marcpitch

I have been looking closely at both six cylinder variants from Lexus and Infiniti and the following recently occurred to me. While we all know the Infiniti M's will sell for less than the Lexus GS', by about $2,000-3,000 similarly equipped, it seems that that gap is even bigger with the SIX CYLINDER versions.

Here is why. There is no limitation on technology available with the Infiniti's, while one could not get the GS300's with the same tech. features as the GS430. The Journey and Tech. packages with the M give you all the same features with the M35 as the M45. As a result, one gets much more for their money when buying the M35 (sport, lux, or AWD) vs. the GS300 (RWD or AWD).

Of course, this only makes a difference, if one likes both body styles, interiors, etc., and could live happily with either car. It seems like the tech. innovations in both cars are far from identical, but the Lexus GS300's do not offer their's as options. This only came to my attention from various posts on CL in the last 2 weeks.

I am really on the fence with these cars and have not even determined whether I would get the 6 or 8 cylinder version of either. However, I thought I would throw this out there for those comparing the 6 cylinder M or GS.

For those that are tempted to inform me that the Lexus will hold its value, I know. However, the Infiniti will hold its own as my G35 coupe has done surprisingly well. As more information comes in, the more I am on the fence. Next step, test driving the new GS next week.

LexFather

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...light=m35%2F45

That explains how the M35 is cheaper, it was cheaper to build. Infiniti also has a $65 million ad campaign for this car, they expect to sell 20k of these a year so that is around $3,500 spent on advertising for each car sold. That was built into the price. So the car could even be cheaper.

Sharing parts has been the key to Nissans revival. This car is no different. If the GS shared parts with a Toyota Celica (like Infiniti and the 350Z) the GS would be much cheaper.

Much more for your money depends on who the buyer is. Many don't care about parts sharing and can't tell the difference in leather and plastics etc. Some people think value is being the best built car in its class yet still cheaper than the Germans. Remember, the GS is going after and cheaper than the Germans IE/5). The M35/45 was not on the radar.

There is room for both these cars in the segment and Infiniti will have a hit on their hands. If people bought 400 of the OLD M45 a month, clearly, they can sell near 2k cheaper M35s and better M45s this time around.

Rockville

You have already pointed out that Lexus has better resale. That negates any "advantage" that the Infiniti seemingly has. More importantly is which car do you prefer? Until I had driven the GS300 and 430 I really couldn't comment except for feature content. I haven't driven the M35 or 45 yet. I will say that the new GS is a paradigm shift for Lexus which is as important as the original LS400 in significance. Infiniti has had higher horsepower in their engines before and still less performance. Acura and Infiniti now want to be the performance high line Japanese cars. The GS will shut down the Infinti M so why pay more for less in the long run? The RL will out accelerate the GS300 which it should (3.5L) while there aren't any V8 Acura sedans to compare with. After driving the two cars you will either lean on way or the other and then all of these other comparison become only tiebreakers. The most impressive feature of the new GS to me is the drive, everything else is secondary.

What features were you missing on the GS300 that were important to you? A GS300 AWD in our region has the same feature content. The only diferences are the VDIM, the VGRS, and the Hughes brakes. These are pretty invisible but meaningful features. Is that what you mean?

frebay

Did you drive the regular GS 300? Any comments on that?

jrock65

"You have already pointed out that Lexus has better resale. That negates any "advantage" that the Infiniti seemingly has."

Disagree. The G and FX have outstanding resale, best in class. Better than the IS or RX. My guess is that the M will have outstanding resale as well, equaling or bettering the GS.

"Infiniti has had higher horsepower in their engines before and still less performance."

This is only true regarding the Q vs. the LS. The IS and RX cannot even touch the performance of the G and the FX.

"The GS will shut down the Infinti M so why pay more for less in the long run?"

Neither car will be "shutting" each other down. The GS will find buyers leaning more towards luxury and the M will find buyers leaning more towards sport. The M will be cheaper in the long run, because of the cheaper price. There are some gas savings in the GS though.

jrock65

True, the M does share more components with other cars than does the GS and that is partly why it is cheaper. The VQ engine is used in a lot of cars. However, the M platform is a heavily modified version of the FM platform used in the Z.

