Back to back test drives of GS430 vs M45
#31
Lexus Test Driver
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Originally Posted by DrexLex
But let's distinuish--there's a difference between using an MP3 player or an iPod, and burning MP3s onto CD-R. Not all MP3 fans bother with burning discs--it takes extra effort, steps. If you don't mind my asking, how does your wife actually deal with MP3 files--download/RIP directly to player, download/RIP to PC HDD then to player, download/RIP then burn CD, some other handling?
Would it be better to skip over the CD-R storage device and go to an in-car HDD? It is my understanding that while DVD maps are delievered on DVD discs, they are sometimes partially downloaded to a local hard drive for faster access while driving. Since hard drives are rather larger than needed for this purpose, the excess capacity can easily be used for entertainment, such as music files or to pre-record radio programs, like a sort of TiVo operation. Does that sound attractive as an alternative to MP3 CD playback?
Would it be better to skip over the CD-R storage device and go to an in-car HDD? It is my understanding that while DVD maps are delievered on DVD discs, they are sometimes partially downloaded to a local hard drive for faster access while driving. Since hard drives are rather larger than needed for this purpose, the excess capacity can easily be used for entertainment, such as music files or to pre-record radio programs, like a sort of TiVo operation. Does that sound attractive as an alternative to MP3 CD playback?
#32
Lead Lap
I find it hard to believe that features from the top of the line ls are trickling downwards and features people dont even think of until they dont have them any more [ like a woman I heard saying she misses her door closers and regrets trading down to an es ] yet something easily added like mp3 isnt. just think of all the features from the ls that are now gs options yet nowhere is mp3? I think customers by and large just do not care. further I think the typical poster in the gs and lower model forums are considerably younger and in fact dont even buy most of the cars here new. so I dont think a representative slice of the market is here. thats why I say [I think} most lexus buyers dont care about mp3.
#33
Originally Posted by Rockville
Since you have the advantage of driving both the M and the Acura RL (which is fast), which one is sportier to you? How do you compare the dash layout and controls? Which one is the better car in your opinion? Next, fast forward to an equivalent displacement Lexus that makes it a fair comparison and then you will see the real battle hasn't begun yet. E350, BMW 5, A6 vs. M35, RL, and the GS350 will all vie for your sport lux bucks. That's a shootout if there ever was one....
As for dash layout and controls on the RL and M, I find the RL to be very intuitive and attractive. I didn't spend enough time in the M to become comfortable with the setup, but I found it to be attractive as well.
Re: displacement, I've never doubted that Lexus can equal or better the competition in displacement and 0-60 times. My disappointment has always been in the way the cars handle. My SC430 was probably my most favorite car, and it could really move, but I never felt the suspension could keep up with that wonderful V-8 engine. It almost felt unsafe to take corners with any speed, and even though I'm long past my Mario Andretti days, if I took a corner with a passenger in the car they were thrown against the door because of the body roll. My GS300 was much better, but only after L-tuned shocks, suspension, and steering ECU. I don't feel I should have to pay the price of a new Lexus, then pay additional $$$ to make it fun to drive.
I don't personally think it's all about speed. Even in everyday traffic, I want the ability to manuever a vehicle around obstacles (like bad drivers!). There's a safety benefit in good handling. There's also the added benefit of enjoying a curve or two when the time is right.
#34
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Originally Posted by Rockville
What I've always admired about Lexus is their balance. They are never extreme. If the IS350's engine is dropped into the GS at some point then the BMW will logically be at a disadvantage and need some boring out. BMW mystique lives on and they sell that as much as Horsepower.
Mercedes has their prestige though it has been tarnished since the merger. Acura aspires to be the BMW of Japan and so does Infiniti. Lexus isn't looking for a niche to define itself. It wants to give everyone a reason to own a Lexus. Here on Club Lexus we have an enthusiast take on everything just like the Car Magazines. A lot of the Car and Driver's best and Motor Trend car of the year etc. are flashes in the pan. There is something about a Lexus that makes people want them and it might not be just Horsepower. They last and they age gracefully and you can pass them down to the kids if you need an excuse to buy a new one and they're safe. They care about our planet and have never had a gas guzzler tax. They think ahead and decide that Hybrids are a win win for all concerned. Before the first one has even been test driven Lexus has 12,000 deposits. They don't just add horsepower they use less gas. The other makes are left standing there holding their trophies of a bygone era...........
Mercedes has their prestige though it has been tarnished since the merger. Acura aspires to be the BMW of Japan and so does Infiniti. Lexus isn't looking for a niche to define itself. It wants to give everyone a reason to own a Lexus. Here on Club Lexus we have an enthusiast take on everything just like the Car Magazines. A lot of the Car and Driver's best and Motor Trend car of the year etc. are flashes in the pan. There is something about a Lexus that makes people want them and it might not be just Horsepower. They last and they age gracefully and you can pass them down to the kids if you need an excuse to buy a new one and they're safe. They care about our planet and have never had a gas guzzler tax. They think ahead and decide that Hybrids are a win win for all concerned. Before the first one has even been test driven Lexus has 12,000 deposits. They don't just add horsepower they use less gas. The other makes are left standing there holding their trophies of a bygone era...........
