LiquidBlue

my point is that sales between the M45 and GS430 in 2003 and 2004 (the only two years the M45 has been in production), were comparable.

Incendiary

G35? Didn't it outsell IS and ES put together? Or am I mixing up my numbers here?

Gojirra99

Yes you did. The ES sedan alone sold 70,000 + last year, more than the G35 sedan & coupe combined. The market the ES caters to is more mainstream, same for the Toyota & Nissan version Camry vs. the Altima . . .

jrock65

The G35 easily outsold the IS, but the ES outsold the G35. At the same time, very few people cross-shop the G35 and the ES.

LiquidBlue

True. These cars cater to completely different markets. The ES has been and always will be Lexus' top selling sedan.. That's because it is basically a smaller front wheel drive version of the LS - comfortable, quiet, refined, and yet built on the affordable Toyota Camry platform. Infiniti had a direct competitor with the ES in the I35, but gave it up (even though it was a good solid seller) because they wanted to have only rear-wheel drive sedans in their lineup and cater to a more "enthusiast" market. So far, it seems that was a wise choice. The G35 has been routinely outselling the IS, its direct competitor. It will be interesting to see how the new M fares against the new GS.

Rockville

I want to tell you folks something. Since the 3rd Gen GS came out our showroom has been swamped! It was like a lever was pulled and suddenly we have people there test driving the GS. We have orders that haven't been filled yet and people are getting antsy for their new GS's. You 2nd Gen owners have to get with the program and give this car a drive. Thrash it if you think you can. It is so much better than the Gen. 2 that I can't figure some of the posts about how it's not this or that. The new owners know what I'm talking about. One of my Gen.2 GS owners who has had his new GS430 for about two weeks called me to say that not only does he love his new car but it saved his life already when a truck veered across a divided highway towards him and he gave it gas and the truck missed him. He said that if he had been in his GS300 it would have been curtains. The new GS just handles so much better then the last one. I took an extended test drive with another GS300 owner on Friday and he tried the AWD on for size. We were going through wooded and winding up and down back roads in Potomac in a light rain. He didn't want to go back to the store. Since he was an engineer by profession we got onto the discussion about Hybrids and VDIM. When he found out he could get the power of a V8 and the fuel efficiency of a small displacement he just signed up for the GS450h as soon as we returned.

Car and Driver has the the RL as one of its 10 Best. They like the M45 and its 19 inch rims. They put an end of cycle 6 cylinder BMW up against the other new releases. What kind of comparison is that? Typical magazine hack crap. If you can afford a luxury sport sedan then it really doesn't make any difference if its 55K ,60k or 65K. I would like to see an eventual match up between the RL, M35x, GS350 AWD, A6 and E350 4matic. Something like that would make sense. Also would be nice to have the 545 or newer BMW V8 vs. GS460, E500 and the C&D Editors pick M45. At least these would all be V8 RWD's. Now what could they compare the GS450h to? That's going to be a tough one for them. Since Car and Driver doesn't care about real world issues it is somewhat of a fantasy anyway. I don't have a single customer that races their GS on the track. I don't remember seeing much about crash worthiness in C&D. Reliability? Dealer service? etc. etc. Just more Pablum for the masses. With the Internet as an immediate source of information now who needs to kill more trees for this type of quality analysis? Motor Trend ( is the GS450h a new motor trend if ever there was one?) is more of the same. At least Consumer Reports actually goes to the dealership and buys a car like you would and drives it and takes it in for service and keeps a record of what happens. That's reality. Auto hacks continuously get the facts wrong while pushing for deadline even in the Weekly issues. The Monthly ssues are a joke. So much has transpired while they are edited then finally go to press and then are made available at the Newstand. I much prefer to get my automotive news here on Club Lexus. It's International in scope and it is real world testing. It's faster than a M45 too.......

flipside909

Of course, and the IS when it first came out easily outsold the G20 in 2000. So what's your point?

doug_999

Well since you asked...
As a 03 GS430 owner, I can tell you that the 06 does not blow me away. The screens are nicer but the functionality is the exact same. As the salesperson tried in vain to show me all of the cool stuff the 06 had I kept saying "yes, but I already have that" (he was more clueless than most sales people - my favorite comment from him was "The A6 has a V8 option? Then why do they call it an A6?". The 06 is beautiful, don't get me wrong, but it is not the improvement I expected after a 7 year wait.

