wogey

If you and Flipside909 want to pay full MSRP for the car, no one is stopping you guys. Go right ahead, more power to you guys. Obviously you guys have a lot of money, or care less about it than most people. And I can read that you are very excited about a great looking new car with a nice interior (with a few design flaws). Don't even get me started about the overhead LED lights. They might as well provide a Lexus GS flashlight along with the car because you will need one to look for things in the car at night. As many other people have also stated in this forum, the HP and torque rating are below average for sport sedans at the price range.

My observations are that there are plenty of lookers and interest for the new GS, but fewer actual buyers at MSRP (except for a few rich guys/gals like you two). My personal opinion for people out there interested in the car is to hold out as long as possible. Don't forget the bug fix first year and the very likelihood of a 2007 GS350 waiting. The wait will sure pay off with savings in your pocket or even a better car. If one got the cash , one can buy any car anytime anywhere. There are no real shortage of GS300s. It is a short term artifically controlled process. It is a commodity, volume driven, and a bring back the car to the dealer repair service business like the RX and others.

There is a difference between not caring to negotiate and not knowing how. If one doesn't think one can get at least $100+ more off on buying ANY car, well I guess one better take car buying or car selling 101 and learn the basics about the business.

Happy cruising with your new GS.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

the way i see the whole new gs debut. it's a nice car, but to be honest i expect to see some problems during the first yr. plus next yr the car is going to get a bigger nicer engine. so if i were to get the new gs, i really wouldn't get it this yr, no matter the gs3 or gs4. i will wait one yr

wogey

Well, I guess you got me started. Lexus should provide a GS flashlight along with the car as you will need it to look for things in the darkness of the car at night. LEDs are more reliable, use less energy, and have a cool factor when they are properly designed and placed. The GS LED overhead lights are surely NOT a LED implementation that was well thought through. BTW, HIDs are better than halogens and why didn't Lexus put them on the 2005 GX470??? They are playing marketing games with all their cars. I bet they will have them on the 2006s as a big whoopee enhancement. Marketing games run by stooges, how sad.

I bet one of the most used button on the new GS will be the driver side PUSH button for the button(s) fold down. It will be painful having to open and close a miniature glove compartment for buttons That is call over-engineering and also a poor way to cut cost. I rather have logically placed buttons/switches. To control the mirrors, I want a switch close by the mirrors, to reset the ODO/Trip, I want to push a button on the Odometer. There are places for high tech and places for low tech. Lexus should have learned better from BMW's mistake. The iDrive is a disaster. Centralizing buttons and functions makes it very very difficult to differentiate the buttons and functions while driving !!!

Car manufacturers should be held accountable for designing confusing complicated functions forcing people to take their eyes off the road while driving.

I am not arguing on the past success of the GS2. That was a nice run and it was a very very nice car priced right with MSRP and with discounts !!! The GS3 are overpriced to start. It is a whole new ball game with more, stronger players.

flipside909

First of all, how did you know I was even in the market to buy a new GS right now? I didn't even know I was until you pointed this out. It's pretty clear that your only findings are from what you've read selectively. Don't stereotype or generalize anyone here. Obviously you know nothing about Lexus marketing strategies, consumer demand, logic or common sense for that matter. Of course we're excited over a new car. Afterall it's been 8 years since the GS was redsesigned. You may feel that there are design flaws, there are a few things that can be improved on but why the negative demeanor? The vehicle just came out and you feel it's the end of the world because Lexus didn't design the GS to your likings. The LED lights do work. Perhaps you don't see the value in using them because you probably think they're too gimmicky. Well then perhaps the new GS isn't for you? Yes many have stated in this forum that the HP and Torque ratings are low compared to it's competitors. Most buyers can care less how much power the vehicle has. It's only printed numbers. If the consumers like what they see and feel, they will buy it regardless. Not everyone has HP numbers in mind, which is the reason why the GS3 sells more than the GS4. But if you think about it, the people who post here are not even 1% of the buying market. ClubLexus community only represents a fraction of total sales period. I can bet you 90% of the target market for this vehicle has no idea or a clue about ClubLexus. So how can you generalize your findings from what people post here? It's obvious you have the slightest idea since you're already in your mindset that the new GS is flawed. Plus you don't have any real credibility with your statements. It's only inflated opinion that has no credibility. Do some research before you generalize people here. If you think the GS is flawed, leave it at that. No point or sense in you trying to argue your opinions. Why bother?

