Oh oh! My fav writer, Jeremy Clarkson, reviews and writes about the 3GS 430!
05-10-05, 12:39 AM
#17
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"Driving this car is like being wrapped up in a duvet and carried from place to place by a small white cloud."
thats the only bit i liked!
other than that
he's supposed to review a GS430, not japanese culture
thats the only bit i liked!
other than that
he's supposed to review a GS430, not japanese culture
05-10-05, 05:12 AM
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I think you probably have to understand Jeremy's style to appreciate his reviews. His columns for the Sunday Times are written more as a piece of literary entertainment than a factual car review. If you flick through some of the others published on the site, you'll see all of them feature 70% of initial scene-setting, followed by just a few specifics about the car to back up his point. That's the style. We have plenty of magazines over here that measure every aspect of a vehicle's performance, so Clarkson's columns try to offer something else.
I enjoy Clarkson's pieces for his use of language, but it's rare that I agree with his conclusions. It is disappointing to read the same old "Mercedes copy" mantra, though. As someone in this thread said earlier, you can't call something a copy just because it shares some of its attributes. Why isn't the Mercedes a copy of a BMW? They both drive the rear wheels, have four doors, a roof, a steering wheel, etc...
I enjoy Clarkson's pieces for his use of language, but it's rare that I agree with his conclusions. It is disappointing to read the same old "Mercedes copy" mantra, though. As someone in this thread said earlier, you can't call something a copy just because it shares some of its attributes. Why isn't the Mercedes a copy of a BMW? They both drive the rear wheels, have four doors, a roof, a steering wheel, etc...
05-10-05, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Alex K
I think you probably have to understand Jeremy's style to appreciate his reviews. His columns for the Sunday Times are written more as a piece of literary entertainment than a factual car review. If you flick through some of the others published on the site, you'll see all of them feature 70% of initial scene-setting, followed by just a few specifics about the car to back up his point. That's the style. We have plenty of magazines over here that measure every aspect of a vehicle's performance, so Clarkson's columns try to offer something else.
I enjoy Clarkson's pieces for his use of language, but it's rare that I agree with his conclusions. It is disappointing to read the same old "Mercedes copy" mantra, though. As someone in this thread said earlier, you can't call something a copy just because it shares some of its attributes. Why isn't the Mercedes a copy of a BMW? They both drive the rear wheels, have four doors, a roof, a steering wheel, etc...
I enjoy Clarkson's pieces for his use of language, but it's rare that I agree with his conclusions. It is disappointing to read the same old "Mercedes copy" mantra, though. As someone in this thread said earlier, you can't call something a copy just because it shares some of its attributes. Why isn't the Mercedes a copy of a BMW? They both drive the rear wheels, have four doors, a roof, a steering wheel, etc...
05-10-05, 08:19 AM
#20
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Isn't the fundamental problem with the Lexus is that it's too quiet? My Lotus 7 is rude, crude and feels like a real racer at 30mph with no top or insulation and a thin piece of aluminum between you and the engine. It creaks, bangs and roars; you have to be careful putting your hand out so it doesn't burn on the exhaust pipe or scrape your knuckles on on the asphalt (been there, done that).
The Lexus is so quiet you don't realize how well it's performing. Sound has historically been part of the driving experience as it can give you a lot of indicators on how your doing, from wind noise, air being sucked into the intake, exhaust out the back, etc.
Times change and we have a new model where quiet is good and we need to train ourselves to focus on G loads and visual indicators.
I don't think the author was being racist, that's too strong a word and like one of the posters said, check out the various Japanese cars if you want performance.
The Lexus is so quiet you don't realize how well it's performing. Sound has historically been part of the driving experience as it can give you a lot of indicators on how your doing, from wind noise, air being sucked into the intake, exhaust out the back, etc.
Times change and we have a new model where quiet is good and we need to train ourselves to focus on G loads and visual indicators.
I don't think the author was being racist, that's too strong a word and like one of the posters said, check out the various Japanese cars if you want performance.
05-10-05, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by JHStrange
Isn't the fundamental problem with the Lexus is that it's too quiet? My Lotus 7 is rude, crude and feels like a real racer at 30mph with no top or insulation and a thin piece of aluminum between you and the engine. It creaks, bangs and roars; you have to be careful putting your hand out so it doesn't burn on the exhaust pipe or scrape your knuckles on on the asphalt (been there, done that).
The Lexus is so quiet you don't realize how well it's performing. Sound has historically been part of the driving experience as it can give you a lot of indicators on how your doing, from wind noise, air being sucked into the intake, exhaust out the back, etc.
Times change and we have a new model where quiet is good and we need to train ourselves to focus on G loads and visual indicators.
