2005 E55 or 2006 GS430?
05-05-05, 11:05 AM
#76
Originally Posted by looknow12
Once again you are speculating. Your response to me one post ago about using the same electric motors from the Prius is humorous. Even the RX uses much more powerful motors than the Prius. And the Prius is designed and tuned for efficiency, not to power a sports car or an AWD SUV.
To counter your post to sicklex, when called upon (full throttle), the "Synergy Drive" system will employ all power sources available to accelerate this car. We're talking about 0-60 times in the mid to low 5's. (Mark my word on that, though yes, it is speculation). The RX400 currently gets from 50-70 in 3.5 seconds, 30-50 in 3.3 seconds. Most of the accelerations for the GS will be performed in quicker times. Regarding the battery fallout, with the GS you'll hit your target speed long before the battery fades...Unless you're full out accelerating past 100. (no one ever said the GS40H would be an AMG killer, not today anyway)
Bigger electric motors, rear drive, no need to drive an additional two wheels, a bigger gas engine and finally and better tuned Synergy Drive for this Sports Car, and you'll see very nice results.
Don't discount electric motors. As I said before, they are used in tremendous industrial applications for their awesome torque. Rock crushers have 4'x6' jaws in them that destroy these big rocks to oblivion.
To counter your post to sicklex, when called upon (full throttle), the "Synergy Drive" system will employ all power sources available to accelerate this car. We're talking about 0-60 times in the mid to low 5's. (Mark my word on that, though yes, it is speculation). The RX400 currently gets from 50-70 in 3.5 seconds, 30-50 in 3.3 seconds. Most of the accelerations for the GS will be performed in quicker times. Regarding the battery fallout, with the GS you'll hit your target speed long before the battery fades...Unless you're full out accelerating past 100. (no one ever said the GS40H would be an AMG killer, not today anyway)
Bigger electric motors, rear drive, no need to drive an additional two wheels, a bigger gas engine and finally and better tuned Synergy Drive for this Sports Car, and you'll see very nice results.
Don't discount electric motors. As I said before, they are used in tremendous industrial applications for their awesome torque. Rock crushers have 4'x6' jaws in them that destroy these big rocks to oblivion.
you are the one that is claiming that GS450H's electric motor will challeng the AMG.
The truth is that the output is simply not sum of all three motors. You will not get close to 500 LB-ft total system torque out of GS450H simple as that.
All available power? Like i have said, a full throttle the max power from that system on RX400H is only 268HP not 440 HP.
Remember synergy drive does not mean you get all max power from all three motors delivered to the wheel at same time.
Like I have said, you have not proved what you claimed. There is not 500 LB-ft of torque from Lexus hyrid available at a mere 2650 RPM. This is not the case with AMG.
E55 does 0-60 in low 4 not low 5. It will probably remain a second faster in 0-60 than GS450H.
Show me where a lexus Hybrid system that develop over 500LB-Ft of torque at 2650 RPM. Otherwise your claim is simply useless in real world.
We can talk about max rating on each motor as stand alone all day. But in reality, under full throttle your max power is not sum of three motors combined. RX400H proved to be the case.
268HP vs 440 is a huge difference and blew your comment totally out of water.
05-05-05, 11:26 AM
#77
Super Moderator
You're making up stuff other people didn't say again 
, he never said it 'll challenge E55 in all measurements of speed including 0-60 or 1/4 mile, just that the hybrid motor's instant torque will enable it to achieve very impressive passing times at certain speed making it comparable to more powerful cars. You should know that TQ is more relevant to acceleration than peak hp.
Just curious, what passing times does your E55 get for 30-50 & 50-70 ?
, he never said it 'll challenge E55 in all measurements of speed including 0-60 or 1/4 mile, just that the hybrid motor's instant torque will enable it to achieve very impressive passing times at certain speed making it comparable to more powerful cars. You should know that TQ is more relevant to acceleration than peak hp. Just curious, what passing times does your E55 get for 30-50 & 50-70 ?
05-05-05, 11:48 AM
#78
EV ftw!!!
Originally Posted by AmethySC
You're making up stuff other people didn't say again , he never said it 'll challenge E55 in all measurements of speed including 0-60 or 1/4 mile, just that the hybrid motor's instant torque will enable it to achieve very impressive passing times at certain speed making it comparable to more powerful cars. You should know that TQ is more relevant to acceleration than peak hp.
Just curious, what passing times does your E55 get for 30-50 & 50-70 ?
, he never said it 'll challenge E55 in all measurements of speed including 0-60 or 1/4 mile, just that the hybrid motor's instant torque will enable it to achieve very impressive passing times at certain speed making it comparable to more powerful cars. You should know that TQ is more relevant to acceleration than peak hp. Just curious, what passing times does your E55 get for 30-50 & 50-70 ?
Nobody is saying the future 450H is going to beat an E55. Not sure how chaiwei is getting that impression.
What everyone is saying is that you should (referring to chaiwei) not completely discount electric motors immense torque and just wait till the 450H is out before you pass judgement.
Last edited by Hameed; 05-05-05 at 12:11 PM.