There are people in the market that will buy this car regardless. Sure many of us know when to buy this vehicle, but it's simple supply and demand. Lexus dealers will not budge off of MSRP for the first 6 months to a year. The dealers are smart to keep it at MSRP because it only brings in profit. But if every dealership were to slash prices to suit your frugal ideals, the dealers will lose, the salespeople will not make money, and as a whole, no one will be profitable. People want the vehicle now and they will pay that price. You cannot dictate the consumer demand for the new GS. Despite what you say, people will pay that MSRP or more, especially if they want the vehicle now. Most smart consumers will wait after the demand has gone down but granted we are in a buyer's market, people will pay that premium if they want it badly. Why? Because Americans are greedy.

Obviously you have the slightest idea of the basics of business. Businesses are out to make a profit and gain. Consumers will buy what they like and what is of value to them. Consumers dictate the market. If the demand of the new 06 GS was not that great, you will see every Lexus dealer sitting on all the inventory they've recieved pre February 15. But because their is a demand, people will keep buying. How much do you want to bet that every dealer that has taken delivery of 06 GS inventory has sold more than half of their allocation or more for this month? The car is new, and the general consumable market will want the latest and newest toy they can get their hands on. It's reality, not fiction. Businesses aren't there to stay open so penny pinchers like you can take advantage of them. If Lexus Dealers sold every car at or under invoice price, the consumer is ultimately the loser in the long run. It would be silly for a dealership to not keep the prices at MSRP. They will ride the wave of profit as long as they can. Then when there is a change in demand, they will adjust prices accordingly. Not because you feel you're entitled to Invoice Pricing you see on Edmunds.com or etc. If you don't like the car, don't buy it. If you can't afford it, don't waste your time. If you have nothing but negative things to say, take it elsewhere. Are you jealous that people are buying the GS at MSRP? It's not your money, it's theirs. Let people buy the cars because in the end, it doesn't matter what you think, it matters to the buyer how much they value their purchase regardless of how many pennies you saved off of MSRP. Why bother wasting your time trying to pick a fight? In the end it makes you look like the cheapskate who cried wolf. Perhaps you should take your own advice of car buying and selling 101 because you have the slightest idea.

flipside909

Why do you constantly bring up the LED spot light feature? It actually works. Have you actually taken a test drive of the new GS at night and tried this out? Probably not. You probably were one of the few to see the light in broad daylight and complain how weak it is. The GS LED lights were thought out correctly. Once again you're probably just observing what you see in photos or conditions that negate the use of maplights. HID's are better than halogens in some sense. Lexus did not put HID's in the 05 GX470 because it already uses projector beam headlights that illuminate just fine. HID's are more expensive than halogen units since HID systems require an automatic leveler and a different housing for this. Sure it might as well be a marketing idea. Perhaps you will be the one to complain thtat the GX470 has a 2k premium for standard HIDs, then what? What's with the name calling? You may think they're a bunch of stooges, but most of us here think you're the stooge. Lexus Marketing is doing a fine job regardless of your comments simply because the vehicle sells. Like what was mentioned previously, Wogey does not dictate the market. General consumers do and the sales prove it.

Perhaps you're nitpicking a car you don't have intention on buying? Call it what you want, people will buy it regardless. It may well be a design factor that doesn't suit your needs or tastes, but it does appeal to the consumers who are actually going to buy this car. If you want such a simple car, why don't you buy a Chevy Aveo or Scion xA? Then you'll have an uncluttered dash that you won't complain about, or will you? Lexus/Toyota ergronomics are the most intiutive designs in the industry. Lexus never will follow the mistake that BMW did with iDrive. But you probably don't know or care much about Toyota & Lexus history and design philosophy because you will find another way to make an argument about nothing.

You make a good point. That's why there are many other car manufacturers out there. It's a buyers market. There are plenty of choices out there that suits their own needs. It's up to the driver to keep their eyes on the road and study their own vehicle and how it operates. You remind me of Ralph Nader for some reason.

