Question about GS Manual Mode
02-16-05, 05:12 AM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
To Infiniti and beyond....
Hey Marc, sometimes I'm over the top and have a sick sense of humor. I don't mean to be offensive. Heck, I'm just another car salesman. Enjoy life and whatever you drive, Peace.
02-16-05, 06:19 AM
#17
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I want to Love the New GS
Good morning all. I was thrilled to see additional responses to my post. Rockville, thank you for trying to educate me and to all others thanks for such well thought-out posts.
Rock, I want to understand this. Your posts alone have sent me to another dealer tomorrow to again drive the GS300 RWD. I greatly appreciate your knowledge and enthusiasm for your products. In fact, I am really annoyed with an Infiniti salesman who is so matter-of-fact about showing or selling me an M. Most people hate “high pressure” car salespeople. However, I hate the opposite – salespeople who don’t seem to give a *****. You obviously care very much about what you do. Having been in sales and taught sales for years, I appreciate your gusto.
That being said, I am not sure I completely understand what is going on with this gear number on the dashboard. To answer some of your questions: I put it in manual and leave it there while driving, shifting appropriately. I am not trying to beat any 0-60 times. I use the manual to better control the car and downshift so I don’t use the brakes as much. I am looking at moving from my Infiniti coupe because my family has grown and I need more room. The good news is my wife is onboard with my spending $50,000+ for a car after only 2+ years with the coupe. The bad news is she said I need to keep this one 20 years!
To clarify again: When moving the GS shifter from PARK to the manual gate, a ‘5’ shows up on the dashboard gear display. You are saying that if I give it gas at that point, I am not in 5th, but in 1st gear? I have a call in to a Lexus dealer friend in another state to ask him about this. I REALLY do want to like this car. I loved my 99 GS400. Look at my previous posts and you will see how eagerly I waited for this car.
To those I amused, I guess it is for various reasons. Some of you would never use the manual feature of the transmission. So, I suggest you people ignore this entire thread. Some of you feel I am raining on your parade; I am talking about the car, not YOU, so don’t take it personally. And, some of you are intoxicated with new car smell and don’t even know what month it is
.
Rock, I want to understand this. Your posts alone have sent me to another dealer tomorrow to again drive the GS300 RWD. I greatly appreciate your knowledge and enthusiasm for your products. In fact, I am really annoyed with an Infiniti salesman who is so matter-of-fact about showing or selling me an M. Most people hate “high pressure” car salespeople. However, I hate the opposite – salespeople who don’t seem to give a *****. You obviously care very much about what you do. Having been in sales and taught sales for years, I appreciate your gusto.
That being said, I am not sure I completely understand what is going on with this gear number on the dashboard. To answer some of your questions: I put it in manual and leave it there while driving, shifting appropriately. I am not trying to beat any 0-60 times. I use the manual to better control the car and downshift so I don’t use the brakes as much. I am looking at moving from my Infiniti coupe because my family has grown and I need more room. The good news is my wife is onboard with my spending $50,000+ for a car after only 2+ years with the coupe. The bad news is she said I need to keep this one 20 years!
To clarify again: When moving the GS shifter from PARK to the manual gate, a ‘5’ shows up on the dashboard gear display. You are saying that if I give it gas at that point, I am not in 5th, but in 1st gear? I have a call in to a Lexus dealer friend in another state to ask him about this. I REALLY do want to like this car. I loved my 99 GS400. Look at my previous posts and you will see how eagerly I waited for this car.
To those I amused, I guess it is for various reasons. Some of you would never use the manual feature of the transmission. So, I suggest you people ignore this entire thread. Some of you feel I am raining on your parade; I am talking about the car, not YOU, so don’t take it personally. And, some of you are intoxicated with new car smell and don’t even know what month it is
.
02-16-05, 06:56 AM
#18
Maybe I can help, the same thing happens on my 98 GS with manual shift. ONce you put it in Manual a 5 will show up on the dash.
Think of the number on the screen as denoting the highest gear the car will shift into on its own. The car will still start out in 1st and shift on its own up to 5. Its not like a manual where the car is locked into that particular gear.