That said, the GR engine in the GS is used in many other cars as well, such as the Avalon, 4Runner, upcoming IS, and Japanese Crown. I wouldn't be surprised if the the ES, Camry, RX, and Highlander eventually get the engine as well. For now, the GS is on its own platform, but I believe that the next IS will be riding on a shortened version of the GS platform.

Another factor in the price is the badge premium. Lexus just has more cachet than Infiniti.

My guess is that about $1500 of the $3000 price difference comes from more component sharing of the M, and the other $1500 is the Lexus cachet premium.

flipside909

The VQ35 is a 3.5L V6 for many cars like the Altima, Maxima, 350Z, Quest, Murano, old Pathfinder, old Frontier, G35, M35 and etc.

The GR series engine has a variation of displacement and technologies. You have the 1GR-FE (4Runner/Tacoma), 2GR-FSE (Avalon, IS350, GS350, 3GR-FSE (GS300, Mark X, Crown), 2GR-FSE (Crown, IS250), etc.

What' you're forgetting here is that Toyota/Lexus may have used the same engine family designation, but they are totally different displacement and utilization of technologies compared to the same old VQ35 in most of the Nissan/Infiniti line. They are all on unique platforms. The GS, Mark X and Crown are on different chassis using similar engine setups. But they are far from being related or the same. They may have similarities but they are totally different unlike it's competitor using the same platform on different vehicles with different engines and drivetrain configurations. Nissan couldn't afford to do the variations or carry the line up that Toyota/Lexus has. The VQ and the FM platform variations work for Nissan which definitely isn't a bad thing. But to say I have a Luxury car i.e. M35, you can say that it has a VQ35 that's found in more than half of Nissan's lineup. Sure you have a fast car in their respective classes, have build quality and materials that's no better than a Nissan Altima, where's the edge in that?

SpoonSport

The M35 is going to do well. I own a G35c and love it. I had sedan as well before trading for the GS 430. Like many here, I'm on the fence. You guys have an advantage over me. I'm in Afghanistan for another three months. Both cars will be out then and I plan to order one as soon as I get on the ground....I miss Hawaii. But those that bash Infiniti for engine sharing...look towards BMW. Their inline-6 has been the target for the last decade. Even Lexus tried to mimick the 3-series but failed. As soon as the IS came out the 3 evolved. Lexus makes an outstanding luxo-sport but has had a tough time in the sport-sedan market. I believe my driveway will have a GS and M-35 this summer. So I'll be able to continue this arguement by myself :-)

Gojirra99

I've been in a M35X, build quality & materials definitely better than an Altima . . .

jrock65

Like I said, the M has more engine/platform sharing. But some would have you believe that the GR engine in the GS is totally unique, which isn't true. It is part of the GR family, tweaked for different displacement. The 3.5 VQ has more displacement sharing, but it is tweaked for different applications in different cars.

Personally, I'd rather have the more "shared" 3.5 VQ in the M35 than the less "shared" 3.0 GR in the GS300.

As I've said many times, the M has more engine/platform sharing than the GS. That is PART of why it is cheaper. The other part is Lexus prestige and cachet, which they've worked hard to earn and rightfully deserve.

"Sure you have a fast car in their respective classes, have build quality and materials that's no better than a Nissan Altima, where's the edge in that?"

Obviously, you've never been in an M or it's just your Lexus fanaticism talking. The build quality and materials between the M and the Altima is not even in the same league. The M has been getting rave reviews for its build and interior quality.

The M (modified FM) and Altima (FFL) are also on entirely different platforms.

As I said, the M uses a highly modified version of the FM platform found in the G. Relatively speaking, there are more differences between the G platform and the M platform than between the Avalon engine and the GS engine.