First of all, when the Gen2 GS came out in late 1997 as a 1998 model, I can bet you no dealership sold it less than MSRP for the first 6 months of sale. It's a given and proven fact. Everyone here will tell you this. If you think these cars are so overpriced, why are you even looking to buy a luxury vehicle? It's the laws of inflation that drive prices up. A gallon of gas wasn't the same 10 years ago. What makes you think a new GS with way more advanced options and will be priced what it was 10 years ago? Obviously you're fighting an uphill battle with yourself. You need to realize and look at all perspectives. Seems like your narrow mindset is blinding the big picture everyone else sees but you. Wogey does not dictate the market. Just remember that.

wogey

Hey buddy,

You sound like you have a lot of pinned up energy within yourself. I suggest you go out and take a new GS out for spin so you can let loose on some of that negative force, or better yet take your girlfriend, wife, boyfriend and/or whatever out for a nice evening and get some other means of energy relieve.

You maybe right, only a small percentage of people on this forum may actually buy the car. But we are all interested in cars. We write our opinions, and people have the rights to read them. Internet and forums like these are powerful informational tools. More and more potential buyers or GS interested people will do word searches on Google or Yahoo, and guess what, they will find wonderful sites like this one. Search for Lexus GS350 and guess what, you may find this topic. Full of real information and people's opinions. Both positives and negatives. There is more real information here than you will find going to a dealer. Sounds like you are the one that is one sided (pro Lexus). What I write are my opinions, real findings, and they will become facts to those people that think like I do. Some may side with you, guess what, who cares, it is nothing personal. It is for people who read it to decide for themselves. But at lease there are many of us who take the time to look, drive, research, and write for the purpose of sharing and learning. If people want read all positive stuff, they can walk into a Lexus dealer or read it on the Lexus site. Who needs more of that kind of marketing ****


Yes, I know you are that Lexus marketing guru.

I am excited over the car too, I also waited a long time to see and to purchase a GSversion3, but I don't have to go along with the overpricing, lack of power upgrades, and flawed interior designs for the sake of - Oh, it is a new GS ! When something is poor it is poor. When kids can't read, write or do math, they shouldn't get passing grades. Should we change the grading system for them to accommodate them so we can make them feel better ? (Don't get me started with our public educational system) I write my opinion creatively. If people read it, they can decide for themselves. If I write the overhead LED lights are bad, people can look and decide for themselves. For those people who agree with me, maybe we can all ask Lexus to add an option for a GS flashlight. I'll take my flashlight with a regular bulb, not LED. Hey Lexus and all car manufacturers spend millions of dollars in engineering and testing, and they want to charge a lot money for their cars, don't you think they should get it perfect or subject to criticism? We are not all Lexus "YES" men.

No, it isn't the end of the world, but I enjoy writing about it and maybe if Lexus read it they may fix it or make it better. Better yet, they should hire more critics like me to help QA their cars. "YES men" don't make good engineers or QA people.

Nobody dictates anything on the Internet. We provide information for people to make their own decisions. There will be plenty of readers looking at GS forums before they buy. We are all here to share, educate, learn, and to pursue Lexus to build and market and better products.

Rockville

I haven't leased a Lexus for a 2yr term in the last 8 years and I doubt many have been even though it is available. Depending on the mileage you drive a 3yr to 4yr lease will match your profile.

LED's are the future. They don't burn out like incandescents and use less energy. The lights are meant to be unobtrusive. Use the LED maplights if you need light. There are LED's in the footwells front and back, there is one that illuminates the steering wheel when you get in. There are puddle lamps under the outside mirrors that come on when you approach the car and a nice rear tag light. The Red LED's make great tail lights and brake lights as they turn on ten times faster than conventional bulbs. Did I mention that they don't burn out? I have a flashlight in my old Landrover and it's an LED type and it even works under water! It doesn't cost much and it's lighter than the maglights that I used to adore.

The rear seat is fixed on our sedans. I could see someone wanting to have a fold forward seat to increase the cargo capacity but it would make the car noiser and have less rigidity in the body if it were made like a liftback. The IS sportwagon or the RX400h would better suit you if that's what you are looking for.

Back to the topic of GX470's not having HID's. It isn't due to the cost but it has to do with the height. It would easily blind drivers on the other side of a two lane. Get youself some aftermarket flamethrowers and mod your GX to your liking if that's what makes you happy. The GX just happens to outsell both the BMW X5 and the Mercedes ML series.

Lexus isn't some out of touch corporation and it's because they listen to people like you they have the highest satisfaction of their owners. They love feedback. Whenever a new design arrives I nod my head because I see changes my own customers have asked for.