Lets say we eshift into 3rd and start from a stop. The car will shift on its own through the gears starting with 1 and moving up to 3rd. It will not go past third no matter how high the rpms get. But if you come to a stop it will down shift as you are slowing untill you come to a stop and are again back in first. Mind you the display will say 3 the entire time.
HOpe that helps
Think of the number on the screen as denoting the highest gear the car will shift into on its own. The car will still start out in 1st and shift on its own up to 5. Its not like a manual where the car is locked into that particular gear.
Lets say we eshift into 3rd and start from a stop. The car will shift on its own through the gears starting with 1 and moving up to 3rd. It will not go past third no matter how high the rpms get. But if you come to a stop it will down shift as you are slowing untill you come to a stop and are again back in first. Mind you the display will say 3 the entire time.
HOpe that helps
02-16-05, 06:59 AM
#19
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Well Morris beat me to it. Anyway.
I haven't driven the 2006 GS, so I am not that familiar with it, but I have a 2002 GS 430, although I don't believe it is that different in relation to this question, just an extra gear (6th) .
Think of it like an auto tranny in your run of the mill Buick. When you shift the lever into D ("Drive") you are not in 4th (L1, 2, 3, D) when you come to a stop, but rather 1st. And then as you accelerate it runs thru the gears and shifts at the appropriate shift points.
In my GS, if I put the lever in 5 after starting the car, I am in 1st. Same holds true whether I am in 4, 3, or 2. From a dead stop it is still in 1st. But by having it in 4 rather than 2 means that the tranny will automatically take me to 4th, but if I only have it in 2, it will only goes as far as 2nd until I tell it to go to 3rd by shifting the lever. Rarely do I need to go below 3rd, which is what I start in when in heavy traffic and will shift to 4th once I hit cruising speed. Rarely do I ever see 5th in city street drving since I like to keep the car in or near the power band.
Hope that helps?
Originally Posted by marcpitch
To clarify again: When moving the GS shifter from PARK to the manual gate, a ‘5’ shows up on the dashboard gear display. You are saying that if I give it gas at that point, I am not in 5th, but in 1st gear?
Think of it like an auto tranny in your run of the mill Buick. When you shift the lever into D ("Drive") you are not in 4th (L1, 2, 3, D) when you come to a stop, but rather 1st. And then as you accelerate it runs thru the gears and shifts at the appropriate shift points.
In my GS, if I put the lever in 5 after starting the car, I am in 1st. Same holds true whether I am in 4, 3, or 2. From a dead stop it is still in 1st. But by having it in 4 rather than 2 means that the tranny will automatically take me to 4th, but if I only have it in 2, it will only goes as far as 2nd until I tell it to go to 3rd by shifting the lever. Rarely do I need to go below 3rd, which is what I start in when in heavy traffic and will shift to 4th once I hit cruising speed. Rarely do I ever see 5th in city street drving since I like to keep the car in or near the power band.
Hope that helps?
Last edited by WhiteTiger; 02-16-05 at 07:04 AM.
02-16-05, 07:31 AM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
GS300 care and feeding etc....
This morning while shaving I was thinking about this experiment that Porsche tried once. It was called Sportamatic. It had a very conventional looking shift lever but no clutch. When you barely touched the lever it went into neutral and if you moved it to another gear it would shift just like a stick. Boy was that tricky to get used to. You just couldn't hold onto the stickshift or it might drop out of gear. It was much harder than a manual and it didn't last long. Things have come a long way since then.....
