SCWells72

Of course, C&D evaluated a 530i while R&T evaluated a 545i. I agree that a 530i would score substantially below a GS430 or M45 Sport whereas a 545i gives them much more of a run for the money...literally.

flipside909

That's why I don't really like C&D writers. They are usually biased and usually put the right cars but w/the wrong models for their comparisons. Their assessment numbers never add up to the winner they choose. I do however like their photos.

mooretorque

C&D usually (and this review was no exception) picks price points because that's how they feel many buyers will shop. They freely admitted the 530 was out of its league in powerland but the 545 significantly more change and well beyond their price point (they have been known to stretch but this would have been WAY more than a stretch).

Personally, I enjoy C&D more because of their irreverence; R&T writes like everyone is tweed capped and smoking a pipe. Plus R&T's now not new wierd size bugs me.

But I take all the monthlies (and Autoweek) except MotorTrundle so I guess I don't dislike the thing too much.

yaro1

Nice win Infiniti.

HOWEVER

I really can't credit these magazines with influencing my purchase decission (or really credit them at all). These guys are just gasoline chugging "bang for the buck" monsters.

PROOF 1: About 90% (87%) of their scoring is having to do with either speed, handling, price, or the like.

R&T breakup of score
TOTAL: ---------------------------------------600
non-driving points(style/comfort):-----80 //Ride, styling, ergonomics,room (hehe, commenting on non Java stuff is fun too[inside joke])
Driving related points:--------------------320 //Everything else
Price points:---------------------------------200 // ARE YOU KIDDING? 200 points for price

PROOF 2: The new Ford mustang was on EVERY COVER OF EVERY MAGAZINE. The only reason why is because it is not very expensive and fast. Case in point.

Geez.

When they start giving out points for leather quality and reliability, then I will start listening. Yes, I do know they are "enthusiast's" magazines, but that doesn't mean all enthusiasts are speed hungry like them.

I guess that is why I am a Lexus man . I just value so much more than speed when it comes to cars. I dunno, I guess I better get back to my popular mechanics instead.

LS4fun

Very subjective.....

Shogun

Anytime someone reviews a car - it's always going to be "subjective".

Case in point, and as mentioned, is the article covering the subjectives that are important to you?

The car magazines (and yes, I read all of them as well) cover - well, cars. Aside from focusing on leather quality they write about facts; i.e. 0-60, handling, 1/4mile, etc., which is LESS SUBJECTIVE than focusing on leather, perceived quality, etc.

The GS isn't knocking the ball outta of the park in these reviews due to it's engine and handling. Apples to apples the GS has lost it's performance edge in favor of greater luxury (as opposed to '98 when it Lexus made a radical move to focus on performance).

IMO, the car magazines are doing a great job of reviewing cars based on "facts" - the problem is that the new GS isn't stacking very well to the competition based on these facts.

Now, do a review on quality, maintenance, ownership satisfaction, etc. and you might have a very different story - BUT then again THAT STORY would be MUCH MORE SUBJECTIVE than reviews that cover measured events for acceleration, braking and handling.

Eric

SC400-V8

iTrader: (1)

0.5 seconds 0-60 is a very long time. If we raced and my car was about .5 seconds faster 0-60 it would feel like a near eternity and a lot more than just a quarter-car length.

I personally believe luxury sports cars will top out at about 5 seconds, i mean, that is rediculously fast. I find my old SC400 is actually still pretty darned quick, and it dates back to the early 90s.

LexFather

I finally read the article and if you read it, they state first and foremost the GS is not the loser, just not the sportiest of the bunch and that is what they were looking for. They really liked the car and didn't have much negative to say about it.It was 60k tested. It simply was not the sportiest in its group, which in this test is a drawback. They did say its the sportiest Lexus.
The 5 was 62k tested and they still don't like the I-drive and the interior but they did say it was still the sportiest to them. I honestly think most all magazines simply cannot see themselves DRIVING the car as its borderline hideous. B/C the E60 BMW has gotten great driving reviews but doesn't win comparos anymore.
The M45 sport was 50k loaded, no options. They loved the pricepoint, the driving and acceleration. It won pretty much every performance category which in this test, means the most. The commentated the exterior could be confused with an Altima or G35, very understated (good or a bad thing).

To sum it up the M45 won but there is clearly no bad car in this group.

So really, lets not get all upset, the M45 is the sportiest of the bunch at 10/10ths. Thing is most buyers in this market barely drive at 7/10ths and probably don't read nor subscribe to these mags.

Gojirra99

There's not too much subjectivity in quality/maintainence/problems, they are real & mostly quantifiable.
On the other hand, there can be a lot of subjectivity in handling characteristics, steering feel & ride quality (comfort vs. sporty, a good balance between the 2, or heavy bias towards either end etc.) . . .

jrock65

I agree with you. If you're into the speed thing, half a second can seem like a long time.

The 545i Auto in this test got 5.2s. So the 360hp 550i will have a good chance of breaking the 5 second mark. That's just ridiculously fast for a non specialty car (AMG, M, RS/S, V-spec, SRT).

Of course, the 550i will have a price tag to match its speed.

flipside909

Well said. The average buyer for these cars are not in the race to the nearest Target or Walmart to slalom through shopping carts or beat the mom in the minvan for the nearest parking spot. I bet more than 75% of the buyers in this segment will never explore the full extent of performance of their vehicle.

KKelly

With regard to a 545 6 speed that is simply not true. Most of those cars are driven pretty hard and, unlike these other brands, you will actually see one at a driving school every once in a while. I think that may happen with the M45 as the new Infiniti buyer is much more sport oriented than in the past and I have seen quite a few G35's at the track in the last two years.
The non-sporty drivers usually will just buy the 530i. The 540i has never been a huge seller for BMW. Still not sure why Lexus didn't give a little boost to the GS430--spending too much on F1?

speedflex

It's true. The GS is a superb machine. Anyone who owns one should feel mighty special. It is probably the best embodiment of the Lexus philosophy of any product the company has made.

What R&T liked about the M goes beyond mere ultimate performance. I think what won the day for the M is that it so seamlessly walked the tightrope between the luxury and smoothness of the GS and the driving edge of the Bimmer. As they said, "It deftly splits the difference between the softer-focused Lexus and the harder-edged BMW, stealing points from each by being not only comfortable and stylish, but also fast and fun to drive." They concluded by saying "It was this consistency and its distinctive mix of luxury and performance which won out in the end".

LexFather

Hey mahn, nice to see u still hanging. You make a good point but I think most of these won't make it to the track as they are so big and heavy and most owners simply don't track them or have other cars for that purpose.

You my mahn, are the rare exception. And yes, there will be tons more BMW 5 owners at the track than M and GS COMBINED.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

You're rationalizing based on a typical Lexus buyer, who has no interest in performance. Lexus buyers don't buy for handling period except the IS300 because they don't handle. That's not their thing. But the 'average' buyer of an M45 or BMW bought it because it's either fast or handles well. Have you driven a 545i? The handling is awesome. The interior sucks but that's not why people buy them. Lexus on the other hand has so so handling but generally awesome interiors (except the current IS300 which is weak).

And you never explore to the 'full extent' unless you go to a track so that's easy to say.

Bottom line - Lexus and the other brands basically appeal to different segments. Lexus attracts customers who want reliable, conservative, luxurious and quiet transportation. There's very little 'sport' in their sport sedan - it's LUXURY-sport. BMW on the other hand is SPORT-luxury. Mercedes is often somewhere in between.