Second Opinions

Editorial Director Kevin Smith says:
A final-tally spread of only a couple points suggests how tricky it can be to resolve fine issues of trade-off. For example, the Acura RL represents an efficiency play I really respect, its V6 delivering perfectly adequate commuting performance. And yet I'd like to get more motor if I could. What's that worth in a numerical score?

Similarly, the Infiniti M45's faintly rowdy edge is cool, but do I want to live with that in a luxury sedan? And how do I adjust numbers to capture that ambivalence?

But the Really Big Deal in this test, for me, was the Lexus GS 430 and its undefeatable stability control. I love the polish Lexus typically works into its products, the silence inside, the carefully considered resistance of buttons and switches, the precisely damped movement of ashtray covers, fercrissake.

However, shouldn't something that calls itself a sporting sedan allow me to accelerate hard out of a corner on a smooth, snaking road? The GS' electronic nanny will have none of it, holding off on the power until I'm well clear of the turn. That's a disturbing shortcoming, and I want to punish the car for it. Now, it's true that on my drive to work, I'm not very often trying to barrel around a bend with the throttle buried. And on balance, I'd still rather live with the daily driving experience the Lexus gives. So yes, it got winning points from me. But not as many as it should have, darn it!

Senior Road Test Editor Ed Hellwig says:
As if my rapidly thinning hair wasn't enough, now I have yet another sign that I'm getting old. It hit me after we were forced to choose which one of these sedans we would buy with our own money.

The Acura was never a contender. It was forgettable before and only slightly less so now. Its all-wheel-drive system is impressive, allowing you to keep pace with cars that should be faster, but the overall driving experience remains sterile. The interior has some style and the stereo will split your eardrums open like a coconut, but my enthusiasm just wasn't there. Same goes for the exterior styling.

On paper the M45 looked right, and in person it looked even better. It gets the "most like a BMW" award for its aggressive lines and stylish wheels. The engine rips, the tranny is tuned just right and the suspension feels like a sport sedan should. There's not much wrong with the interior either, but the gauges reminded me of those in the Altima and the overly complicated dashboard is annoying.

I wasn't expecting much from the GS, as Lexus leans toward luxury more often than sport, but this GS got to me. The interior is uniquely detailed, comfortable and ergonomically perfect. Its shape isn't as dynamic as the M45, but from most angles it's undeniably elegant. It lacks the raw feedback of the Infiniti yet keeps you in touch enough to feel involved. The stability control is an annoying black spot, but you have to really push to make it matter.

In other words, the GS is perfect if you're willing to forego the last 10 percent of the performance envelope. In years past that 10 percent is all I cared about, but at my advanced age that other 90 percent is looking more important all the time.

 

The 430 has VDIM. The VSC, ABS, and steering systems are so tied into each other.

 

Lets just see what the REAL reviewers say from car and driver, motortrend, etc. I'm sure there will be a comparison among the three. They complained about road noise in the m45. Well, thats understandable considering that it IS the sport model and not the regular model without the sport tuned suspension and 19" wheels. They should have compared the gs430, rl, and m45 non-sport. Actually, it should have been the RL, gs300awd, and m35awd. Either way, they had nice things to say about all the cars.

 

Edmunds tells Infiniti that they are doing a $50k SPORT sedan comparo, so Infiniti gives them their sportiest sedan closest to $50k (a M45 Sport with no options).

Then Edmunds gives the win to the LEAST fun-to-drive $60k vehicle. Hm...

I just wish they'd have tested a loaded non-sport M45 vs. the GS430, and left the RL out of it, and later do a comparo between the RL, M35x, and GS300 AWD.

The M45 got really knocked in the "features (20%)" category, which is silly because you could load up a non-Sport M45 similar to the GS430 and still hold the edge in value and sport.

The GS is clearly a superior vehicle in terms of refinement and ergonmics though, there is no denying that.