Back to the Lexus. The new GS 6 speed automatic is a newer version of the LS430 ('04-'05) and is operated the same way. There is a horizontal change of position of the shift lever when going from Drive over to Sequential. When you are in Drive there is no reference available about what gear you are in. The most likely scenario for use of the Sequential +/- slot is down shifting for a turn or for passing. The advantage of dropping down a gear is that it can give you more control and at the apex of the turn more horsepower/torque available for exiting the turn. If you instead left it in automatic it might feel sluggish coming out of the turn. So now when you leave Drive and go into the "S" slot it will display 5 in the little window. The alternative which was in the GS400 early production was to move over to overdrive (5th on that tranny was overdrive) and fire the steering wheel buttons until you got to the gear desired. It didn't go over to second from drive. If the new six speed worked the same way then when you pulled into "S" it would be in 6th. Since it is likely that you are downshifting Lexus has made the first shift to 5th for you. ( at highway speed) If the downshift was not what you were asking for than you need to bump the lever forward and it will spring back to the middle and you're back in 6th. Letting the Rev's be your guide you can drop it down to 4th or 3rd if necessary. It won't let you over Rev the engine but some effort should be made to select an appropriate gear. The only time you might need to shift all the way down to first is entering short radius turns after a straight away and you are braking and downshifting to a much slower speed. For a person like you just leave it the the Sequential slot 100% of the time there is no downside to this and you can drive it like a manual all you want. You will probably use more gas this way if you are shifting this way. When you're wife and family are on board just keep it smooth and don't shift as much. Wink..Wink
Back to the Lexus. The new GS 6 speed automatic is a newer version of the LS430 ('04-'05) and is operated the same way. There is a horizontal change of position of the shift lever when going from Drive over to Sequential. When you are in Drive there is no reference available about what gear you are in. The most likely scenario for use of the Sequential +/- slot is down shifting for a turn or for passing. The advantage of dropping down a gear is that it can give you more control and at the apex of the turn more horsepower/torque available for exiting the turn. If you instead left it in automatic it might feel sluggish coming out of the turn. So now when you leave Drive and go into the "S" slot it will display 5 in the little window. The alternative which was in the GS400 early production was to move over to overdrive (5th on that tranny was overdrive) and fire the steering wheel buttons until you got to the gear desired. It didn't go over to second from drive. If the new six speed worked the same way then when you pulled into "S" it would be in 6th. Since it is likely that you are downshifting Lexus has made the first shift to 5th for you. ( at highway speed) If the downshift was not what you were asking for than you need to bump the lever forward and it will spring back to the middle and you're back in 6th. Letting the Rev's be your guide you can drop it down to 4th or 3rd if necessary. It won't let you over Rev the engine but some effort should be made to select an appropriate gear. The only time you might need to shift all the way down to first is entering short radius turns after a straight away and you are braking and downshifting to a much slower speed. For a person like you just leave it the the Sequential slot 100% of the time there is no downside to this and you can drive it like a manual all you want. You will probably use more gas this way if you are shifting this way. When you're wife and family are on board just keep it smooth and don't shift as much. Wink..Wink
02-16-05, 08:53 AM
#21
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All this is similar to my MB SLK32 with automatic. It shows "D" (5th) unless you manually shift it down. I've gotten so used to that capability I use it more than I thought I would and I keep wanting to downshift my GS Gen.1 but of course it really doesn't work that way. I can see a Matador/Cashmere 430 in my garage in a couple of months.
Last edited by JHStrange; 02-16-05 at 08:57 AM.
02-16-05, 09:02 AM
#22
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by Rockville
This morning while shaving I was thinking about this experiment that Porsche tried once. It was called Sportamatic. It had a very conventional looking shift lever but no clutch. When you barely touched the lever it went into neutral and if you moved it to another gear it would shift just like a stick. Boy was that tricky to get used to. You just couldn't hold onto the stickshift or it might drop out of gear. It was much harder than a manual and it didn't last long. Things have come a long way since then.....