#35
Lexus Test Driver
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Originally Posted by psteng19
All of Acura's vehicles are FWD biased so I would hardly call them the Japan equivalent of BMW
#36
Lexus Fanatic
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Originally Posted by CK6Speed
I beg to differ. My mid engine RWD Acura is definately not FWD bias and IMHO it by far has better driving dynamics and feel than the BMW I owned and any of the Lexus cars I own. But, if you are talking about the RL. You would feel any FWD bias in that car at all anyway so technically it bahaves more like a RWD car than FWD car so what is the point? Even if we don't talk about the SH-AWD RL what about the Integra Type R? I would say it is hard to describe that car as FWD bias even though it is FWD. It has more neutral handling than some RWD cars and still can swing the rear end out if one desired.
Cars like the Celica GT-S, RSX-S and Integra Type R are too light and too small to display characteristics typical of a FWD layout.
#37
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (1)
Originally Posted by MPLexus301
The NSX, while still an Acura, is really a wildcard here and doesn't have a BMW model that it directly competes with. It's a fabulous car to drive though, regardless. As far as TSX, TL, and RL are concerned they are ALL either FWD or FWD biased. As state-of-the-art as Acura's SH-AWD is, the RL's power delivery is split 70% at the front wheels and 30% at the rear wheels in normal driving. Hardly RWD or even RWD-biased in any regard. Every review that I have read indicates that the RL has no problem gripping the road but sportiness is not it's fortay, even less so than the new GS. There are some inherent things about a FWD chassis that will never be overcome and until Acura wants to correct them by moving to a RWD setup, their lineup will have performance that is somewhat retarded (literally) by their platforms. Period.
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Oh, what about the Integra Type R? What are your thought's on that car? It has ben said to have wonderful driving dynamics that rivals RWD cars. Very neutral and even oversteer happy when pushed hard enough. Never mind, I just read your last paragraph.
#38
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
Originally Posted by CK6Speed
I see your point, but I still have a hard time buying that just because the RL has a 70% FWD bias under normal cruising conditions it behaves like a FWD biased car. Hear me out here. Under normal cruising I don't really think anyone can tell the difference between a FWD, AWD, or RWD car. I also doubt anyone can tell the difference if only one front wheel was propelling the car. It is only under certain conditions like hard acceleration, cornering, and maybe breaking where the chassis dynamics are really felt. In this case, the RL instantly transfers torque and power to the approriate wheels pretty much giving it a RWD feel at that instant when needed. Now, I am at a disadvantage since I don't have long term driving experience in the RL, I extensively test drove it once though. However, the RL even though it supposedly is FWD bias has a much sportier driving experience than my SC400. To further help my claim, I know of at least one NSX owner that just bought an RL and describes the driving feeling as very close to that of the NSX (Obviouslty not in acceleration or flat out handling). To tell you the truth, I think we can chalk all that up to the SH-AWD. It really does a wonderful job at holding back all the bad. You would think in a FWD biased transverse mounted engine car it would have major torque steer. The RL doesn't have any. You would think it has heavy pig like steering especially around corners. It does not. Take way the SH-AWD and the RL probably will handle like crap. However, it does have it and it really does transform the car into something it shouldn't be IMHO. I guess the real argument is not how the car behaves, but more the means to the end. Some may not like the idea of all that electronics and would much rather have the traditional proven layout. I could easily accept that as an argument. I'm just not ready to buy that the car bahaves like a FWD car though.
Oh, what about the Integra Type R? What are your thought's on that car? It has ben said to have wonderful driving dynamics that rivals RWD cars. Very neutral and even oversteer happy when pushed hard enough. Never mind, I just read your last paragraph.
Oh, what about the Integra Type R? What are your thought's on that car? It has ben said to have wonderful driving dynamics that rivals RWD cars. Very neutral and even oversteer happy when pushed hard enough. Never mind, I just read your last paragraph.
Suspension also has a lot to do with how a car feels. I drive a FWD Camry but it has TRD shocks and struts, low profile tires on BBS wheels, a front strut mount and a rear sway bar. My car DRIVES and FEELS tighter and harder than a RWD GS430 but at the limit the GS is certainly going to wipe the floor with my car, and in more ways than just acceleration . Oh yea, and my car certainly feels noseheavy and it's just the 4cylinder. Tight suspensions and lower profile tires deal with how a car feels getting up to the limit and can mask those inherent FWD characteristics, whereas drivetrain layout actually determines those limits and characteristics in the first place.
I could be wrong but I believe that the RL does maintain a 70% Front/ 30% Rear power distribution through most driving situations. I think that it's in cornering and rough weather where the power delivery begins to change itself around and even then SH-AWD seeks to prevent wheel slippage and a loss of traction...something that is easier to do in RWD cars just because of their layout.
The TL is one of the best FWD cars that I have ever driven, and I have to be honest, I think I'd buy one over any of its RWD or AWD competitiors (that might change on March 1st ). It felt almost as agile as a BMW 530i and actually more planted and more secure than the G35 that I also drove in the same day. Acura has done a good job of making FWD cars sporty feeling (TSX and TL namely), but the RL's biggest enemy is weight. I believe that the car weighs about 4,000 lbs and it's common knowlege that weight is any cars worst enemy. It's the RL's weight that makes the car harder to manage and less enthusiastic to drive. Coupling an FWD-biased-AWD system that tries to prevent any slippage or loss of traction with a car that weighs almost two tons just doesn't result in an overly athletic package, at least when compared to the competition.
The RL isn't a bad car at all, it's just not really sporty. The A-Spec will probably help to change that a bit, but see my second paragraph for more on that .
-Michael-
#39
Originally Posted by MPLexus301
Every review that I have read indicates that the RL has no problem gripping the road but sportiness is not it's fortay, even less so than the new GS.
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