BTW, Flip doesn't work for Lexus but I do. I'm at the franchise level and I learn from this forum just like everyone else. I feel compelled to post when I see erroneous information especially about the mindset of Lexus. Their commitment to innovation and continuous improvement is unparalleled. They keep coming up with Hybrid SULEV's, VDIM and direct injection with intake and exhaust valve timing. Sakichi Toyoda's maxim was that everyone should attempt at least one great project during their lifetime. I often wonder what mine should/would be? What is yours?

Some folks want to take advantage of the newest technologies and can afford to pay the asking price. Some will only buy if it is to their advantage. These folks will often buy last year's model. We don't have a lot of leftovers from year to year. I agree with the strategy to wait for any new model glitches to be sorted out. Each day as I become more and more familiar with the new GS I become more enamored. I will come out of lease next summer and the GS or new IS350 are both tugging for attention. Even the RX350 sounds intriguing. I'm not immune to buyer's fever either......

Sam Khoury

I'm thinking the exact same thing. My problem is that the lease on my current GS is up on Dec 1st so I'll have a big decision to make. Do I buy my car at the end of the lease and hold onto it until the 2007 GS comes out or do I just get a 2006 and hope that there are no problems and that there's some kind of special leasing terms on the GS going on during the annual "December to remember sales event".

flipside909

Let's first start off with the name calling. You have no idea what my profession is or what my background is. Poor car salesman? Not quite, because i'm not even in the sales industry. I can tell you my degree is in Business Economics with emphasis on marketing and research. You did hit the second part on the dot. Yes I do have a personal stake with Lexus. It's called a very proud, satisfied and passionate Toyota/Lexus Owner & Enthusiast. Unfortunately I have no financial ties to the company other than being a regular consumer just like you. I have a suggestion for you, if you don't like what you read here, don't bash and comment like a troll. After all, you are in a Lexus based discussion forum. Constructive criticism is fine, but name calling and poor diction doesn't belong here. Facts are facts, your opinions happen to be just what it is, opinion. Perhaps you should take your own suggestion because quite frankly, you were the one with the negative connotations from the few posts you have here.

It's not maybe I am right, I AM right. We are all definitely interested in cars, but the Club Lexus community is only a fraction of the prospective Lexus buyer out there. Sure our community is a tool for owners and enthusiasts alike, but it's no where near you're imagining. Potential buyers do use the internet as a tool, but I can assure you majority of them would rather go to the dealership to try it out for themselves instead of guess, complain, rant or rave about the new GS. If the buyer wants to buy it, they will do so. You will definitely find alot of useful info here in our forums, but it's not the official definitive source to buy a car. Your findings may become facts, but at this point, i've probably been in the vehicle as much as you have or possibly more. I've done my research on the car and I know what I like and dislike about the car. But when you throw out your opinions, you depict the situation as if the sky is falling and Lexus has a bunch of stooges running the company. Quite honestly, if they were a bunch of stooges, would Lexus be where they are at now? Exactly...NOPE! Perhaps your opinions are your opinions, but they certainly sound like troll material more than anything else. There's a place for people to complain...it's called the Complaint Station, ever heard of it? Obviously you have no business sense or marketing ideals in your vocabulary...as you refer to this whole thing as "Marketing ****
" You actually think people here are going to take you seriously with statements like that? I can be the first to tell you that the door is wide open for you.

I'm happy that you recognize that. If you were excited about this company as I am, you would share the exact same enthusiasm level if not more.

If you're so excited about the car, why don't you wait patiently for the prices to drop. If you're such an educated buyer, why are you calling out wolf so soon? The car is days away from it's national release to the consumers. You haven't even given it a chance to be exposed in the market. Only a fool would sell a car below MSRP on a brand new car. Perhaps if you had a vehicle like the Pontiac Aztec, then you will see discounts. But we're talking Lexus here. Acura, BMW and the likes do the exact same thing. Shall we boycott all the manufacturers to make you happy? Again, if you're so excited about the car, why are you nitpicking it? Perhaps you've confused yourself, you were once excited, but now this particular car doesn't necessarily suit your preferences. There are other brands out there, no one is putting a gun to your head to buy the car now while prices are at MSRP. You make it sound as if everyone here doesn't know how to buy a car by the book of Wogey. You're trying to school us about how to buy a car, but then again you're only new to our community? Since when did you become the definitive educator in car buying and car sales? Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but yours are way out of line and far fetched. How about I buy you a 2 million candlepower flashlight to satisfy your needs. Will that keep you content?