Back to the Lexus. The new GS 6 speed automatic is a newer version of the LS430 ('04-'05) and is operated the same way. There is a horizontal change of position of the shift lever when going from Drive over to Sequential. When you are in Drive there is no reference available about what gear you are in. The most likely scenario for use of the Sequential +/- slot is down shifting for a turn or for passing. The advantage of dropping down a gear is that it can give you more control and at the apex of the turn more horsepower/torque available for exiting the turn. If you instead left it in automatic it might feel sluggish coming out of the turn. So now when you leave Drive and go into the "S" slot it will display 5 in the little window. The alternative which was in the GS400 early production was to move over to overdrive (5th on that tranny was overdrive) and fire the steering wheel buttons until you got to the gear desired. It didn't go over to second from drive. If the new six speed worked the same way then when you pulled into "S" it would be in 6th. Since it is likely that you are downshifting Lexus has made the first shift to 5th for you. ( at highway speed) If the downshift was not what you were asking for than you need to bump the lever forward and it will spring back to the middle and you're back in 6th. Letting the Rev's be your guide you can drop it down to 4th or 3rd if necessary. It won't let you over Rev the engine but some effort should be made to select an appropriate gear. The only time you might need to shift all the way down to first is entering short radius turns after a straight away and you are braking and downshifting to a much slower speed. For a person like you just leave it the the Sequential slot 100% of the time there is no downside to this and you can drive it like a manual all you want. You will probably use more gas this way if you are shifting this way. When you're wife and family are on board just keep it smooth and don't shift as much. Wink..Wink
Back to the Lexus. The new GS 6 speed automatic is a newer version of the LS430 ('04-'05) and is operated the same way. There is a horizontal change of position of the shift lever when going from Drive over to Sequential. When you are in Drive there is no reference available about what gear you are in. The most likely scenario for use of the Sequential +/- slot is down shifting for a turn or for passing. The advantage of dropping down a gear is that it can give you more control and at the apex of the turn more horsepower/torque available for exiting the turn. If you instead left it in automatic it might feel sluggish coming out of the turn. So now when you leave Drive and go into the "S" slot it will display 5 in the little window. The alternative which was in the GS400 early production was to move over to overdrive (5th on that tranny was overdrive) and fire the steering wheel buttons until you got to the gear desired. It didn't go over to second from drive. If the new six speed worked the same way then when you pulled into "S" it would be in 6th. Since it is likely that you are downshifting Lexus has made the first shift to 5th for you. ( at highway speed) If the downshift was not what you were asking for than you need to bump the lever forward and it will spring back to the middle and you're back in 6th. Letting the Rev's be your guide you can drop it down to 4th or 3rd if necessary. It won't let you over Rev the engine but some effort should be made to select an appropriate gear. The only time you might need to shift all the way down to first is entering short radius turns after a straight away and you are braking and downshifting to a much slower speed. For a person like you just leave it the the Sequential slot 100% of the time there is no downside to this and you can drive it like a manual all you want. You will probably use more gas this way if you are shifting this way. When you're wife and family are on board just keep it smooth and don't shift as much. Wink..Wink
02-16-05, 09:03 AM
#23
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manual mode?
Originally Posted by flipside909
Perhaps the new GS is not for you if you think it's "flawed". Then again it's not for everyone...vice versa w/the new M. The choice is definitely yours...more power to you on your future choice, no one is holding you down to buy a new GS but it's certainly not flawed. And no we're not speaking from bias either.
02-16-05, 09:13 AM
#24
Pole Position
Whole purpose of sequnetial shifting mode on automatics is downshifting.
There is no reason to upshift cause the car does it for you. You give it a big kick down and it goes to the redline, you give it a little punch and it goes up to 4rpm.
That's why the car says 5th gear when you put in M mode so you could downshift. The car itself doesn't start in 5th gear, that would be impossible. It starts from 1st. But it gives you an option to downshift below 5th gear. You will also notice once you downshift, depending on the pressure on the gas pedal car will upshift by itself at some RPM point. It's not like manual tranny where you can hold the car in particular gear at high RPMs as much as you want.
Lexus is not the only one when it comes to set up like that. MB does the same thing with 7G auto. The car starts in 5th also, you can upshift to 6th and tells the car to go up tp 6th gear, if not the car will stop shifting on 5th unless you push it. Even though it's 7 speed you can only upshift to 6th gear. I think 7th is the overdrive.
There is no reason to upshift cause the car does it for you. You give it a big kick down and it goes to the redline, you give it a little punch and it goes up to 4rpm.
That's why the car says 5th gear when you put in M mode so you could downshift. The car itself doesn't start in 5th gear, that would be impossible. It starts from 1st. But it gives you an option to downshift below 5th gear. You will also notice once you downshift, depending on the pressure on the gas pedal car will upshift by itself at some RPM point. It's not like manual tranny where you can hold the car in particular gear at high RPMs as much as you want.
Lexus is not the only one when it comes to set up like that. MB does the same thing with 7G auto. The car starts in 5th also, you can upshift to 6th and tells the car to go up tp 6th gear, if not the car will stop shifting on 5th unless you push it. Even though it's 7 speed you can only upshift to 6th gear. I think 7th is the overdrive.
