MrAMG

Thanks! I have read several of your posts at the mb forum, and I must say you've earned my respect for you!

Now it's time to plan howt to mod the gs430, with the guidance of this forum.

Tony

How is the 04-05 E55 for reliability and to use as a daily driver?

I have been lurking on the E55 owners forums and alot of the guys there are jumping ship when the new M5 comes out. They say the E55 will beat the M5 off the line but gets passed when going 80-150mph.

Dammit I wished Lexus would have a AMG/ M division so they can compete with the Germans.

E55_POWER

I wouldn't go as far as saying "jumping ships" per say...maybe chasing more excitement perhaps.

The E55 is a great daily driver, pass just about everything out there when needed. Reliability wise, I have not hear of anything major but the stupid brake system recall ( I noticed Lexus had drive by wire type of system in the new GS4, HUGE MISTAKE).

I had the GS430 all day today since my GS3AWD ws getting an alignment done. Power is stronger obviously than the 300, the suspension seemed much stiffer as well and the handling was very good as well in the Sport setting. The brakes were horrible, worse than the E class drive by wire ( what was Lexus thinking?) The engine, I'm not a huge fan of it, Max torque seemed to come at around mid 4K RPM (I guess I got too used the MB 55K motor). The GS430 was priced in the $60s I was told, which I thought was a bit "strong" for the GS. The cooling seats actually worked!! The MB ones suck and so do the Audi ones...have not experienced BMW ones.

My advise, go drive an E55 and I think it will speak for itself...oh the bluetooth in teh GS is a cool feature you won't get in the E, nor touch screen Nav, but in the MB you can change destinations as you are moving (I hate that you can't do that in the Lexus). Features wise, GS all the way, excitement E without any doubt.

chiawei

There are a couple of E55 owners that is jumping ship to the M when it arrives.

So far in stock form, it appears that M5 will beat E55 in both off the line and top end. But no one will know for sure when the US M5 arrives in november (when 1st US car will be deliver to the customer- including moi ).

As far as realiability goes, I had my share of issues (my was not used as daily driver, and has about 4500 miles since 10/03). (problems with electronics, and airmatic). i know a lot of E55 owners uses it as daily driver and has relative trouble free. But you do have share of owners that has issues with their car. Reliability is not a strong point for recent mercedes. Personally my service record on the 4 mercedes that I have now is about thick as a big textbook.

As far as GS430 brake feels worse than E55 brakes, I will totally disagree with that. Prior to reprogrammin done by my dealer on the E55, my brake response on the E55 is far worse than GS430.

I know C&D commented on how touchy GS430 brake by wire is. If C&D think that was bad, my E55 original setting from factory was worse. If i tab the brake too light, there is no brake. If i just tab it a little, I get almost maximum brake being applied. This is not saying that E55 brakes is bad. It's just SBC feels totally unlinear and far worse than what Lexus did with GS430.

If fact, when I was driving the GS, i find the brake although a little touchy, it's not as bad as any W211 I have driven and owned (I have 2 W211- 04 E500, 04 E55).

I am not going to be a snob and tell you how mightly perfect E55 is like typical E55 owners. I am telling it like how i feel. E55 is a great highway cruiser, with excellent power. It handles and brakes quiet nice. But the steering feel and brake pedal response are quiet poor and unlinear. In fact, GS430's brake and steering feedback is superior than W211.

GS430 is more than a clone of W211. I have made the post on mbworld.org on my feedback on GS. GS is a more involved version of W211 (driver actually has better feedback in driving the car than W211). However, i really don't think either W211/GS comes close to what E60/M offered in driver involvement. (That's why I took delivery of 06 M45 last week to replace my soon to depart E500 as daily beater).

To me, E55 is just a soft car with excellent power. Nothing more.

chiawei

PLEASE LEARN TO READ.

I SAID IT CLEARLY. THE MAX POWER OF LEXUS HYBRID SYSTEM IS NOT SUM OF ALL MAX POWER GENERATED BY ALL THREE MOTORS.

YOU OBVIOUSLY HAS NOT LEARNED HOW TOYOTA HYBRID SYSTEM WORKS. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE WILL ALL THREE MOTOR BE OPERATING AT MAX POWER IN THE SYSTEM.
BECAUSE THAT NOT HOW HYBRID SYSTEM WORKS.