I don't think the author was being racist, that's too strong a word and like one of the posters said, check out the various Japanese cars if you want performance.
The Lexus is so quiet you don't realize how well it's performing. Sound has historically been part of the driving experience as it can give you a lot of indicators on how your doing, from wind noise, air being sucked into the intake, exhaust out the back, etc.
Times change and we have a new model where quiet is good and we need to train ourselves to focus on G loads and visual indicators.
I don't think the author was being racist, that's too strong a word and like one of the posters said, check out the various Japanese cars if you want performance.
05-10-05, 09:00 AM
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Don`t you guys take this review seriously. Jeremy Clarkson is an SL-owner, and he is probably bought and payed by Merc. He also slaughtered the SC430 some year`s ago.
****ing moron
****ing moron
05-10-05, 09:13 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
A 360 didn't do it for you? I'm shocked. Why were you laughing in one? Because it's not a Lexus interior? I've been in one and was in awe of the steering, brakes, engine sound, shifting, power, handling, you name it. The care is awesome.
Now a Rolex I agree is nothing special, although it is well made. Watches though really don't have the variability in function that cars do - and beyond basic functions watches are just jewelry (in my mind mostly a waste of money).
So a Porsche did nothing for you either? I guess you're not into handling.
Now a Rolex I agree is nothing special, although it is well made. Watches though really don't have the variability in function that cars do - and beyond basic functions watches are just jewelry (in my mind mostly a waste of money).
So a Porsche did nothing for you either? I guess you're not into handling.
Don't get me wrong 360 might cut for someone but not for me. It is just not what I am looking for in a car no matter the price. I expect complete package and that's why I think Bentley GT is far better car than F360. Although I didn't drive 360 but I doubt it would change my mind. For example, I simply can't get over that stereo that looks and feels like Blaupunkt from my dad's MB 190 twelve years ago. Things like that turn me off so quiclky but that is just me. Again not my cup of tea but maybe yours.
05-10-05, 09:26 AM
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As much as I love the 3GS, I have to defend Mr. Clarkson a little bit for his "review" wrapped in a metaphorical binge. I thought he was very cleverly pointing out how differing cultures drive differing values of automotive quality, much as it drives differing values of esthetic quality. His 11 year old exchange student (made up I'm sure. No culture on earth would ever allow Mr. Clarkson to host an 11 year old girl, save the Koreans, perhaps, who allowed Hyundais to be) was a clever metaphor of his perception of Japanese automotive evolution. They are small, quite and removed, prone to use clever and undecipherable electronic devices, unused to speed or motion, with no concept of western controls or tastes.
In the end, though, it was just a clever and very humorous defense of his own inability to evolve and accept that something from somewhere else could be better because it does it differently. Claiming that Japanese cars have no "soul" is purely ignorance of the larger world, like claiming another religion has no standing because it isn't yours (now THERE'S a can of worms!). I think automotive "soul" to traditional western sports car enthusiasts is mostly comprised of noise, RPM, oversteer, and rolling phallic symbols. It involves history, racing success and dues paying. It seems to be something like musical "soul", very difficult to describe but you damn well know you saw it in a juke joint in Mississippi. He seems to associate Japanese automotive product with robotic machinery and a disembodied voice.
To me, calling the 3GS a "Mercedes Clone" is disingenuous. Lexus gets compared to Mercedes because Mercedes plowed the ground for luxury cars. By that standard, every luxury car ever to be built will be a Mercedes clone. Lexus has simply improved the luxury standard by introducing reliability and technology. Mercedes and Lexus seem to approach the high-end automotive gene pool from the luxury end (as if mom were Sophia Loren) and BMW from the performance end (mom would be,um, Paris Hilton) and they all end up splashing around together somewhere in the middle. Thank goodness they're all different, or what would be the use of having them?
So Mr. Clarkson is funny and fun to read, but all he really manages to do is clarify his narrow-mindedness. Personally I'm thankful we get to experience differences in automotive excellence. I loved to drive my C5 because it turned the heads of the girls who would look at my Playboy with me, and I loved to drive my GS300 because it turned the heads of the girls who would read John Fowles with me.
In the end, though, it was just a clever and very humorous defense of his own inability to evolve and accept that something from somewhere else could be better because it does it differently. Claiming that Japanese cars have no "soul" is purely ignorance of the larger world, like claiming another religion has no standing because it isn't yours (now THERE'S a can of worms!). I think automotive "soul" to traditional western sports car enthusiasts is mostly comprised of noise, RPM, oversteer, and rolling phallic symbols. It involves history, racing success and dues paying. It seems to be something like musical "soul", very difficult to describe but you damn well know you saw it in a juke joint in Mississippi. He seems to associate Japanese automotive product with robotic machinery and a disembodied voice.