02-16-05, 09:14 AM
#25
Lexus Connoisseur
Manual Mode is simple to use. You simply slide the shifter into M-Mode towards the left either at a stop or while you're driving and you pull back the lever to downshift ( - ) or push forward to upshift (+). You can actually start in 1st gear like the LS430. There's no need to let go of the gas when upshifting or downshifting. Simply mash on the accelerator and upshift/downshift away.
We covered E-Shift/M-Mode in this thread real briefly:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...hlight=e-shift
We covered E-Shift/M-Mode in this thread real briefly:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...hlight=e-shift
02-16-05, 09:30 AM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Holding a gear up to the Rev limiter
Originally Posted by Vladi
Whole purpose of sequnetial shifting mode on automatics is downshifting.
There is no reason to upshift cause the car does it for you. You give it a big kick down and it goes to the redline, you give it a little punch and it goes up to 4rpm.
That's why the car says 5th gear when you put in M mode so you could downshift. The car itself doesn't start in 5th gear, that would be impossible. It starts from 1st. But it gives you an option to downshift below 5th gear. You will also notice once you downshift, depending on the pressure on the gas pedal car will upshift by itself at some RPM point. It's not like manual tranny where you can hold the car in particular gear at high RPMs as much as you want.
Lexus is not the only one when it comes to set up like that. MB does the same thing with 7G auto. The car starts in 5th also, you can upshift to 6th and tells the car to go up tp 6th gear, if not the car will stop shifting on 5th unless you push it. Even though it's 7 speed you can only upshift to 6th gear. I think 7th is the overdrive.
There is no reason to upshift cause the car does it for you. You give it a big kick down and it goes to the redline, you give it a little punch and it goes up to 4rpm.
That's why the car says 5th gear when you put in M mode so you could downshift. The car itself doesn't start in 5th gear, that would be impossible. It starts from 1st. But it gives you an option to downshift below 5th gear. You will also notice once you downshift, depending on the pressure on the gas pedal car will upshift by itself at some RPM point. It's not like manual tranny where you can hold the car in particular gear at high RPMs as much as you want.
Lexus is not the only one when it comes to set up like that. MB does the same thing with 7G auto. The car starts in 5th also, you can upshift to 6th and tells the car to go up tp 6th gear, if not the car will stop shifting on 5th unless you push it. Even though it's 7 speed you can only upshift to 6th gear. I think 7th is the overdrive.
02-16-05, 10:11 AM
#27
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BMW Manual/Auto Transmission?
Anybody know how the BMW auto trans. works in manual mode. I am guessing it is more like the Infiniti than the Lexus/MB. It does not surprise me that the Lexus manual mode works similar to MB. the Lexus "driving experience" has been much more closely tied to MB; the same can be said about the Infiniti being closely tied to BMW.
It seems that from what I am learning about the Lexus manual mode, it is not as manual as what I have seen on Infinitis. It is more of a semi-automatic mode. That is fine for some. As we all know, many would say we are nuts for even thinking we are buying a performance/sports sedan without a true manual transmission. Well, I like to upshift, like to downshift, and like to drink my coffee if I choose.
It seems that from what I am learning about the Lexus manual mode, it is not as manual as what I have seen on Infinitis. It is more of a semi-automatic mode. That is fine for some. As we all know, many would say we are nuts for even thinking we are buying a performance/sports sedan without a true manual transmission. Well, I like to upshift, like to downshift, and like to drink my coffee if I choose.
02-16-05, 12:10 PM
#28
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by marcpitch
Well, I like to upshift, like to downshift, and like to drink my coffee if I choose.
02-16-05, 01:57 PM
#29
Lexus Test Driver
Shifting drinking hot beverages etc.
We have a think tank here in Rockville called Westat that I do some consulting for on occasion.
They have contracts with NHSTA and they are always curious about how well drivers juggle all of their tasks and responsibilities. I made a big point of telling them that every year our cars are getting smarter and more sophisicated but the drivers haven't really changed much. Since Marc is very coordinated from years of practice he can run most of the audio from his left hand which is steering the car while his right hand is alternating between gearshifts and sips of starbucks. A call comes in on the bluetooth phone which he answers with his right hand after putting down his coffee. He gets engrossed in the conversation and misses his exit on the freeway! Let's be honest, does this sound familiar to anyone? Luckily smoking has been deleted from most of the driver's ( I don't know how Phillip Morris stays in business) habits to the point that we don't offer ash trays in our top selling RX330. When I met my wife she had a habit of adjusting the mirror so she could apply her makeup while driving to work. I harangued her until she finally quit.