05-05-05, 02:48 PM
#79
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by Hameed
I was just about to say the same thing.
Nobody is saying the future 450H is going to beat an E55. Not sure how chaiwei is getting that impression.
What everyone is saying is that you should (referring to chaiwei) not completely discount electric motors immense torque and just wait till the 450H is out before you pass judgement.
Nobody is saying the future 450H is going to beat an E55. Not sure how chaiwei is getting that impression.
What everyone is saying is that you should (referring to chaiwei) not completely discount electric motors immense torque and just wait till the 450H is out before you pass judgement.
05-05-05, 03:24 PM
#80
Lexus Test Driver
How about a E55 wagon?
Check this article out: http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/26/Auto..._amg/index.htm
Check this article out: http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/26/Auto..._amg/index.htm
05-05-05, 03:37 PM
#81
Originally Posted by Hameed
I was just about to say the same thing.
Nobody is saying the future 450H is going to beat an E55. Not sure how chaiwei is getting that impression.
What everyone is saying is that you should (referring to chaiwei) not completely discount electric motors immense torque and just wait till the 450H is out before you pass judgement.
Nobody is saying the future 450H is going to beat an E55. Not sure how chaiwei is getting that impression.
What everyone is saying is that you should (referring to chaiwei) not completely discount electric motors immense torque and just wait till the 450H is out before you pass judgement.
Yes electric motor has instaneous torque. But Toyota hybrid synergy drive does not mean you will have sum of all max torque available from both electrical and gasoline motor. In other word you are not going to have 500LB-FT torque available for passing. Simple as that.
Like i have said earlier, what immense torque from the electric motor?
Yes on paper it looks nice. All three motor on the RX400H has total max torque of 570 and 440HP. But what is the max output for all three motor in the hybrid system? 268HP NOT 440HP!!!!
The number for 30-50 and 50-70 is 2.1 and 2.3 second for the E55. Do you really think that GS450H will be able to chopp off 30-50 and 50-70 times to come close to 2 second range?
GS450H should be slightly faster than GS430. But it will not be in the E55 nor M5 territory.
05-05-05, 11:44 PM
#83
Originally Posted by EmeraldLexuSC3
Even if money was not an option, I would not spend +$80k on a 'E' class.
Last edited by ATSOU; 05-05-05 at 11:50 PM.
05-07-05, 04:56 AM
#84
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for looks: E55
for driving: M5
for quality: GS450H
Couldn't have said it better... I have owned all three, just moved into the E55 realm. My wife still has the GS and the quality is ridiculously solid – haven’t had a hiccup since the purchase. For shear fun and clutch action the M5 is probably the best machine in the world – had some minor maintenance issues, dealer took care of it. The E55 is probably the most amazing sedan on the planet, probably change with the new M5, but it is so smooth and it will eat almost any vehicle on the road – we’ll see where we stand on maintenance. At one point I had all three in the garage... it was hard figuring out which toy to take out
for driving: M5
for quality: GS450H
Couldn't have said it better... I have owned all three, just moved into the E55 realm. My wife still has the GS and the quality is ridiculously solid – haven’t had a hiccup since the purchase. For shear fun and clutch action the M5 is probably the best machine in the world – had some minor maintenance issues, dealer took care of it. The E55 is probably the most amazing sedan on the planet, probably change with the new M5, but it is so smooth and it will eat almost any vehicle on the road – we’ll see where we stand on maintenance. At one point I had all three in the garage... it was hard figuring out which toy to take out
05-07-05, 08:19 AM
#85
Originally Posted by chiawei
Yes electric motor has instaneous torque. But Toyota hybrid synergy drive does not mean you will have sum of all max torque available from both electrical and gasoline motor. In other word you are not going to have 500LB-FT torque available for passing. Simple as that.
Like i have said earlier, what immense torque from the electric motor?
Yes on paper it looks nice. All three motor on the RX400H has total max torque of 570 and 440HP. But what is the max output for all three motor in the hybrid system? 268HP NOT 440HP!!!!
GS450H should be slightly faster than GS430. But it will not be in the E55 nor M5 territory.
Like i have said earlier, what immense torque from the electric motor?
Yes on paper it looks nice. All three motor on the RX400H has total max torque of 570 and 440HP. But what is the max output for all three motor in the hybrid system? 268HP NOT 440HP!!!!
GS450H should be slightly faster than GS430. But it will not be in the E55 nor M5 territory.
The electric motors are rated at what 1Sick said, but it will never hit that due to the lack of battery power. Electric motors can have a limitless amount of potential... but the size of the battery is the current bottleneck. With battery size increases, the weight goes up, defeating the purpose (eventually) of having the larger battery to 'save gas'. Last I heard, they were (just for shts and giggles) working on a SC 430 hybrid w/ 4 electric motors (one on each wheel) coupled to the 3UZ (4.3L V8) . . . I heard the rumor down the grapevine, but haven't heard anything since (first time I heard was last July). I'm sure they ran into the weight issue or... maybe even space (I'm sure they just threw a huge battery in the small back seat
)Dual VVT-i, however, has allowed the maximum torque peak to be lower and stay at peak for a while... (although obviously not as advanced as Double VANOS... YET hahaha) but it won't be as useful for performance purposes in a hybrid... it will only serve as a even bigger fuel saver... too bad the engine doesn't look like it will be direct injection.