I HAVE ALREADY GIVEN YOU PERFECT EXAMPLE FROM RX400H. The sum of all three motor's max HP rating is 440HP and 570 LB-ft of torque. BUT THE MAX POWER FOR ALL THREE IN THE HYBRID SYSTEM IS 268hp AND ABOUT 300lb-FT.

EVEN IF YOU HAVE TWO GASOLINE POWERED ENGINE IN A SERIES, THE MAX SYSTEM HP IS NOT SIMPLY SUM OF TWO ENGINE MAX POWER.
For example, if engine A is tune to have 200HP@5000 RPM, engine B is tuned to have max 200HP @7000 RPM. At 5000 RPM, the system power is not going to be 400HP ( in this case, engine A would be at max, while Engine B has not yet reached peak output). At 7,000 RPM, it could be engine A is already falling off from the power peak and engine B has just reached its peak).


THE FACT IS THAT RX400H MAX SYSTEM POWER PER OFFICIAL LEXUS RELEASE IS 268HP WITH TORQUE IN 300LB-FT RANGE NOT PER YOUR CLAIM OF 440HP AND 570 LB-FT.

THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE WRONG.

BTW YOU ARE INDEED CLAIMING THAT GS450H WILL GIVE E55 A RUN FOR IT'S MONEY. YOU SAID IT. SO DON'T BACK AWAY FROM IT.

The reality is that, GS450H will be faster than GS430, but it will never come close to M5/E55 terriroty.

Maybe if Lexus decided to come out with a 500 HP gas engine, or build a hyrbid system using its V8 instead of using the 3.5 V6, that it can come close to the M5/E55 territory.

But with current V6+electric motor to expect it to be a 4 second car, it asking way too much.

Raptor.1

I find it interesting that people are talking about the E55 and the GS 430 in the same breath. I guess that says a lot about Lexus in that that it is being compared to the top of the line MB sedan. Lexus is not trying to be the fastest sedan with the GS. "If they wanted to do that they could easily." Lexus is trying to be the best for the mainstream market which is exactly what they are.

Everyone here is talking about speed and performance, the AMG has almost 200 more HP than the GS. Is it me or is the obvious not enough. I am also surprised that the GS modders haven't jumped in here. I had a 2001 GS 430 that I decided to modify, but for me I wanted to do it without making any sacrifices to the cars feel. For about $3500 I did some minor modifications to the engine increasing the HP to about 380-390 making it a 4.8 sec car to sixty. "All still covered under warranty by Lexus.” In the four years I owned it I didn’t experience one single peep of a problem while I put 85 K miles on it. The one sacrifice I did make was the engines silence; it became an animal in hiding and was only noticeable when I hit the gas. I already have on order one of the modifications for my 06 that I had on my 01. "No engine noise with this one though." There are kits out there for the 2GS that you could pay 10K for and have a twin turbo system pushing more than 700HP. I would take on an AMG with that kind of power any day and still have 20 K in my pocket to spend. Even with the modifications I did there wasn’t anything I couldn’t take on and 99.9% of the time WIN. People say Lexus doesn’t have a soul; this is how you give it one……

Simply put most of the people that buy an AMG will hardly ever experience its potential. They buy it for status separating them selves from the rest of the pack, owning something that other just can’t afford. The GS represents a fine line where people make or break the decision to buy a car of this caliber. It offers everything the high end exotics can do “and more” while at the same time setting the bar for luxury and comfort for the mainstream.

Also I have seen some posts here that are talking about the pricing of the GS in the 60K + range. Anyone who pays more than 58 K is on crack. LOL I got my 06 GS 430 with everything under the sun at 56 K, and I know there are better deals than that.

Notice I didn’t mention the BMW here~

natnut

Out of curiosity, why did you sell your E55? Also, shouldn't your nick be CL55 POWER?

E55_POWER

I got T-Boned in my E55 after 2 months of ownership.

Chiawei, I agree with you that the E55 brakes were pretty "****ty" in the earlier models...perhaps my 05 had the "bugs" worked out of it?

The new GS430 brakes really are horrible, whether better or worse than W211, actually pretty irrelevent but I was just surprised as to why Lexus changed a "successful formula". The GS430, while great car, yes should not be in the same sentence as E55 as someone here pointed out.

I dont know what mods for only $3500 will give a GS 80 HP unless there was an inexpensive blower. I know you won't acheive those numbers with just bolt on, ie headers, intake, exhaust. The SRT TT was very impressive.