Operating the Nav system has given us another thing to look at while we're driving and the climate control screen, XM Satellite radio text, and our daily appt. calendar. The display on the GS in the instruments middle necelle has LARGE letters so you won't need your reading glasses. My favorite thing to do is to get a drippy Whopper and fries and try to drive without making a mess of myself. These tasks become exponentially easier once you've had a couple of Heinekens.
They have contracts with NHSTA and they are always curious about how well drivers juggle all of their tasks and responsibilities. I made a big point of telling them that every year our cars are getting smarter and more sophisicated but the drivers haven't really changed much. Since Marc is very coordinated from years of practice he can run most of the audio from his left hand which is steering the car while his right hand is alternating between gearshifts and sips of starbucks. A call comes in on the bluetooth phone which he answers with his right hand after putting down his coffee. He gets engrossed in the conversation and misses his exit on the freeway! Let's be honest, does this sound familiar to anyone? Luckily smoking has been deleted from most of the driver's ( I don't know how Phillip Morris stays in business) habits to the point that we don't offer ash trays in our top selling RX330. When I met my wife she had a habit of adjusting the mirror so she could apply her makeup while driving to work. I harangued her until she finally quit.
Operating the Nav system has given us another thing to look at while we're driving and the climate control screen, XM Satellite radio text, and our daily appt. calendar. The display on the GS in the instruments middle necelle has LARGE letters so you won't need your reading glasses. My favorite thing to do is to get a drippy Whopper and fries and try to drive without making a mess of myself. These tasks become exponentially easier once you've had a couple of Heinekens.
02-16-05, 03:53 PM
#30
well, i guess it was an easy mistake, but did you really think the car was starting in 5th gear?
And I thought that ONLY reason for manumatics is the upshifting, or rather lack of it. The most annoying thing that could happen in an Auto car is an upshift when you dont need it. Which is why manual mode is good, because you can keep the car in lower gear when you need it (driving fast through fast curvy roads).
Which is what exactly you do here, you get the best of all worlds, it is still semi-manual, but it will downshift for you (do you really want to go to 10mph in 5th gear?) but it wont upshift, it will just bounce of the rev limit...
And I really, really, dont know why would you drive it in manual mode all the time, all my cars are manuals but I dont particulary care about manual unless I am feeling like i should go through some twisties. And if you need fast acceleration, nothing is faster than simply smashing the gas pedal... Not only the electronics does it faster and perfectly for you, extra time you need to send your hand to the gear lever and change gears is delay as well.
P.S. I am sure Rockville can educate you on how these new Toyota/Lexus transmissions have these beautiful planetary gears that dont need to wind down to catch up to the speed, resulting in perfect syncing and actually better performance than manuals (both acceleration and gas mileage). Right Rockville?
And I thought that ONLY reason for manumatics is the upshifting, or rather lack of it. The most annoying thing that could happen in an Auto car is an upshift when you dont need it. Which is why manual mode is good, because you can keep the car in lower gear when you need it (driving fast through fast curvy roads).
Which is what exactly you do here, you get the best of all worlds, it is still semi-manual, but it will downshift for you (do you really want to go to 10mph in 5th gear?) but it wont upshift, it will just bounce of the rev limit...
And I really, really, dont know why would you drive it in manual mode all the time, all my cars are manuals but I dont particulary care about manual unless I am feeling like i should go through some twisties. And if you need fast acceleration, nothing is faster than simply smashing the gas pedal... Not only the electronics does it faster and perfectly for you, extra time you need to send your hand to the gear lever and change gears is delay as well.
P.S. I am sure Rockville can educate you on how these new Toyota/Lexus transmissions have these beautiful planetary gears that dont need to wind down to catch up to the speed, resulting in perfect syncing and actually better performance than manuals (both acceleration and gas mileage). Right Rockville?