So ya... the GS 450H will NOT come close to the performance seen in the E55, but dollar for dollar it will
(Gas saver, first luxury "performance" hybrid sedan, a must-buy for tech enthusiasts =D, etc)If money were'nt an issue... I'd get the E55 (vs a GS 430)... it's nice to look at, fast, and handles "good enough". It certainly is a beautiful car!!!!! but if it were E55 vs GS 450H, then I'd have to take a second to think
05-10-05, 08:43 PM
#86
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Just saw this thread...having driven the GS430 both the GS300AWD...I opted for the 300AWD. I've owned a 2005 E55 and now have a 2004 CL55 (strange how I went down 1 model year). As for the main topic question, it's a no brainer....E55. The GS430 is too "dull" compared to the E55. As for quality, reliability, etc...do you really care if you're considering the 2 cars? Too bad the 2005 E55 doesn't come with free maintenance. I'm sure the GS will be more reliable but not nearly as exciting as some pointed out that they're not in the same "class" per say...totally different market segment targets. As for the GS450H, don't know how it will be priced but I assume in the $70Ks somewhere, and I would still get the AMG over any Lexus for the pure driving experience factor.
05-10-05, 09:10 PM
#87
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I have an '04 e55, and just picked up gs430 (glacier frost, nav, ml stereo) for the wife last night. And I am "breaking-in" the gs430, drove it for 85 miles today. So far so good. I like the nav, the ml stereo, the color, and more gs430 gadgets (have to read the manual tonite).
Will keep ypu posted!
Thanks.
Will keep ypu posted!
Thanks.
05-11-05, 11:03 AM
#88
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Originally Posted by MrAMG
I have an '04 e55, and just picked up gs430 (glacier frost, nav, ml stereo) for the wife last night. And I am "breaking-in" the gs430, drove it for 85 miles today. So far so good. I like the nav, the ml stereo, the color, and more gs430 gadgets (have to read the manual tonite).
Will keep ypu posted!
Thanks.
Will keep ypu posted!
Thanks.
I am biased slightly, I think the E55 is just incredible and I think it looks like the perfect sports sedan, I mean PERFECT, like the last gen E39 M5/540 and of course a lowered GS with bigger wheels. Good point about 450H pricing, a loaded GS 430 is 62k, hybrids will come loaded, 70k is VERY much a possibility!
And I LOVE the fact Lexus continues to go upmarket in its continuing battle with Benz/BMW instead of going downmarket chasing sales.
05-11-05, 12:00 PM
#90
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by chiawei
Speculating what?
you are the one that is claiming that GS450H's electric motor will challeng the AMG.
The truth is that the output is simply not sum of all three motors. You will not get close to 500 LB-ft total system torque out of GS450H simple as that.
All available power? Like i have said, a full throttle the max power from that system on RX400H is only 268HP not 440 HP.
Remember synergy drive does not mean you get all max power from all three motors delivered to the wheel at same time.
Like I have said, you have not proved what you claimed. There is not 500 LB-ft of torque from Lexus hyrid available at a mere 2650 RPM. This is not the case with AMG.
E55 does 0-60 in low 4 not low 5. It will probably remain a second faster in 0-60 than GS450H.
Show me where a lexus Hybrid system that develop over 500LB-Ft of torque at 2650 RPM. Otherwise your claim is simply useless in real world.
We can talk about max rating on each motor as stand alone all day. But in reality, under full throttle your max power is not sum of three motors combined. RX400H proved to be the case.
268HP vs 440 is a huge difference and blew your comment totally out of water.
you are the one that is claiming that GS450H's electric motor will challeng the AMG.
The truth is that the output is simply not sum of all three motors. You will not get close to 500 LB-ft total system torque out of GS450H simple as that.
All available power? Like i have said, a full throttle the max power from that system on RX400H is only 268HP not 440 HP.
Remember synergy drive does not mean you get all max power from all three motors delivered to the wheel at same time.
Like I have said, you have not proved what you claimed. There is not 500 LB-ft of torque from Lexus hyrid available at a mere 2650 RPM. This is not the case with AMG.
E55 does 0-60 in low 4 not low 5. It will probably remain a second faster in 0-60 than GS450H.
Show me where a lexus Hybrid system that develop over 500LB-Ft of torque at 2650 RPM. Otherwise your claim is simply useless in real world.
We can talk about max rating on each motor as stand alone all day. But in reality, under full throttle your max power is not sum of three motors combined. RX400H proved to be the case.
268HP vs 440 is a huge difference and blew your comment totally out of water.
Just like more cylinders work in harmony to produce additional force, engines and electric motors working in synchronicity should produce more HP. In short, the sum of HP, I believe, should be the formula for quantifying total HP output.
In many applications, engine builders will bolt two 6 cylinder engines together to produce double the HP & Torque. Why would this be different?