On a side note, I was disheartened by how much they found the VDIM to be intrusive. Hopefully, there will be a way to change the setting so that you can "tone" it down in future models and in the IS.

I was also disappointed by the relative acceleration performance of the GS430 vs. the M45. I thought the GS weight advantage and extra gear would make it closer. The GS460 will fix that, no doubt.

 

I don't think it makes a difference had they tested a non-sport M45, what it can gain in ride comfort will be cancelled out by less sporty handling.
I always find these kind of comparisons to be quite meaningless anyway, whether it's Edmund's or Car & Driver etc. Especially for closely matched vehicles like these,the results almost always depend on how they weigh the criteria in which they rank the cars, mostly arbitrary & subjective depending on individual preferences.

 

Very, very good point, jrock.

Infiniti shouldn't be blamed for sending what Edmunds asked them for. It's Lexus that is to blame for not following the rule and it's a shame on Edmunds for not realizing what comparison they're really doing and breaking their own rules.

Lexus won unfairly in this one, I concur. $60k vs $50k. Loaded vs. stripped. V8 vs. V6. Just how is that fair?

Again, Edmunds named this test a "2005-2006 $50K Sport Sedans From Japan Comparison Test". Had they named it a "2005-2006 Midsize Sport-Luxury Sedans From Japan Comparison Test", it would've been more likely that Infiniti sent them a more appropriate vehicle and that we were able to see a fairer comparison review.

 

Okay maybe we didn't read the same review. The M45 to them was the most fun to drive with the Trac off but it had 2 issues, 1 was it drove poorly over roads that were not smooth, 2 the GS steering to them was perfect, the M45s was considered loose. Now for those that do take your cars out and push them, you don't want to feel uneasy over rough pavement. Nor loose steering. THe main issue it seems with the GS was the VDIM/VSC coule not be turned totally off.

For those that want 100% sport and fun, you have to have those off. Its called oversteer and its bad when your out of control but fun when your in control.
Infintii it seems should have sent them a loaded car. Lexus sent them a loaded, fully speced GS. The RL is fully clothed. Infintii it seems did not want to give sticker shock with a 60k M45, so they tried to play the "value" angle with a base M45 (which is still loaded with features) and lost.

Its just 1 review and it was very, very detailed. The M35 non-sport was #1 in Motor Trend (RL 2nd, 530 3rd etc) but many agree, Motor Trend is garbage journalism. And that article explained nothing. But you can't take the win away from the M35.

The bottom line is the GS was picked as the best, the RL shocked us all being #2 and the M45 disapointed by being #3. The bottom line is people now are making excuses for the cars that didn't win. The bottom line is all 3 are winners for their respective car makers.

 

Actually, it probably would have made a huge impact on the end result.

1. Adjust the "recommended rating" to equal the GS (77.8) for which it was penalized due to harsh ride and noise
2. Adjust the "feature content" to equal both RL and GS (66.7)
3. Adjust the performance to equal the GS (86 - and this is assuming the M45 non-sport performance is equivalent to the GS which I don't believe)
4. Adjust the price to equal the GS (77.5 - which it wouldn't be because a full loaded M45 is less than a fully loaded GS)

The final score for the M will be 76.05 which nudges it past the RL (74.6), but still behind the GS (77.7).

If we adjust the performance for the M45 non-sport to be greater than the GS430 (due to the engine alone), and adjust the price rating higher than the GS (because a fully loaded M45 non-sport is cheaper than the GS), then the M45 could've very well placed first.

 

I think jrock was trying to point out that this isn't that "Infiniti should have sent them a loaded car". Instead, Lexus should've sent them a stripped GS430. The reason, again, is that Edmunds has named this test a "$50K Sport Sedans" test, not a "Midsize Sport-Luxury Sedans" test, so Lexus is the only one that broke the rule and had the unfair advantage, not the other two that followed the specification of the test. The only thing that would've made this "$50K Sport Sedans" test a fair test is for Lexus to send them a $50K Sport Sedan, period. Readers expect to find what sport sedan they can buy for $50K when they click on the title of this article.