To me, calling the 3GS a "Mercedes Clone" is disingenuous. Lexus gets compared to Mercedes because Mercedes plowed the ground for luxury cars. By that standard, every luxury car ever to be built will be a Mercedes clone. Lexus has simply improved the luxury standard by introducing reliability and technology. Mercedes and Lexus seem to approach the high-end automotive gene pool from the luxury end (as if mom were Sophia Loren) and BMW from the performance end (mom would be,um, Paris Hilton) and they all end up splashing around together somewhere in the middle. Thank goodness they're all different, or what would be the use of having them?
So Mr. Clarkson is funny and fun to read, but all he really manages to do is clarify his narrow-mindedness. Personally I'm thankful we get to experience differences in automotive excellence. I loved to drive my C5 because it turned the heads of the girls who would look at my Playboy with me, and I loved to drive my GS300 because it turned the heads of the girls who would read John Fowles with me.
05-10-05, 09:34 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by teutonictr
Truth be told, the car bored him to death - big deal. He has his SL65 and Ford GT to keep him awake when he is driving. I have two cars for myself: a Boxster S and a MB E500. The Boxster S is for fun driving, and occassional track use. The E500 is for freeway cruising and listening to tunes, with some occassional passing on the freeway. I don't want the same car in my E500 that I have in my Porsche, as I like having the choice, and the cars serve entirely different purposes. One is for tactile, the other is for isolation. He doesn't like isolation in a car, pure and simple.
I've always thought of the LS400/LS430 as REALLY BORING, but very refined cars. I drove a friend's LS400 the other day and could not believe how light the steering is - felt lighter than an old Buick. But if what you primarily want is peace and quiet while driving or you drive in traffic or on long boring highway rides most of the time, or shlep other people around (like a realtor for example) the LS is the way to go. Pretty soon the LS will do ALL THE DRIVING TOO.
But if you're a car enthusiast, enjoy twisty roads, visceral mechanical feelings and sounds, this is the LAST car for you. Same goes with the new GS. It looks like the new IS may be the only 'fun' car in the Lexus line-up.
05-10-05, 09:46 AM
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Classic article........this stuff makes me laugh. This is the kind of writer who enjoys reading his own articles while he's sitting in the Mercedes repair lounge, eagerly awaiting a diagnosis for a problem they can't seem to resolve.
Typical nonsense. Halfway through the article we come to the subject of automobile? How does that work?
Some people just cannot stand change, and the truth of it is, all told by his article, that the luxury sports sedan market has changed forever, and will continue to change with the Japanese making the extra effort to provide a seamless luxury sedan, that will ultimately have no rival when all is said and done. Are they there yet? I think not, but they will be soon.
Typical nonsense. Halfway through the article we come to the subject of automobile? How does that work?
Some people just cannot stand change, and the truth of it is, all told by his article, that the luxury sports sedan market has changed forever, and will continue to change with the Japanese making the extra effort to provide a seamless luxury sedan, that will ultimately have no rival when all is said and done. Are they there yet? I think not, but they will be soon.
05-12-05, 03:33 PM
#30
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
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Problems? Well, apart from the wood trim you have to dig deep to find anything tangible. The boot’s an awkward shape, I suppose, and there isn’t quite as much space in the back as you might expect. But neither of these things is a good enough reason for buying something else. As a long-distance cruiser this car is quite simply outstanding. Better than a Gulfstream V, and maybe even a rival for teleporting.
Unfortunately, I didn’t like it at all, partly because it’s about as attractive as a sponsored town centre roundabout and partly because Lexuses these days are driven by people who play golf, or people who like to slap their hos and drive around at night shooting at business rivals with submachineguns. Gangstas? Golfers? I don’t want to look like either.
Problems? Well, apart from the wood trim you have to dig deep to find anything tangible. The boot’s an awkward shape, I suppose, and there isn’t quite as much space in the back as you might expect. But neither of these things is a good enough reason for buying something else. As a long-distance cruiser this car is quite simply outstanding. Better than a Gulfstream V, and maybe even a rival for teleporting.
Unfortunately, I didn’t like it at all, partly because it’s about as attractive as a sponsored town centre roundabout and partly because Lexuses these days are driven by people who play golf, or people who like to slap their hos and drive around at night shooting at business rivals with submachineguns. Gangstas? Golfers? I don’t want to look like either.
I have no idea what he's talking about in the 2nd part?
I don't know any pro? golfers who drive Lexus (like I care), but what in the world is he talking about pimps/people driving lexus who slap their hos ???
Japanese gangstars???