Rockville

I totally agree Spoonsport. It has really been a slugfest. I have new found respect for the Infiniti enthusiasts who love their cars, God Bless them. Flipside and Sick were like a WWF tag team taking on all comers. Remember a few years ago when Nissan has hemorhaging money and went into intensive care? They have clawed and scraped there way back to the fight to their credit. This makes me wonder why Detroit just doesn't get it? The new Vette and the Mustang are good entries and Chrysler has the 300C but why can't they make a worthy competitor to these two cars we've been discussing so passionately? They keep losing market share every year and have been saved by light trucks. Now Honda has brought out its Ridgeline to test the waters. Toyota and Nissan already are deeply embedded in that market. Around my area Infiniti doesn't have much of a presence because there aren't that many dealerships. (Only one near us) Mercedes is very strong and so is BMW. Detroit should hire some ex-Toyota, Nissan or Honda veterans and retool before it is too late. Oldsmobile has already fallen, Plymouth gone and the Mercury part of Lincoln/Mercury is looking pretty sickly.

LexFather

Good points, also, Nissan is really French now. Renault bailed them out. And Carlos Ghosen had his vision and did the ugly things. Cut costs and plants and people. Its ugly and totally against Japanese culture but for Nissan to survive it had to be done. He also realized Nissans had to stand out, they were as mudane as Hondas and Toyotas. Now, we have to all admit, like or hate, their SUVs, Cars etc do stand out. He also realized to become profitable quickly, they had to all share parts. I think by 2010, all RENAULTS and NISSANS will share only 8 platforms. When Ghosen came aboard in 1999 (I think), Nissan had 24 platforms and only 1 was profitable! He also followed Toyota, more SUVs/Trucks. And beat Toyota with a true full size. And he followed Toyota by moving more production to the United States. Consumers have responsded as Nissan is now profitable and Infintii is selling better.

Now lets hope they re-invest in interiors and quality, which are their sore spots. And Ghosen has just publicaly stated they will NOT invest in hybrids as he sees no business case for it. They are also buiding a new Nissan headquarters in Japan, whereas I would rather those hundreds of millions of dollars re-invested in the cars. Toyota has these areas covered and has promised more stylistic cars, their one drawback. And lets hope they bring us some sports cars like Nissan has.

For those that don't know, Nissan vs Toyota is as competitive as Ford vs Chevy or Caddy vs Lincoln or BMW vs Benz. Both companies try their best to out do one another.

flipside909

On the contrary, Nissan did go to Toyota to buy a license from them for the Hybrid Synergy Drive system.

jrock65

I'm thinking that Infiniti should get an upscale version of the Pathfinder to go against the GX. No plans on this, but apparently a smaller SUV below the FX is coming to go up against the X3.

Although it won't be a virtual roadster like the SC, a coupe version of the M is coming within 2 years. The principal targets will be the 6 series and the CLK.

Infiniti will never produce an alternative to the ES. With the death of the I35, they're done with that. No more FWD vehicles for Infiniti. In fact, the ES really has no competition from the import lux makers. The TL (FWD) comes the closest, but it's leaps and bounds more sporty than the ES.

The GTR is coming within a couple years, but a Lexus supercar will probably be out by then as well.

When the IS250 is released, Infiniti should take a hard look at releasing a G25. The 2.5 210hp / 197 torque VQ V6 engine is already offered in the Japanese Skyline 250GT (G) and Fuga 250GT (M), so it shouldn't be that tough to bring it here.

Rockville

I agree with Jrock and add that they should stop the production of the Q45 as it is not a pretty car like the previous generations. Kinda boring car and mediocre performance but I did like the gattling gun headlights.

dseag2

Hey, life is short and the commute is long!

Good to see you're still enjoying your beautiful coupes!

jrock65

Apparently, they are dropping the Q designation after the current model's run. Too many years of failure associated with that name. There will be a replacement, albeit with a different alpha-numeric designation, and probably an increase in displacement to 4.8L or 5.0L.

But the $60k+ ultralux sedan market is much harder to break into and much more cachet/prestige oriented, so it's going to be very tough. Infiniti just doesn't have that kind of name recognition yet. The new M is a step in establishing more brand cachet.

spwolf

Sorry but this is one stupid thread. Any thread you have passionate people putting other brand down is stupid.

And the whole starter post was stupid - i mean so if M35 and 45 have same options, that means Lexus cant do better? What kind of thinking is that? Isnt it more realistic to think that GS430 is pretty cool to have some of the most advanced technology available in the cars today?

Truth is that Lexus does not care nor it needs to care about lower end of the market. Thats why Lexus can do what they do - offer more equipment and more of an car for... more! In fact, Lexus could have easily offered base GS as well, as an standard choice and in that case, M35 would be actually only slightly cheaper and still have less equipment and features. But they dont care about getting maximum sales at any cost.

Thats what everyone has to understand, Lexus is with big boys now. It is the biggest selling luxury brand in the US, and its most popular model is significantly more expensive than most popular BMW or MB. They have reached magical number of 300,000 sales and if anything, they have to make sure that they retain the luxury image, which means that every new Lexus will be more luxurios and more expensive than before. They simply dont want to do significantly more than 300,000 sales because there is an risk of dilluting of brand image.

You would do well to expect IS to follow the suit as well, it wont be cheaper than comparable BMW or MB model.

And unlike MB or BMW, Lexus does not need to sell million cars world wide in order to have development money, they have Toyota :-). So they dont risk what BMW has risked with 1 series or MB with A class.

Infinity is on the other hand, in their grow zone. Obviously their sales are a lot less than what they strive for, so yeah, their cars will be cheaper so they can sell more.

And if you like M35 better than GS, goodie for you! I expect you will be able to see where the extra price went, if you examine both cars in bigger detail...

LexFather

I agree with you 99%. Lets just not call peoples thoughts stupid. That is the 1% I don't agree with. Otherwise, your review is on point. Lexus is a top tier brand and states it is going after BMW or Benz sometimes with a model. Lexus also re-invented the luxury vehicle with the RX. In reading the "Lexus Story" or "Lexus the Relentless Pursuit" the company simply tries to build the best cars/SUVs in the world. What a simple task

Funny I was re-reading one today and the original LS 400 weighed 3750 lbs and the Q45 weighed 4050lbs. Funny but 16 years later, the GS 430 weighs 3740 and the M45 4010.

flipside909

Even the GS is heavier than the IS. Extra HP is needed to propel the car. Definitely not a bad thing but thought it would be worth mentioning.

LexFather

Sorry, I didn't get u there?

spwolf

he didnt understand that you were trying to point out how GS430 is still up on the engineering and lighter than M45, same as with LS before...

we got you dude...

flipside909

I meant the G35 compared to the IS. wha wha wha!

LexFather

Ha ha ha, okay, thanks. (time to go eat)

jrock65

The lighter weight of the GS vs. the M is what most impresses me about the GS. Ghosn has said that one of his goals in the future was to shave 10% off the weight of Infinitis.

The M's are still the fastest cars in the class, so it's not absolutely necessary, but less weight is always good. Helps with handling as well.