RON430

In all honesty, forget the comparisons and just look at the GS. And also in all honesty, I am somewhat disappointed in the new GS. Having bought two GSs new over the last few years, there isn't anything in the new GS that makes me think I am improving much over what I currently have. If I think back to when the second gen came out, what put it on the map was the GS 400 and those 300hp - remember something wicked? It never was said to have a great suspension but it had those hp and superior build quality. I know back a while the overwhelming opinion on the board was that the next gen should be evolutionary rather then revolutionary but the new GS is just a big ho hum for me. And when they inevitably do improve the engine, Lexus pull your head out of your butt - the GS3 needs to have more hp then the Avalon for crissakes, the comments will be made that the GS will finally have the engines it should have had from the start. But the sales to the sport sedan buyer that they are losing now will never come back. OK, so maybe this is harsh but I can't say that the GS is on my list to replace my current cars. And when I get past the performance issues, there are other issues, I echo the trunk issues as well.

So, if I have these feelings with the new GS just on its own, when you get around to comparing it to other models, well, you know how that is going to go. But then, just like bimmer is doing with its current ads touting resale value, we will start talking about reliability and resale, because there is not much there to get excited about from the sport sedan side. The RL at least had a month or two where it was the viewed well because it was new but now it looks like the top of the heap in this niche will remain the 5 and maybe the E and maybe the M will be able to be compared favorably. And Audi and Acura and Jaguar and Cadillac and Lexus will be a step down. Sort of looks inevitable for now.

LexFather

If you don't start posting some facts to support your ridiculous claims, you will lose all credibility. The LS is the best selling large luxo sedan and the ES just sold over 70k units. If anything INFINITI has trouble selling ANYTHING! The G35 still cannot match ES or Tl sales.
INFINITI HIGHLIGHTS

Sales for Infiniti were up 2.9 percent from last February with 9,787 units sold accounting for its best February

Calendar year-to-date sales are up 1.9 percent with 18,500 units soldHey bub, seems the QX56 SAVES Infiniti's butt. So pot is calling the kettle black.

January sales are here
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...hlight=januaryInfiniti sales up.5 %, due to the QX56 again

Lexus and no one will deny SUVs are SELLING. And to try to call out LEXUS, well you must be 8 years old. BECAUSE INFINTII NOW HAS THE FX and QX56!!! So it seems they are following Lexus in offering more than 1 SUV (the QX4 was a joke and is discontinued, not surprising).

Looking at the same links, MB is down like 14% AND THE ONLY THING SAVING BMW IS THE SUV X3!!!

LexFather

Please, your sounding like a child. The GS 300 0-60 time went from 7.8 to 6.8 seconds. I gave kudos to the VQ, what the heck do you want from me? Your missing the point, some people who think 0-60 is what will get them into heaven will buy the M35 and not care is 1 million VQ engines are year are sold. Some prefer the refinement and quiet of the 3.0 and don't really miss the power and are concerend with the total package., like a rarer engine.

Do your write for Motor Trend?

LexFather

I HAVE YET TO SEE ANY NISSAN FANBOY POST A LINK OR GRAPH OR ANYTHING TO SUPPORT THEIR OPINIONS!!
If you cannot debate without facts to support your claims, please, save yourself.

LexFather

Top five

Brand Parent company Problems per 100 vehicles
Model year
2004 2003
Subaru Fuji 8 17
Honda Honda 9 10
Acura Honda 10 13
Toyota Toyota 10 11
Lexus Toyota 11 9

Bottom five

Nissan Nissan 19 14
BMW BMW 21 19
Volkswagen Volkswagen 23 19
Mercedes-Benz DaimlerChrysler 25 22
Lincoln Ford 26 31
According to CR, Nissan is one of the bottom 5 companies for reliablity. And Infintii is not on the top 5 list.

They are indeed not close to being neck and neck

doug_999

No flip, THIS is the quote of the week.

LexFather

I disagree 100%. We are here, with links and graphs and facts supporting our claims and disclaiming others. On the Benz forum, its a simple "Lexus sucks" from many people (not all) and ignorant statements like 'they are just Toyotas" and "they are all hooked up Camrys". .

Here, no one has said Infiniti is a bad brand nor has anyone stated the new M45 is not a worthy competitor. In countless threads, we have given appreciation, stated Infintii is turning it around some and we probably have more info on the M here than anywhere else. . But some of us are stating that we prefer the GS over the M and we are posting why. That is all.

In the USA today article, the guy basically states the M is superior b/c it is faster/more powerful and handles more sporty (with nothing to back the claim up) and dismisses everything else about the GS as "debatable". Guess what, the other "debatable" stuff is why people in this class buy these cars, not for 0-60 ratings.

doug_999

Mike, you have to admit, a lot of people on this board sound like Mercedes owners back in 1989. Back then Lexus came out with a superior product and what did you hear? Comments like and I quote from this thread with the makes replaced...
"Bottom line, the Lexus can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Mercedes"

The point is watch out - the bar is moving. People want more out of their cars than serene luxury - they want fun and the new GS does not have it. I've driven it, I like it - but as Ron points out, my current GS has almost everything it has - except that I can disable the stability control in mine

flipside909

No Doug it's not. it's how you perceive it.

LiquidBlue

Lexus made a big mistake by keeping the generation two for as long as it did. The 3rd generation should have come out in 2003 as model year 2004, IMO.. Then, they could have refreshed the engines with the 3.5V6 and the 4.6V8 this year for model year 2006. I think most will agree that generation two overstayed its welcome longer than it should. And the general public agrees with that by looking at GS sales numbers for the past two years.. But because Lexus doesn't want to destroy the resale value of their generation two GS's (thus affecting their pre-owned sales), they had no choice but to offer the same engines initially for this 2006 GS.. They waited too long and they made a big mistake by doing so. I read somewhere that they were focusing on their SUV lineup for a few years, so the GS redesign took a back seat for awhile.. not good.

LiquidBlue

OK, except my post was regarding Lexus sedans vs. MB and BMW sedans. Again, for the 3rd time, i said nothng about Infiniti's sales. Go fetch the list where it compares Lexus sedan sales with MB and BMW sedan sales, then we'll talk.

LiquidBlue

quiet?? From what I've heard from new owners, the new 3.0V6 is anything but quiet. I have read several posts on here where people are complaining of an annoying "ticking" noise coming from the engine. So, if you consider ticking noises "refined", then you are certainly in the minority.

LiquidBlue

Well apparently it does matter. For years, the 5 series has routinely beaten up on the GS in sales. It's those faster, more powerful, more sporty handling characteristics that the 5 series has over the GS that makes it a more attractive package for most people. It certainly is not because it's a more affordable choice. All i'm saying is that some people like more refined vehicles as their "luxury sports sedan", but most probably don't.

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

the 2nd Generation GS was aimed directly at the 5 series and E class. Hence they are on the same generation cycle. This is not a family sedan sector of the market (ala Camry and Accord) that needs a major redesign every 4~5 years. No need to introduce a new model unless they absolutely have to. In this market sector, only those cars that failed to start strong will need a redesign after only a few years.

As for the same engine, the new 5 series and E class were also using engines from the previous generation when they were introduced. It's not like they had no choice, but it was the smarter thing to do.

Gojirra99

True for the 6 cylinders 530 & E320, but the 540 & E430 were upgraded to 545 & E500 when thet're introduced.