Motor Trend GS430/M45 Face Off
04-02-05 | 02:13 PM
#31
Lead Lap
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 642
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
Please be quiet and enjoy your cars. The 2 cars are completely different and I am tired of comparing them. Just pick your favorite, buy it, and go praise it on a specific board for that car. I would much rather talk about how great the GS is than bash it. If only we could all accept our differences. 
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I wish there was some sticky about comparing these two so it could be isolated to one post so that we don't have like 5 threads on the same subject.
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX from another thread
1. If you want the most HP, please buy a M5. V-10, 507hp, that should fulfill all needs on public roads with speedlimits mostly around 45mph and maybe 70mph tops, depending on where you live.
2. I don't know where 300hp and 325lbs of torque and 0-60 in under 6 seconds is slow. So what is someone is faster or has more power. If you want it, go there. Lexus is about the total experience, not about some single minded way.
3. (NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS POST)
4. We have beaten this topic to death as Sexy said.
5. Lexus resale is some of the best in the industry, moving up to GS 350 will not hurt 300 sales. Lexus is desirable, period. They just sold 3k GSs in March, clearly, the market doesn't have its head stuck up its butt thinking the most horsepower means you have bigger *****.
6. (NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS POST)
7. Lexus has stated, themselves, they will wait to debut new engines to keep the lineup fresh.
8. (NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS POST)
9. Lexus is about LONG TERM. Short term is thinking GASOLINE engines are the way to go and gas and oil is an infinite resource. Lexus has created hybrids, whereas others are behind or simply buying the technology. If Lexus was short term, they would be in the position some other brands are currently in.
10.(NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS POST)
Yes, it would be super cool for Lexus to also, be tops in HP and 0-60 but that war is in all honesty, never-ending and silly. Look st AMG/M/RS now. Its out of control.
2. I don't know where 300hp and 325lbs of torque and 0-60 in under 6 seconds is slow. So what is someone is faster or has more power. If you want it, go there. Lexus is about the total experience, not about some single minded way.
3. (NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS POST)
4. We have beaten this topic to death as Sexy said.
5. Lexus resale is some of the best in the industry, moving up to GS 350 will not hurt 300 sales. Lexus is desirable, period. They just sold 3k GSs in March, clearly, the market doesn't have its head stuck up its butt thinking the most horsepower means you have bigger *****.
6. (NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS POST)
7. Lexus has stated, themselves, they will wait to debut new engines to keep the lineup fresh.
8. (NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS POST)
9. Lexus is about LONG TERM. Short term is thinking GASOLINE engines are the way to go and gas and oil is an infinite resource. Lexus has created hybrids, whereas others are behind or simply buying the technology. If Lexus was short term, they would be in the position some other brands are currently in.
10.(NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS POST)
Yes, it would be super cool for Lexus to also, be tops in HP and 0-60 but that war is in all honesty, never-ending and silly. Look st AMG/M/RS now. Its out of control.
04-02-05 | 03:27 PM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
From: A better place
Originally Posted by jrock65
"This brings us to perception: with the GS being more isolated, and smoother than the M, car mags no doubt percieve the M to be more "sporty" based on ride harshness, and the fact that you can feel the road more than on the GS; less isolation in other words."
Based on my experience with the GS and M, I disagree with you. The M isn't just "perceived" to be more "sporty" because it has more road feel/harshness.
The handling feel of the GS feels much lighter and boosted relative to the M. Actually, the road feel of the GS was surprisingly good and well balanced. It was the boosted handling that I didn't lilke. Also, there was a noticeable difference in oomph between the two cars, adding to the M's sport appeal.
Based on my experience with the GS and M, I disagree with you. The M isn't just "perceived" to be more "sporty" because it has more road feel/harshness.
The handling feel of the GS feels much lighter and boosted relative to the M. Actually, the road feel of the GS was surprisingly good and well balanced. It was the boosted handling that I didn't lilke. Also, there was a noticeable difference in oomph between the two cars, adding to the M's sport appeal.
I won't argue about the "oomph" as the M45 has a more powerful engine, but the GS is still plenty. Either way, we will soon see the 4.6L in the GS, so it's all good
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04-03-05 | 09:55 AM
#33
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 839
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Just got my april issue of car&driver, and i'm really pissed that the 06 GS430 got third place on there comparo article. The M45 is a handful so it desivered to be first GS430 even got beat by the new RL how come second place wasn't going to happen. What is everybodys thought on this? Is Car&Driver beig biased. 
04-03-05 | 08:56 PM
#34
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,218
Likes: 10
From: MD
Just a comment...
Since all of these cars we compare are excellent we really are making fine distinctions. The similar slalom figures prove that the GS430 keeps up just fine with the M45 and its 19" wheel/tires. Make another test with wet slalom and see what happens. Try going around a wet skidpad too. My favorite thing to do lately is to follow up with a new GS owner. Man are they excited. It gets me pumped up the way they are so blown away. They will not let me off the phone while they describe how much they love their GS. One previous BMW 528 manual owner just went completely ape____ after he got back from a weekend trip with his family. He loves his GPS, Bluetooth phone, Back up camera, Rubber Mats and the Flint Mica paint with the Ash Interior. His friends are astonished by the car's interior and sound system. I just picked up Emerson, Lake and Palmer on DVD audio and I'm going to check it out tomorrow on the Mark Levinson in full 5.1 Surround Sound..... Life is good.
04-04-05 | 03:33 PM
#35
Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 155
Likes: 2
From: Georgia
Originally Posted by Rockville
Since all of these cars we compare are excellent we really are making fine distinctions. The similar slalom figures prove that the GS430 keeps up just fine with the M45 and its 19" wheel/tires. Make another test with wet slalom and see what happens. Try going around a wet skidpad too.