Yes, BMW, OWNZ when it comes to driving excitement and I will never argue that (in sedan form that is...since there is Porsche out there).

I have a GS300 AWD and LOVE it because I bought it for what it can do, knowing that it's not going to be a drag car...for that I would drive my CL55 with Kleemann K2 (still a ****ty handling car).

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

So can ya share what you did? Inquiring minds want to know. I'm assuming SRT intake and some kind of exhaust - but even most optimistically (drinking SRT's Koolaid and claims about exhausts) you might get 40hp at the crank.

chiawei

Wrong on so many aspect.

There are plenty of AMG owners out there that do track and mod their cars. Although not as hard core as BMW owners. I actually see much less GS owners track and mod their cars.

I do not see a $3500 kit for a GS430.

There are kits available with the 2nd generation GS300 (since it is based on the supra's in-line 6). You can easily tune 1000 HP out of it. But what is the point if the chassis, brakes, and rest of the car can't match the power.

Soul does not equal puting a blower kit and get as much HP you can get and drag in straight line.

BMW does not get its soul by outgunning everyone in straightline. Simply not the point.

E55 is very easily to mod to push more HP than you can say. This is bascially the same block that powered SLR. And with simple chip/pulley upgrade it could easily push over 600HP to the wheel.

Use your famous word, "simply put" I don't think majority of lexus owners would apporach the potential of their car as well. Heck, judging from response of this forum is more than clear indication of lack of mechanical knowledge.

GS offering everything an exotic can do? I really got to laugh at this. Until toyota can make a true M5/E55 competitor, this is a joke that I will continue to laugh.

Let me give you another analogy, I can get a cheap civic HB (for couple grand), and tune to crap out of it, still would cream your modded GS430 and pocket $30k to $40k in difference. Does that make Civic a car with a soul? Your point is totally pointless.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

chiawei,

While I agree technically with pretty much every point you made, I do ask you to please tone down the yelling and confrontational tone of your message. There is no need for that in this thread (or forum) to get your points across..

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

More confrontational language that is not needed. Make your points and keep this thread friendly please.

chiawei

A 11 PSI SRT TT kit at $35k only gave the GS around 430HP to the wheel. Yes, I really believe that a $3500 kit can produce 80HP gain using simple bolt on.

$35k for a kit and add $56k for the car. Hmm. that's 91k. So much for being a bargain. No to mention that there are addition mods to be done to the brakes, chassis, and suspension.

Adding it all up, it costs more than a E55. E55 with 10k in mod, will easily push over 600 on the wheels. So at 100k of a mod E55, and 100k modded GS400/430. Which one is better buy is more than obvious.

looknow12

Firstly, three motors don't drive the RX. One electric motor is reserved for reclaiming power during braking to charge the battery. It is also used to start the gas engine and for controlling some drivetrain linkage (cannot remember what).

Regarding adding all available power source up to determine the total power. It is done all day long. Read the examples I've provided, I'm confident with my statements on that topic.

Yes, I did state the GS450 might give the 55 a run for its money at certain acceleration points. I stated this because I've driven the RX400 and know how fast it really is at high speeds. The RX400 might not be a rocket during hole shots, but man is it fast when on the highway. Acceleration from 50-70, 60-80, 70-even 90 is so darn fast, I'd swear it gives many sport cars a run for their money (at those speeds). The GS450H will be more geared towards performance, I truly believe that it will be extremely fast during high speed accelerations if the RX400h is just a slight indication. I don't however believe it will be a rocket during hole shots.

That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. By the way, when I said I never made any specific claims I was responded to your previous comments regarding my comments which at the time I believe did not include your most recent quote (I believe it will give the 55 a run for its money). Sounds like a miscommunication, I don't mind taking the blame for that.

BTW, I've driven the SL55 (about 500 miles of driving) and I'm well aware of the raw power this kind of motor has. I don't think anyone here is trying to take anything away from AMG.

looknow12

I stated if the motors were in synch meaning that could deliver the same power at the same RPM.

When did I say the RX400 would have 440 HP?

No, what I said is it might give the 55 a run for it's money at certain speed accelerations. We both don't know the answer yet so I used the word might. I also mainly stated not to discount the torque of raw motors.

I would never be so pompous to think I knew the answers to a question without all the pieces to the puzzle.