Just wanted to make things perfectly clear.

 

Haha, I completly agree with you. In fact, I found review very details and explaining in depth the differences.

Here is what I have thought from start:

And they pointed out:

But I dont get:

It seems that they did not use PWR mode which will let you bounce off rev limiter as much as you want. And it probably is the reason why lover than expected 0-60 times.

As said, it simply feels as the best 50k-60k sedan on the market.For luxury cars, all of three matter: sport, refinement and luxury. It seems to me that GS is clear winner in 2/3 and on the spot with Sport as well. You cant have 60k car have refinement of 30k car, no matter how sporty it is - GS is not an car with average buyer age of 30, but more like 50 - like rest of its class. And in reality, as review pointed out, Lexus is the only one that feels like luxury car as well, others might as well be Honda's or Nissans (as they are).

I have said it before - some people simply dont want to read other people's opinion - when they say M45 IS THE BEST, we say maybe... but when we say (or mags say) GS is the best, they all scream in protests and funniest thing is that most of those people are nowhere close to being an average buyer in the class.

No matter what I or you or other people think, GS seems like an awesome car in its own right.

 

How you adjust them to be "equal" to the others are still arbitrary & how they weigh the criteria based on points are arbitrary in the first place,so all comparisons are significantly influenced by the methodology you used & how the individuals assign an arbitrary value to the criterias based on their own judgemnet some of which are quite subjective due to personal preferences.

What I'm saying it's it doesn't matter which car won in tests by any magazines or Edmunds, they do these tests mainly to sell magazines so people can talk & debate about it. The stats & the information they gave on the cars are informative, but their ranking are mostly worthless,people do not need their comparisons to tell them which cars are the best for them.

 

I adjusted the M45 to the lowest common denominator in each category.
The GS was lower than the RL in "recommended rating" and the feature content was equal with both the RL and GS.
Yes, subjective ratings are a ***** to manipulate

 

I totally agree that the ranking is worthless, but again, there IS one thing that can be "equal" here, and it is in the title of the article--50K, Sport, Sedan. Lexus giving Edmunds a $60K car for testing simply breaks this "equation". Infiniti did the right thing by sending Edmunds a $50K sport sedan. Acura did the right thing by sending Edmunds a $50K sport sedan. And guess who made the article really useless by giving Edmunds a $60K sport sedan for review? Lexus.

 

it doesnt matter since price was adjusted accordingly so Infinity was not penalized. Then again - you simply cant get all the features in Infinity that you can in Lexus - adjustable air suspension? Nope. VDIM? Nope... ML? nope... You simply cant get all the options in M45. Superb leather? Nope. Superb materials? Nope.

In fact, due to higher price, GS430 was penalized severly and price was grand 20% of the score.Yet it won. Difference between M45's content score and GS430's price score is actually tipped in M45's favour and not vice versa.

To tell you the truth, this is one of the best written reviews and most comprenhensive reviews that I have ever read - and I have probably read thousands upon thousands of magazines - these guys have explained it all and have given you an way to rate it for yourself as well.

Motortrend? One month before introduction of 2006 Avalon, they do comparo test with 2005 Avalon where it gets placed at the end of the line (of course, stone age car - yet why not wait a month later to do comparo that matters? :-)

 

So according to your theory, Lexus could've sent Edmunds an ES330 for review because Infiniti and Acura would've been penalized in the price ratings anyway, and that it's okay that ES330 doesn't match the other cars in content?

You know, when you do a scientific experiment or analysis, the first thing you do is to determine which factors stays constant, and which factors are variable. Well, the constants here are $50K, Sport, Sedan. The rest can be variables and they are what make a comparison review meaningful. If everything can be variable then there isn't any point for a comparison in the first place anymore. Something must stay constant.