. Fewest problems of any nameplate. This is why buyers have confidence when they purchase a pre-owned Lexus. These forums are full of enthusiast who have modified earlier models and they just keep on driving them! Infiniti has not retained the percentage of value better than an RX300. They also wish they had an RX330 in value retention and sales volume. Last year Lexus sold 106,000 RX330's. It is the dominant luxury car in sales for the last 2 years. Infiniti wants to project an image of sport so they made the FX series a Japanese Cayenne. You can compare engine block series all you want yet the GS300's new engine is a masterpiece. The head design is where the action is in technology. Remember Nissan's use of double spark plugs? The new GS engine puts the injector inside the cylinder and right next to the Iridium tipped spark plug. There is a mechanical fuel pump that steps up the fuel line pressure to 1850 PSI. That amount of pressure would put a hole in your hand if you tried to cover it. The intake valves have the customary continuously variable valve timing and so do the exhaust valves making the valve banks very wide for a V6. It reminds me of the old Hemi engines. Lexus only builds normally aspirated engines for consumption and is accused of being conservative while MBenz likes turbo diesels and fuel injected SOHC's with superchargers. Most Lexus will outperform their larger displacement counterparts. After you come up with a winning engine design you must get the power down to the pavement. Lexus gets the most out of its engines this way. The Q45 flagship with all its horsepower is almost a full second slower than an LS430. The six speed automatic from the LS430 is now in the GS but with different ratios. I found it easy to shift and silky smooth. Lexus is quiet but don't be fooled by that. The new all aluminum engine will whine like a cat in heat once you get the revs up. The GS already out performs the M35 and M45 according the Manufacturers data. Wait until it puts the 3.5Liter engine in and it won't be a close race. When Nissan wanted to get into the Hybrid business they purchased a license from Toyota to use its Prius technology as did Ford and now Suburu. They are not in the same league as Toyotya/ Lexus. When Lexus applies its Hybrid prowess to the GS, then the LS etc. it will be generations ahead of the rest of the Manufacturers. Only Honda came up with their own hybrid system and nobody is buying their technology that I know of. The M35/45 looks like a nice car but it just isn't a Lexus.

marcpitch

How does the GS300 outperform the M35? Data? 0-60? slalom?

For the record, I had a 1999 GS400 - Great car. I have a 2003 G35 Coupe - fun car. So, I consider myself unbiased and will make my decision appropriately.

While we are on it Rockville, what was Lexus thinking when they put the boy-racer taillight lenses on the RX? I can understand it on the IS, but come on....the RX too? Thank God the new GS does NOT have that "styling touch."

Rockville

I'll let the magazines do their thing and sort out the skid pad numbers and slalom figures but I was referring to 0-60 times.

The brake lights are LED's on the RX330 which are superior in respect to speed of illumination, brightness and longevity. They also use less energy. It gives the RX a sporty look as do the 18" wheels. The new RX400h has LED brake lights and taillights as does the GS. These are bright in the daytime. The GS has two white LED's lighting up the rear license tag and it looks sweet. The only problem is race boys like to steal the LEDs and even the Headlamp assemblies from the Lexus. They want 'em bad.................

flipside909

Don't forget the most recent customer, Porsche!

jrock65

"The M35/45 looks like a nice car but it just isn't a Lexus."

And neither is the GS an Infinitii, BMW, or MB. Just b/c it's a Lexus doesn't mean it's a great, popular car. Look at the G vs. the IS.

"Infiniti has not retained the percentage of value better than an RX300. "

The FX has better resale than the RX and the G has better than the IS. Look it up. The resale between the M and the GS will be about the same.

"You can compare engine block series all you want yet the GS300's new engine is a masterpiece."

The GS GR is a nice engine. But I haven't seen anything to believe that it's necessarily better than the VQ. There is a reason why the VQ is the only engine to be voted Ward's best 11 years in a row.

"The GS already out performs the M35 and M45 according the Manufacturers data."

Um, this is clearly wrong. Lexus lists the GS300 at 6.8s and the GS430 at 5.7s. The M35 has been clocked by the mags at 6.3s and the M45 at 5.3s. Try again.

Rockville

I misspent my youth driving Porsches at the same dealership that we own now. In those days it was situated in downtown Bethesda. I worked as a lot attendant starting when I was 16. The 911 is probably the reason I love cars so much. In those days we had a 911T with Zenith carbs, a 911E (fuel injected) and the mother of all the 911S. We used to take them through Rock Creek park and you had to keep the REVs up so downshifts were common. You could make the back end creep around in the switchbacks by power application. Those were the days....
Something to consider when you call your dealer for pick up and delivery. I hate when they change the radio presets..........
So even Dr. Porsche likes the Lexus.....That is a real endorsement of technical prowess. Thanks for the info, Flip.

jrock65

"Highly modified platform? It's still an FM platform regardless. Nothing really highly modified about it other than a stretched chassis and revised suspension components. The analogies you just used is like comparing a carrot to an apple. All the Nissan/Infniti models use the same basic VQ35 w/varying Horsepower/torque for their repsective applications and obviously drivetrain layout. Sure the GS and the Avalon share the same engine family designation but they are two totally different chassis, layouts, displacements and etc. There are alot more differences than you think. The new GS and the new IS may have similar features, but they are two ENTIRELY different chassis, not just a shrunk down modded version of the GS chassis i.e the M series on a stretched G35 platform. Read up on your Toyota/Lexus history and you will see which chassis are shared, evolved into or designated."