04-04-05 | 05:31 PM
#37
Super Moderator
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 30,120
Likes: 231
From: Canada
Originally Posted by XeroK00L
Wow...can you tell us which cars got placed before the M45, genearch? Thanks. 
1. A6 4.2
2. GS430
3. E500
4. M45
5. 545i
6. RL
04-04-05 | 05:38 PM
#38
Pole Position
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
From: Reno, NV
Here are a couple links to pictures from the Automobile Magazine comparison test
http://www.automobilemag.com/photo_g...omparo_europe/
http://automobilemag.com/photo_galle...comparo_japan/
http://www.automobilemag.com/photo_g...omparo_europe/
http://automobilemag.com/photo_galle...comparo_japan/
Last edited by jwaters; 04-04-05 at 05:44 PM.
04-04-05 | 07:27 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,813
Likes: 1
From: The Bay Area, CA, USA
Originally Posted by AmethySC
According to the thread(locked) on Automobile's comparison, it's
1. A6 4.2
2. GS430
3. E500
4. M45
5. 545i
6. RL
1. A6 4.2
2. GS430
3. E500
4. M45
5. 545i
6. RL
Good to see the new GS being ranked at or near the top in most comparison reviews so far.
04-05-05 | 10:45 AM
#41
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,963
Likes: 176
Originally Posted by jrock65
Based on my experience with the GS and M, I disagree with you. The M isn't just "perceived" to be more "sporty" because it has more road feel/harshness.
The handling feel of the GS feels much lighter and boosted relative to the M. Actually, the road feel of the GS was surprisingly good and well balanced. It was the boosted handling that I didn't lilke. Also, there was a noticeable difference in oomph between the two cars, adding to the M's sport appeal.
The handling feel of the GS feels much lighter and boosted relative to the M. Actually, the road feel of the GS was surprisingly good and well balanced. It was the boosted handling that I didn't lilke. Also, there was a noticeable difference in oomph between the two cars, adding to the M's sport appeal.
If you had 2 M45's with same "difference" in acceleration tests, you most likely would not be able to notice it...
04-05-05 | 11:08 AM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 0
From: None
Originally Posted by spwolf
some of it is perception for sure, since M45 gets only 0.1-0.2 sec in most tests faster times than GS430, and thats hardly noticable difference in real life performance states.
C&D got a .2 second difference (.5 second difference in the more real world 5-60 street start)
MT got a .3 second difference
Edmunds got a .8 second difference
Of course, I know that GS aficionados will always quote the .2 second C&D difference as the standard, but it seems that the average difference is about half a tick. Also, even C&D got a .5 second difference in the non-torque braking 5-60 test.
In any case, I can tell the difference in the acceleration between these two cars. Some may not. I can also appreciate the extra bit of sport of the M in normal street driving, just like I can appreciate the extra bit of refinement that the GS has to offer over the M.
As an aside, I'm sure that the 2006 550i will blow both of these cars out of the water in acceleration. The 545i gets 5.3s 0-60 in auto form. I won't be THAT surprised if the 550i auto manages to squeak in 4.9s 0-60 in some test. It'll be expensive though. You gotta pay to play.
04-05-05 | 11:16 AM
#43
Lexus Connoisseur
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 19,802
Likes: 534
From: USA
Originally Posted by jrock65
So far, there have been 3 0-60 tests that have pitted the M45 vs. the GS430.
C&D got a .2 second difference (.5 second difference in the more real world 5-60 street start)
MT got a .3 second difference
Edmunds got a .8 second difference
Of course, I know that GS aficionados will always quote the .2 second C&D difference as the standard, but it seems that the average difference is about half a tick. Also, even C&D got a .5 second difference in the non-torque braking 5-60 test.
C&D got a .2 second difference (.5 second difference in the more real world 5-60 street start)
MT got a .3 second difference
Edmunds got a .8 second difference
Of course, I know that GS aficionados will always quote the .2 second C&D difference as the standard, but it seems that the average difference is about half a tick. Also, even C&D got a .5 second difference in the non-torque braking 5-60 test.
04-05-05 | 11:30 AM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 0
From: None
Originally Posted by flipside909
Well the Inifniti owners seem to favor the C&D tests, so why not use their ratings as a basis? It's only fair game imho.
I remember TL owners liked to quote the best times for the TL and the worst times for the G35, and say that the TL is faster. Which, of course, is nonsensical as well.
The GS350 and GS460 are coming next year, so Clublexus people should only have to "suffer" the outrageous "indignity" of having a slower car only for a year and a half.
We'll have to see what Infiniti has up their sleeve when that time comes.
04-05-05 | 03:58 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by jrock65
Lexus owners liked the Edmunds test, so I guess in Freshalloy they should use a .8s difference as a basis? In any case, who likes what test doesn't really matter. In my opinion, the most rational thing to do would be to take an average of the difference in the various head to head tests.
I remember TL owners liked to quote the best times for the TL and the worst times for the G35, and say that the TL is faster. Which, of course, is nonsensical as well.
The GS350 and GS460 are coming next year, so Clublexus people should only have to "suffer" the outrageous "indignity" of having a slower car only for a year and a half.
We'll have to see what Infiniti has up their sleeve when that time comes.
I remember TL owners liked to quote the best times for the TL and the worst times for the G35, and say that the TL is faster. Which, of course, is nonsensical as well.
The GS350 and GS460 are coming next year, so Clublexus people should only have to "suffer" the outrageous "indignity" of having a slower car only for a year and a half.
We'll have to see what Infiniti has up their sleeve when that time comes.
The M45 is faster than a GS 430, cool, no arguement there and clearly, looking at sales, big deal.