Patience is a virtue, Lexus does listen, but it's not going to happen overnight.

If that's the case, whats with the negativity. You can definitly share your constructive criticism w/o all the uncessessary name calling and bashing. Slow your roll. If you feel this way about many things in life....

So where were we? GS350. Should you wait or should you go get the GS300. It all depends on what you want. Do you want to wait 3 years for the GS350 to come out or do you want the car now to enjoy? Regardless of your purchase, it will still be justified regardless of choice if you feel you have an understanding of the value of the whole GS package.

flipside909

Well said my friend.

ny888

I read these forums every day - mostly a lurker but I read enough to know who the regulars are here at CL.

This thread really compels me to respond.

wogey - for the most part I agree with alot of what you say but it is when you make generalizations and state opinions as fact that make it appear that you are here to try to pick a fight.

"There is a difference between not caring to negotiate and not knowing how. If one doesn't think one can get at least $100+ more off on buying ANY car, well I guess one better take car buying or car selling 101 and learn the basics about the business."

How do you know people who are pay msrp did not try to get a better price ? A year ago I was looking to buy a Prius. It took me awhile just to find dealers who would even take my order at msrp. Does that mean I didn't care or is incapable of negotiating ? I work in sales, I know all about the art of negotiating but market dynamics typically drive buyer and seller behavior.

"Hey Lexus and all car manufacturers spend millions of dollars in engineering and testing, and they want to charge a lot money for their cars, don't you think they should get it perfect or subject to criticism?"

Absolutely I agree that they should be subject to criticism but get it PERFECT ? Whose definition of perfect are you using here ? If it is your opinion that the overhead LED lights suck, I can accept that but to say it is less than perfect because you don't care for it, then you're stating it as fact and not opinion.

"We are not all Lexus "YES" men" + "You sound like you have a lot of pinned up energy within yourself. I suggest you go out and take a new GS out for spin so you can let loose on some of that negative force, or better yet take your girlfriend, wife, boyfriend and/or whatever out for a nice evening and get some other means of energy relieve."

That's getting personal - let's have a constructive dsicussion about the merits and shortcomings of this car instead.

As for HP/Torque, look at what Henry said - "the way i see the whole new gs debut. it's a nice car, but to be honest i expect to see some problems during the first yr. plus next yr the car is going to get a bigger nicer engine. so if i were to get the new gs, i really wouldn't get it this yr, no matter the gs3 or gs4. i will wait one yr"

It's said purely as his opinion.

So keep on posting and I'll keep on reading, sometimes it's not what's said but the way it is said so try to keep an open mind that everyone has differing opinions.

This is the best and worst times to buy a car in this class - so many choices available today and yet even better things to come in the next 2 years.

Decisions, decisions, decisions !

Maybe I'll wait for to see the IS350 first ?

Flip - you told me to go NOW to test drive the new GS in another thread to get my itch scratched. I'm actually afraid to do it because I may just buy it on the spot ! Somebody here in NorCal has to bite the bullet so Henry can see one in the wild !

flipside909

Haha it's is up to you. That new IS350 is around the corner. There are lots in store for Lexus in the near future, and they weren't kidding about it either.

I bet if you buy one, he'll be inclined to get one too!

yaro1

I've seen lots of trolls around here . Whats the deal with people bashing this car? I think it is because they are just jealous of people who have it . Congrats to anybody with the car for being smart. And to the people who just like to tear the car apart so that they feel good about not being able to afford one, I say go somewhere else and waste your energy elsewhere! (people who want to argue this do everyone a favor: DON'T!) I think flip has a lot of good points here talking about the car.

Back to the thread topic......
I am going to the dealer tomorrow for a final test drive and I will sign the papers if the price sounds reasonable. My biggest problem is getting the combination I want; l I think it is rare or something: (Blue Onyx/Cashmere/Nav/Levi/PCS/everything else/AWD)

Anyway, I love this car!

Rockville

If your lease is with Lexus Financial Services you can extend inorder to wait for any new model or special order etc. You can extend as a courtesy for up to 6 months on a month to month basis. We call this "overtime". If you still haven't received your car by then you may apply for more extension but this takes an act of Congress....Best of Luck,

Rock

ben(miami)

If you think the "miniature glove compartment" is a cost-cutting measure, then

Of course, everybody is entitled to their own opinions....