SpoonSport

This is "deja vu all over again"....Remember the STI vs EVO-8 battles. Well now we've raised the stakes and maturity level. No One is gonna lose. Its coming down to price and appeal for me. The performance should be close. And if you're driving a M or GS chances are you're not drag racing. Both cars have cosmetic issues for me. The GS is not that masculine and the M looks a lot like the Max/ Altima. It's gonna take a personal look and drive. I can currently get the M at an outstanding price, at invoivce. I cn even make $$$$ if I were to sell the coupe. Infiniti of Hawaii made me some great deals!!!!!

flipside909

I never said the 3GR in the GS was unique, but I do like the idea that Toyota has different displacement cars for different platforms to differentiate itself from the other. Even though the VQ35 is tweaked for other platforms, it still is a VQ35. I have nothing against that at all like I said previously. Personally i'd rather own any Toyota product over a Nissan. And I do prefer some Nissan products over a Honda and vice versa. The point is each vehicles have their weakpoints and both have their strong points. The new M and GS are definitely something to be excited about. I just prefer the GS over the M.

You are right. I don't disagree with you with that.

I've been in the new M and sat in every seat, driver, passenger, and all the rear seats. I favor the exterior more than the interior. I never was a fan of the heralded "clock" Jonathan Pryce used to emphasize in older Infiniti commercials btw. I have sat in the new M's interior extensively at the recent Los Angeles Auto Show and don't find the "ATM/Piano Keyboard" styled dash intuitive or pleasing to the eye. It's sort of like that turntable/barrel you find in the Nissan Quest, or the pointless skyroof in the new Maxima. Different yes, intuitive or ergonomic? More stylish and gimmicky in my opinion. I will have to defer to Lexus & dare I say Acura models for egronomic layout. But leave that to a discussion in Car Chat.

Maybe I should have made the comparison of the G35's interior to the Altima? Regardless, it still doesn't match up in overall quality compared to it's direct competitors if you were to compare Lexus to Infiniti or dare I say Toyota to Nissan.

M, FM, FFL and etc.different platforms, same base motor architecture. VQ35. Will Nissan/Infiniti ever capture the sales, value, prestige and consumer loyalty? They're trying but they can only dream of a fraction of what Toyota & Lexus does in North America let alone worldwide.

Highly modified platform? It's still an FM platform regardless. Nothing really highly modified about it other than a stretched chassis and revised suspension components. The analogies you just used is like comparing a carrot to an apple. All the Nissan/Infniti models use the same basic VQ35 w/varying Horsepower/torque for their repsective applications and obviously drivetrain layout. Sure the GS and the Avalon share the same engine family designation but they are two totally different chassis, layouts, displacements and etc. There are alot more differences than you think. The new GS and the new IS may have similar features, but they are two ENTIRELY different chassis, not just a shrunk down modded version of the GS chassis i.e the M series on a stretched G35 platform. Read up on your Toyota/Lexus history and you will see which chassis are shared, evolved into or designated.

I'm not here to argue with you. Just trying to layout facts rather than opinion. You may be Nissan/Infiniti biased or Toyota/Lexus biased, but you're conveying your not so complete findings and info to a Lexus forum.

flipside909

I've been in a G35 and build quality and materials parallel the Altima.

flipside909

Haha well it's a discussion forum. Everyone will have their personal favorites. I agree with you no one is gonna lose because it's up to the buyer to decide which vehicle he or she wants. It's definitely a buyers market and there are alot of great choices there. But you will find that posts tend to be more Lexus biased her obviously...since we are in "Club Lexus". I agree w/you, the average GS or M buyer is not going to be drag racing. I am one of those inclined to performance, but practicality and quality are on the top of my list for a vehicle of this caliber. So what's the point of having a luxury vehicle biased toward performance and the most HP in it's class when most of the buyers will never explore the full potential of their engines when they only intend to drive to and from point A & B?

DrewSRX

I think it is fair to sum-up that the M and GS will find their own unique buyers. 90% of people who will be buying these cars will not be disscussing it on a Lexus or Infiniti forum. They will buy whatever they like, no matter what people say.

On a side note, I got a chance to take the new M45 Sport and M35 out for a spin, it was a total blast! These things are drivers cars, no doubt.

Black Obsidian with Sports package looks superb on this car IMO: