VVT-i

For some strange reason I think the 06 GS430 with 13.1 inch rotors and a big 4 pistons caliper is strange. The brake system is as big as the one on the heavier LS430, strange huuh.

Why? Well, the 06 GS430 weight about the same as the 2nd gen GS. The engine is the same 300hp with 325 tq.

Why do the 06 GS430 need that much stopping power? The good old brake system on the 98-05 GS is fine and the stopping distance from 60-0 mph is good( I don't know the#).

Why Lexus only put this big brake on the GS430?

Are they testing the new brake system and get ready for the more HP GS in the near future. This way they know what kind of problem they will encounter/ fix it/ upgrade it, before the new and more HP engine will come out.

Now, in the term of Lean production. All they have to do is drop in the engine into the 06 GS430 and call it GS something. I mean the stopping power is there, the sport suspension is there, the 6 speed trannys is there and the car is ready for more HP.

They do the same thing on the 06 GS without Nav. They put the Nav screen there for the future Hybrid infomation display. This way they only need one dash designed and the car with Nav, without Nav and the Hybrid will share the same Nav screen. Just my .02.

spwolf

I dont get your post. Your first ask why do they need big brakes on GS430 and then you ask why didnt they put it on GS300?

GS430 is heavier car and it is flagship. Because it is heavier, it needs bigger brakes and because it is flagship, it needs bigger brakes. So it got...bigger brakes.

Why dont they put it on GS300? Well how the heck will it then be cheaper than 430? You cant put everything on it as on GS430 and then expect 10k difference in price :-)

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Interesting observation Nuum. What is the weight difference between GS430 and GS300 3rd gen? 2nd gen the difference is neglible, engines weigh about the same.


Also interesting that the stopping in the Edmunds GS430 test was pretty bad compared to the 2nd gen GS stopping distance... Not sure how proper a test that was, but if the 3rd gen brakes are bigger and better, why didn't they do better?

LexFather

Great find Nuum. What he is saying is that the GS brakes are larger than needed for the size engine of the car for now. He is also saying when the GS 460 comes, the brakes will be ready to accomodate the additional power. Lexus will also have all the info they need on how the brakes wear since they are already on the vehicle.

The screen is something else I caught and posted in another thread. Lexus is still a business and it about cutting costs where they can. They just have done an outstanding job hiding it or not making it so sadly obvious like many other cars. Instead of making 2 dashes, one without a NAV screeen and one with the screen, the cars have all one dash layout with the screen, with or without NAV. This is tremendous savings for the supplier, they now just have to build one dash layout instead of 2. This also means buttons won't have to be moved around too much or maybe not at all.


The 2GS for example, has the non Nav dash and Nav dash, so that is really 4 dashes. B/C they have to also send them to RHD countries.

The LS 430 brakes are huge and for the GS to have bigger brakes is a great move.

Thanks for sharing VVTi!!


I can't speak for the M45 or RL but the GS 430s are now electronic somewhat. And it seems to car makers it is a better setup but in tests they don't do as well. Looking at the Benz Electronic systems, they seem to share the same issues; clamp hard and you have less feel than a regular braking system. The reason for the electronic brakes are they are now tied in with the VDIM and VSC, etc etc so when the car loses control to the computer, it modulates everything.

Weight
Curb weight: 3,748 lb (1,700 kg) (GS 430)/3,536 lb (1,604 kg) (GS 300 RWD)/3,759 lb (1,705 kg) (GS 300 AWD)

VVT-i

Thanks Dave and Mike for the input.

spwolf, the 98-05 GS300 can come with all the options the GS400/430 have and the only differences is the engine. They put the same brake system on both 98-05 GS3/4 all years long. They even share same dual exhausts on the GS300,so the GS300 and GS400 can share the same bumpers, exhaust hangers, rear cross members and rear suspension system this way they don't have to designed 2 rear bumpers( one for the GS3 and one for the GS4), 2 exhaust hangers, and 2 of everything.

If you follow Toyota/Lexus, you will understand my point. Their best selling car is the Toyota Camry and they used the same platfrom base on 92 Camry on ES, RX, RAV4, Seinna and Avalon. My point is Lexus will not spend an extrra dime on something that doesn't needed.

My question is, all of the sudden Lexus started to be a big spender by designed 2 brake systems. One for the GS3 and one for the GS4.

jtanoyo1

Well, I can tell you one thing for sure. Having done the complete LS430 big brake transplant on my 2nd Gen aristo, I think the difference in braking is NIGHT and DAY.

Maybe Lexus actually listened to customer complaints that how can such a big-powered car like a GS430 have puny brakes like a "measly" GS300? Maybe, consumers gave back some feedback from the 2nd gen days that they really really feel that the brakes in the higher powered GS430 is severely bad. So that's probably one thing that they decided to upgrade in the 3rd gen.

Stopping 225hp is one thing, stopping 300hp is another!

Like most people in supraforums.com would tell you, having huge power is useless if you aren't able to stop your car when you need it most.

Mr Johnson

No...

Stopping 225 hp is no different than stopping 300. It's about mass and velocity and the car doesn't gain mass as velocity increases. Those of us infatuated with big brakes and six piston calipers simply need to accept that what we are buying with all our $$$$ is better feel and fade resistance. Stopping distance doesn't magically go down because we buy bigger brakes.

FWIW: Recall that rather than exotic 6 or 8 piston brakes the new M5 uses "only" 2 piston calipers. Yes the rotors are big it helps heat dissipation but the limiting factor in stopping our cars is tire traction. Bigger/stickier tires will help you stop shorter than 18 piston brakes.

Mr Johnson

Assuming the surface they tested on was the same then it's a matter of tire compound (stickyness), weight distribution and F/R brake balance. They may not have optimized it for panic stops (I hate the concept of EBFD) but rather for overall feel.



Hopefully they improve braking in the hi-po version (not by putting in bigger brakes!)

Edit: I have to agree with the earlier sentiment that Toyota (most companies) won't put something in that costs extra $ if they don't have to. In this case I think it's marketing that won out over technology. The "prestige" of the larger brakes (due to common misconceptions about bigger is better) helps to "sell" the car. If all they wanted to do was "test" the brakes they could do that in a much more strenous environment on the test tracks and in their labs than by releasing it to the public and letting us test them.

My $1.50

Rockville

When you drive the GS430 and you just give a little pedal pressure the brakes respond quickly but may not modulate as easily as the conventional GS300 brakes. If I needed to stop in a hurry I sure would like to have them on my rig. They are much more expensive to maintain. With the conventional brakes in the past generation you'd typically need front brake pads at some point. Later you'd throw on some rear pads. If you were heating up your rotors you might get some warping and the second time around need pads and rotors in the front. The rotors in the back do less work and weren't as prone to replacement as often. The new Hughes brakes on the front have these very long calipers. They are so nice I'd like to see them powdercoated gloss black or even red if we're going the mod route. Anyway expect to replace the pads and rotors every 20,000 miles or so on these super brakes. I am warning my customers about this so they are not surprised when this happens. The high performance tires may have a short lifespan especially the way I drive. The owners will need a healthy maintenance budget to keep this car in new slippers. This begs the question whether it is worth the extra cost? I think the control and likelihood of carrying high speeds with GS430 makes it a high performance setup and might even save money if you were to modify it later. The VDIM is the biggest breakthrough since ABS IMO. No longer will drivers have to worry about losing control when cornering. It is almost telepathic. Once you have it you don't want to drive anything else. The Traction Control section can be turned off if you want to spin the wheels but the rest is up to the VDIM. It will next be offerred on the RX400h and then the IS350. I hope Lexus puts it on all models from now on as it will surely save people's lives.

Neo

iTrader: (3)

I'm glad you pointed this out. I've been to the dealer a few times and they only seem to have the GS3s out. I looke at the brakes and was unimpressed. I did not realize the larger ones are on the GS430s only. I'll have to go check them out again.

HKGS300

i think besides adding stopping power, bigger brakes is an important feature nowadays. See it as the curent car fashion.

With smaller brakes the new GS430 would loose prestige against its competitors.