LexFather

Its cool. You got 3 posts, I don't want you to be seen as a "troll' that is all. Welcome to Clublexus. Lexus does share items (they are a business trying to make money) they just don't do it in such obvious ways.

encore888

e.g. the Toyota Camry and Lexus ES 330 ....vs. other rebadged attempts from unnamed Japanese and other foreign manufacturers!

LiquidBlue

My, we're sensitive... i said nothing about Infiniti selling sedans, i was speaking strictly about Lexus... let me restate: Lexus has a hard time selling sedans in comparison to MB and BMW.. That is factual. Now, if we're going to compare the Infiniti M specifically with the Lexus GS specifically, that is another issue, which I will address in another post.

LiquidBlue

Well, you didn't say that the 3.0 V6 is better than the VQ, but you implied it by stating that the 3.0 is new and the VQ is not.. Newer is not always better, especially when the newer is underpowered compared with the rest of the competition. Having said that, although the M uses a 5 speed tranny and the GS uses a 6 speed, that does not make the 5 speed any worse of a transmission.. It certainly hasn't improved the GS300's 0-60 times in comparison to the M35. So, while the GS may be different from the M in these categories, i'm finding it difficult to draw conclusions on how the GS is superior than the M based on your criteria.

encore888

Hard time selling? While it's true that Lexus ranks #5 in luxury car sales in the US, behind MB, BMW, Acura, and Cadillac, I hardly think that the LS is having much trouble against the S-class, its chief competition, nor is the ES doing poorly in its segment. The IS and GS classes are in the midst of turnover to new, exciting models. Right now Lexus is poised to improve on its luxury car sales figures, but hopefully not at the expense of quality or profitability.

And in the near future, as gas prices become a concern, the cars with improved fuel mileage, and perhaps even the added environmental and technological incentive of hybrid and other alternative fuel technologies, will become more attractive.

jrock65

What the LS has done is very impressive. Handily outsell the S and the 7.

The ES really has no competition from the imports, with the death of the I35. I guess the TL comes closer, but it's much sportier than the ES.

spwolf

yep.. made me laugh. Luxury cars are all about the details, this is where Japanese cars were deficient before, compared to the germans. Obviously reviewer doesnt care about "all that", but thats not your average buyer talking...

spwolf

lol... we get a lot of infiniti boyZ now, dont we? GS300 is one step down the ladder from M35 VQ performance wise, it is not meant to compete with it hp wise - that can be seen in torque figures, lower displacement, etc. Superior engineering doesnt help there to that extent (GS is significantly lighter, 6 speed, etc).

I dont thin MXX is that much faster engine wise, as recent numbers show, M45 was only 0.2 sec faster than GS430, throughout the testing - despite of 40hp more.

M is faster because Infiniti made it all about sportiness. Lexus didnt, and thats why Lexus is Lexus.
People who buy M want more sportiness, while people who buy GS want more luxury.

If 20yr old kids bought M45's, I would think M would be more sucessful of the two, but since target age is more like 50, I think GS will do better...

Itsuki_23

Some journalists are forgetting that not everybody considers harder sport-tuned suspension and overwhelming power as their first priorities when buying a sedan of this class. If it would be so Infiniti and BMW would be only players on the market. There are hundred things more in a luxury sedan that makes the car a complete experience. This USA Today journalist sounds like a streetracer. All the gearheads and sport-oriented drivers will be fully satisfied in 2006 when Lexus receives kickass power stronger than ever - GS350, GS450h and GS460. I can safely predict, that GS460 will put M45 to shame.

Rockville

The 2nd Gen. GS came out in '98 and caused a stir. That's ancient history now and the bar has raised significantly. Lexus has remained aloof in the 3 series and E class size sedans. They have been kicking butt the last two years with the LS430 since the refresh however. It outperforms the S500 and gets better fuel economy. It wins every super lux comparo also. It doesn't break. I am trading more BMW's and Mercedes than ever before right now. It won't take Lexus long to compete in the small and medium size sedans with the Germans. Of course I forgot to mention the 70,000 ES330's Lexus sold last year. Don't worry yourself about Lexus being able to sell sedans. Once a previous Mercedes or BMW owner is pampered by Lexus they seldom return. It's not just the car anymore. Our customers don't ask about Horsepower very often. They do care about comfort, safety, resale and ease of servicing such as loaner cars. Lexus has only one Luxury competitor right now and that is BMW. Where we live it is difficult to locate an Infiniti dealership. Infiniti doesn't have the production capacity yet and I hope they survive and prosper with the M and the G's. They have already jettisoned the Q to the trash heap. Lexus is number one in Initial Quality, Reliability etc. etc. for about the last 5-8 years depending on the category. That's why they are number one in sales. If you want Horsepower then check out the LFA. I have customers right now that want it. 150K, no problem, gotta have it. It's a Lexus that does 200MPH. Lexus is now headed up into the Stratosphere with a long wheelbase Super Lux Sedan. It might even be a Hybrid. Lexus might lose a few comparos like this one but they will win the war, just watch.

Giggzz

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2005-03-24-lexus-gs_x.htm

Changes already coming for the 2006 GS300 engine.....

flipside909

Well considering MB and BMW have been in the game for a long time now, and Lexus only being a 16 year old company, they're doing extremely well. Infiniti is the same age and they're no where near that. Your comparisons are based solely on opinion, not facts. Because as a whole, if you want to look at total sales of the 1st gen M (Not counting the M30 from 1990) with the total sales of the GS from that same year, regardless of it being only a 300 or 430, the numbers show it all. And we all know the 1st gen M45 is a flop considering it has been out not even 2 years. If you had an M35 in the mix of the same year, it still wouldn't sell. The car was ugly to begin with. It's just like the Q, high horsepower, but dismal sales. The LS has sold very well because it's an overall package, not just a so called "muscle car - hot rod" of the line up. So why only focus on Lexus to MB/BMW and conveniently omit Infiniti into the mix? It's fair competition. It's obvious Infiniti is not close. Don't be ignorant to the big picture. Sure they may have some exciting products out, but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone wants it.

flipside909

5 Stars

HONDA ACCORD
ACURA NSX
ACURA RL
GMC YUKON
HONDA ODYSSEY
INFINITI G35
LEXUS ES330
LEXUS GS300
LEXUS GS430
LEXUS GX470
LEXUS RX330
LEXUS SC430
MERCEDES-BENZ CLK CLASS
MINI COOPER
NISSAN FRONTIER
PORCHE 911 GT2
TACOMA PICKUP
TOYOTA 4RUNNER
TOYOTA CELICA
TOYOTA RAV4
TOYOTA SEQUOIA
TOYOTA TUNDRA
VOLVO C70
VOLVO S60
VOLVO V40
VOLVO V70


Hmmm where's that FX35/45 on the list? Not as good as the G35 is right, but not that great to make it on the 5 star list.

Only one Nissan and one Infiniti. Lexus and Toyota dominate the list itself. Not surprised.

cxp2001

iTrader: (1)

I don't really understand why Lexus would've just released the GS350 and GS470 this year.. and be done wiith it...I assume they wanted to address the hybrid market..

joshoowa

iTrader: (1)

the writer seemed very bias.. then again i need to do some of my own test driving.

BTW i think this should fall under the 3rd gen forum.