I realize that I am comparing different components, but I'm mainly talking about sharing components. Just like the M chassis is a modified version of the FM platform, the GS300 engine is a modified version of the GR engine. It is still a GR engine used in many other cars.

Since you're making the argument that the GS300 GR engine is different because it is a different displacement, I'm making the argument that the M chassis platform is equally different because it is a stretched, modified version.

I've already said that the GS is on its own chassis platform for now, something that the M cannot claim.

BTW, interior design and interior quality of materials are entirely different things. I like the interior design of the GS and M about equally, and find that the quality of materials are about the same as well. I prefer the white lighting of the GS vs. the orange lighting of the M though.

marcpitch

I am fairly certain the M35 will slightly beat the 6.8 sec 0-60 mph of the GS300, not by much, but you did say the GS was superior. Secondly, I was talking about the LENSES, not the bulbs. They look like they were lifted off an 18 year old's Civic - no offense to 18 year old Civic owners.

Rockville

I must have a different source for 0-60 times so again I'll defer to the AMCI's of the Autoworld.

I got your drift on the lenses. The Lexus designs in the past have tried to have the tail lights configuration match the headlight pod. The 2nd Gen tail lights used to get a lot of comments with the separate round inner units echoing the front inset lights. The RX300 had individual lamps under a clear lamp pod and the RX330 is an evolution of that look. The IS has the most racer boy influence in the styling cues like the coffee can exhaust etc. The RX300 was purchased predominately by Women. When they redesigned it the Men started getting into the act. Women don't care for the rear end styling of the RX330 and can get quite vocal about it. They are soon won over by the power hatchback and the power wood steering wheel. Men and Women like raw power and are lined up (11,000 plus) for the RX400h. The LED's are what you perceive at night and it will be brighter with both the rear brakes and tail lights using LED's. I expect that to become a popular mod for the regular RX330's. The RX350 will be the next shoe to drop.

flipside909

If you think about it, the current JCE10 platform aka IS300 did come out in 2000 as a 2001 model. At that time, the Infiniti G was the G20 w/a SR20 motor borrowed from the Sentra. At it's inception, the IS300 was leaps and bounds over the IS. Obviously, Inifinit's answer to the IS300 was the next generation Nissan Skyline aka G35 FM platform (goodbye legendary R32, 33 & 34). Of course by the time the new G35 came out, the IS300 was already 3 years old at that point. Give it some time when the new line of IS models come out.

You state "Just b/c it's a Lexus doesn't mean it's a great, popular car."

Actually that's wrong considering Lexus is the number 1 luxury nameplate in the United States for several years running. Because Lexus is great, they've managed to capture a market that was dominated by MB & BMW in the 80's and 90's. Infiniti sales may be growing but only at a fraction of the exponential rate Lexus has done in both of their whole 15 year history. So which brand is really popular and great? I think the sales numbers and % of repeat buyers prove that.

dseag2

That's right. You just keep underestimating your competitors and see how many customers you lose to them. I'm a 4-time Lexus owner since 2001, but I've obviously found that there are other brands that are catching up. And re: your comment about Toyota build quality and being top in the surveys, I don't think that is still the case. If it is, why is a Toyota Motor Company executive interviewed in one of the recent auto mags being asked about how Toyota's ratings have slipped to below the industry average? It hasn't happened to Lexus, but Toyota is certainly under the gun.

Nissan/Infiniti has come up with a great engine/drivetrain/suspension combination, and if they want to use it in every one of their models, the consumer is the winner because it keeps the cost down. They are also catching up to Lexus in quality, and I've found their service to be superior. So, if I went to you to buy a car from you and you said, "The M35/45 looks like a nice car but it just isn't a Lexus", I would head down to the Infiniti dealership for sure. You can only rest on your laurels for so long.

Lexus still makes a GREAT car, and I very well may own another GS someday soon, but I certainly realize it's no longer the ONLY brand out there. You need to do the same.

Rockville

Does Infiniti have any #1 positions in the surveys? These are the owners talking not the car mags or the manufacturers. I concur with Flip and say the public at large has voted both with their wallets and their surveys. I have tried to trade many distressed Infinti owners out of their Q's and they really took a bath. After 5 years a Q45 is worth about the same as an ES300. Is Infiniti out there racing somewhere that I don't know about? I see a lot of modified IS300's come in but that's about it for Lexus owners other than an occasional GS400 that is really staged up. The G35's will have a new Gen IS350 to match with in about six months so hold your horses...

Gojirra99

Hi, dseag2, glad to see you back Yes Toyota has slipped a bit in the recent JDP initial quality survey, but still above average, it's Nissan that's slipped way below average & they are trying to correct that by hiring a former Toyota exec. responsible for quality contol. However, Lexus & Infiniti is still 1-2 in quality