With regards to C&D - I agree, test the V8s against the V8s. But give them credit, they specifically said they wanted the RL in there and they specifically said the BMW would have done better if they had waited until the new 530 was out. Unfortunately in the magazine world, you can't wait forever to test. (I mean jeez, we waited forever for the new GS

C&D' and Autoweek's biggest complaint about the GS is that the car is over managed by the electronics. As Autoweek said "The Lexus is good, but we would like a car that is good first of all without those electronic life-savers, as the 5 Series was when it was born, and then adds the electronics afterward, instead of depending on it to get there."

PS - Rockville, make sure you tell your people to not put the dealer plate over the rearview camera like my guy did. Sort of ruins that feature from a test drive standpoint.

jrock65

Maybe if you read what my post was responding to, you'll see that it was a simple response to Incendiary's question.

He asked: "G35? Didn't it outsell IS and ES put together? Or am I mixing up my numbers here?"

To which I responded: "The G35 easily outsold the IS, but the ES outsold the G35. At the same time, very few people cross-shop the G35 and the ES."

He didn't ask about the G20, and I was clarifying to him that the G35 did NOT outsell the IS and ES combined, and that it only outsold the IS. Have a good day.

spwolf

this kind of reminds me of FX35/45 vs RX330... 2 yrs later, FX sells 5x less than RX330...eh.

Rockville

Does Infiniti have a presence in Europe? They barely have a presence in my vicinity. I like the guy that posted he bought a new GS because his nearest Infiniti dealership was 100 miles away. Along with new models to be introduced at a feverish pace Lexus will upgrade and increase the Franchises that it has. Those that have proven successful to Lexus will be rewarded with new satellite stores and more allocation. Will Car and Driver test the G35, IS350 and new 330i against each other in the future? Any progress on the Diesel/Hybrid idea you posted on CL? I think that was prescient remark. What magazines do you endorse?

flipside909

I was making a point considering it's an open forum.

dseag2

My sentiments exactly. Same touch screen I had in my '01 and '03 GS's. Nothing new.

And I agree with your comment re: the car being overmanaged by electronics. The articles I've read about the GS remind me of the articles I've read about the BMW 6 Series. Wonderful car, goes fast, corners flat, but feels detached from the driver. I've never driven the 6 Series, but I've driven the new GS430, and "detached" is the only way I can describe it.

Rockville

I am amazed that anyone could drive the new GS and call it detached or some equivalent. The Gen 4 Nav system is ten times faster than the Gen. 3 that you have. The system has 10,000,000 phone numbers listed in it now. Most importantly it has Bluetooth phone capability whether you purchase Nav or not. It has voice command too but that is probable overrated. The addition of Satellite radio is a plus and let's not forget the rear backup camera. The suspension is much much better than before. The steering is quicker. The VDIM is revolutionary and the new 6 speed transmission is like butter. The body is sleeker and the car is more aerodynamic over all. The car is very smooth and maybe that is its fault. I guess some drivers equate noise vibration and harshness as some badge of sportiness. This car will carve turns and the wetter the pavement the better for the GS430's VDIM. It has much improved fuel efficiency in the six cylinder and now you can get AWD if you like, too. What were you expecting to find? An I -drive ****? This car has evolved tremendously and it really handles. If it is being compared to 6 Series then I would consider that a compliment but somehow it seems you meant it as a deficit. We sold our one remaining GS300 with Nav/Levinson on Saturday and that was still a nice car. The 2005 Model is officially sold out now for us and it's on to the next Gen. The GS doesn't always win the Comparisons but it doesn't get panned either. It is a solid entry and will have to make its own way in the world. Lexus is behind it and that is half of the battle anyway.

spwolf

Infiniti doesnt have any presence in Europe, and Nissan itself is doing pretty bad in Europe these days. They are really focused on the North American market when it comes to that.

As to the Diesel Hybrid, Toyota is the first and only company doing diesel hybrids right now, on their vans and trucks in Japan. It is an mild-hybrid system. I am sure eventually they will do full time diesel hybrid, in fact technology is already here. Problem is that it would be more expensive than petrol hybrid, and it would negate a lot of its advantages (pollution, refinement, etc).

As to the GS430, nothing new? lol. Actually, touch screen is used by less manufacturers than **** interface, so it is more exclusive in any case...