LexFather

The 450h is not designed to be a AMG killer I agree 100% but looking at the RX400h passing times, they are best in class and on par with high-horsepower cars. With the electric motor, there is no spooling up, the torque hits instantly.

I don't think it will be E55 power, which is on par with a Ferrari 575 for acceleration, which is incredible considering the heft. But the 450h won't be a slouch (we are speculating about a car we hardly know anything about though

As far as calculation the torque, there is no standard way to do it with the hybrids. Technically the RX400h has 600 lbs torque I think.

chiawei

I have been to two MB dealers here in bay area. One is where I bought 4 mercedes from (within a year period), and of course they treat me like a king.

The other dealership is 5 minutes away from my house. Unless they dig up all my record, they had no clue that I have 3 other mercedes when I brought in my wife's CLK320. I have been treated just as well at this dealership (car was washed and vaccumed). So at least i don't think its just because of me.

The lexus dealer does not take the extra step (i.e. wash and vaccum your car). And to me just seems a little cold to me.

The loaners at mecedes here in bayarea are mix of C, E, ML.

As far as BMW goes, their service still bad.

LexFather

Okay 400h engine info

ENGINE
Type: V-6, aluminum block and heads
Bore x stroke: 3.62 x 3.27 in, 92.0 x 83.0mm
Displacement: 202 cu in, 3311cc
Compression ratio: 10.8:1
Fuel-delivery system: port injection
Valve gear: chain-and-gear-driven double overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, hydraulic lifters, variable intake-valve timing
Power (SAE net): 208 bhp @ 5600 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 212 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
Maximum: engine speed 5600 rpm

ELECTRIC MOTORS
Front transaxle
Type: 3-phase AC permanent-magnet synchronous motor powered by 30 9.6-volt nickel-metal hydride batteries
Power (SAE net): 165 bhp @ 4500 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 262 lb-ft @ 0–1500 rpm
Rear transaxle
Type: 3-phase AC permanent-magnet synchronous motor powered by 30 9.6-volt nickel-metal hydride batteries
Power (SAE net): 67 bhp @ 4610 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 96 lb-ft @ 0–610 rpm

So adding it all up 570lbs torque

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=4


The GS 450h will have even more power.

looknow12

Electric motors do provide instantaneous torque. Chiawei you obviously know a great deal about the E55 and a good deal about gas engines, but I don't think you are giving electric motors any credit whatsoever. This is not a golf cart electric motor we are talking about. Electric motors are used in applications beyond the power of any automobile. i.e. they even use them in rock crushing facilities. A gas engine requires time to build up momentum while waiting for every 4th stroke to ignite fuel. Whereas electric motors rely on electrons... they can travel pretty fast. The torque is delivered at lower RPM's with electric motors.

We don't know what the specs will be yet for the 450h, that is true, but don't discount electric motors, they might just surprise you.

whitels

Electric motors have torque on standby at 0 rpm.

looknow12

LOL - I knew it was low.

iatacs19

i agree 100%.

highmiles

Just stopped by my Lexus dealer and the Sales Manager said that they just got an AMG E55 in on trade and that he took it for a "spirited" drive yesterday. Said it was the fastest car he ever drove and was simply amazing. I should have asked what a used E55 would go for? I don't expect it will last long.

kb2yza

Well for the record: The lexus dealer I use washes and vacuums my car after service, and will give you a loaner of an IS, ES, RX, or LS (LS for those who bring in an LS). I have received a phone call after every service to make sure everything went OK. As for MB, I drive by the dealer daily and the yellow lights of a flatbed catch my eye at least 4 days a week while they wait for MB to open in the morning. While you talk of people being cold that reminded me exactly of what it was like when I went to look at a G class, sales people were very cold and cared only about the sale and were agrevated that I had a question or two about the vehicle. I am happy with Lexus sales and service, very warm and happy to assist.

petshopii

Nice problem U are having here..

I would go for the 430H and invest the remaining 30+ and extra gas $ that I would be saving into the market.. go find some financial advisor who can help your manage your $$$ and get some good relistic return... when U retire later.. U can then get your Rolls or Ferrari...

If U need help... I am a fiancial advisor myself =)

Good Luck.

William

chiawei

No. This is not exactly true. For example prius electric engine's torque is rated at 295 lb-ft.

Even if GS450H uses the same electric motor and it must be operate at max.

The gasolnine engine must make 221 LB-ft at a mere 2650 RPM just to match what E55 has at its peak.


The 3.5 V6 is currently rated 260 lf-ft @ hight 4700 RPM. At 2650 RPM, you are probably looking at around 200 LB-Ft.

So in other words, to match E55's torque you must be operating a max output from the electrical motor and nearly at gasoline engine's torque peak, Which simply is not realistic.

In addition, not all of the engine output is used to power the car, hence there are powerloss to charge the batttery. Not to mention that if you are flooring the hybrid constantly, you are bound to ran out of electrical power.

On the other hand this is not an issue with E55.

So stop reading the number and try to understand what the number's mean,

chiawei

The problem is that you simply can't add all the number together and claim that RX400H is a 440HP/570 lb-ft SUV. But you can call E55 a 469HP/516 LB-ft car.

Even lexus acknwledges that the max output from the hybrid system is max 268 HP not a sum of all three motor max power added together. (which only added 38HP from base 3.3 V6)

To conclude that RX400H max torque is 570lb-ft is a joke. The truth is that RX400H probably has around 300 LB-ft max system torque.

Even GS450h with bigger gasoline engine, will probably has system HP of around 330HP, and toque probably significantly less than 400 lb-ft.

looknow12

Once again you are speculating. Your response to me one post ago about using the same electric motors from the Prius is humorous. Even the RX uses much more powerful motors than the Prius. And the Prius is designed and tuned for efficiency, not to power a sports car or an AWD SUV.

To counter your post to sicklex, when called upon (full throttle), the "Synergy Drive" system will employ all power sources available to accelerate this car. We're talking about 0-60 times in the mid to low 5's. (Mark my word on that, though yes, it is speculation). The RX400 currently gets from 50-70 in 3.5 seconds, 30-50 in 3.3 seconds. Most of the accelerations for the GS will be performed in quicker times. Regarding the battery fallout, with the GS you'll hit your target speed long before the battery fades...Unless you're full out accelerating past 100. (no one ever said the GS40H would be an AMG killer, not today anyway)

Bigger electric motors, rear drive, no need to drive an additional two wheels, a bigger gas engine and finally and better tuned Synergy Drive for this Sports Car, and you'll see very nice results.

Don't discount electric motors. As I said before, they are used in tremendous industrial applications for their awesome torque. Rock crushers have 4'x6' jaws in them that destroy these big rocks to oblivion.

LexFather

I agree, there is no standard way to figure out the maximum torque numbers. I voted to get the E55 anyway

J.P.

"Don't discount electric motors. As I said before, they are used in tremendous industrial applications for their awesome torque. Rock crushers have 4'x6' jaws in them that destroy these big rocks to oblivion."



Yep. TQ is something gas cannot mess with. Go to a steel plant, and watch a DC Crane pull up a 100,000lb steel coil 30ft into the air in the same time it takes a yoyo to snap up from the bottom to the top of your hand.

TQ with Electric is instant, and constant. We all know gas explodes and can see why the engine moves, but electric is something amazing when used for high power apps.