wifey & i looked at"my"gs300 dissappoint
05-17-05, 04:13 PM
#61
Originally Posted by chuckb
an M6 would sure match your current car collection.......... 
what's the word on how these run?
what's the word on how these run?
Yes, it is more expansive than M5 (due to its carbon fiber roof, and other upgrades in chassis).
As far as original topic goes. I think M45 is more of a car than GS430 (after living with my new M45 Sports for more than a week).
The M45 costs a little bit less with a far more willing chassis, steering, and power. This is a poor man's BMW 545i with better interior/electronics and a little off on the steering response (the handling actually is about even with 545i Sport, with exception of a little more bodyroll on the M45).
GS430 is not aiming at BMW crowd. It's aimed more toward E (w211 crowd).
For $60k large, M45 gets my money simply it is a blast to drive. While the GS430 handles well when compare to the W211 E-class. It's simply not sporty enough.
I would have bought another BMW had the M5 been delayed. Since I am getting my M5 in november this year, I saw no need to pick up a 545i for daily beater.
The GS430 is not a driver's car. Nothing wrong with this. No car is meant to satisfy all spectrum of potential customers.
05-17-05, 04:36 PM
#62
Lexus Connoisseur
Why do I get a sense the same people always make these "discussions" into an my Inifniti M45 is better than your Lexus GS430. It's getting played out and very old...just like the "War on Terror". 
05-17-05, 04:54 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by flipside909
Why do I get a sense the same people always make these "discussions" into an my Inifniti M45 is better than your Lexus GS430. It's getting played out and very old...just like the "War on Terror".
Lexus owners usually are not concerned with car does 0-60 less than 1/2 a second. Clearly, since the GS is meeting sales expectations. That should say A LOT about the car, since it has the lowest horsepower ratings. But it does have a 6 speed auto and is near or the lowest weight in class. That is TOTAL engineering, not Bugattti pointless Verynon engineering i.e more power, more power, it solves everything.
It seems every other thread (and we are MUCH more diverse here with owners of multiple brands and non-lexus than other forums) people want to continue to prove that the GS is somehow inferior as a car b/c it doesn't do the slalom at 200mph. People want to bash the GS b/c it doesn't do 0-60 in 3 seconds flat. We have acknowledged and its a fact, the GS is not as sporty or as fast as 1 or 2 but it IS sportier or faster than the rest.
Then, you have others and myself making the same points and facts over and over again and it is tiring.
What will people say when the GS 450h debuts next spring. There is NO competition for it. There is no one close to offering a luxury hybrid. This car will offer more performance and more economy intergrated seamlessly. Now THAT is progress.
What will people say when the GS 350 and GS 460 come? Then what?
And when the aftermarket catches up with this car, well, you've seen the 2GS forum, 1GS forum and other forums. Some Clublexus members do not play around.
In 5 years, lets see how the cars are holding up and sales. I see rattle threads already.........
05-17-05, 04:54 PM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by chiawei
Base is probably about $92k to $95k. With options you are looking at $100k.
Yes, it is more expansive than M5 (due to its carbon fiber roof, and other upgrades in chassis).
As far as original topic goes. I think M45 is more of a car than GS430 (after living with my new M45 Sports for more than a week).
The M45 costs a little bit less with a far more willing chassis, steering, and power. This is a poor man's BMW 545i with better interior/electronics and a little off on the steering response (the handling actually is about even with 545i Sport, with exception of a little more bodyroll on the M45).
GS430 is not aiming at BMW crowd. It's aimed more toward E (w211 crowd).
For $60k large, M45 gets my money simply it is a blast to drive. While the GS430 handles well when compare to the W211 E-class. It's simply not sporty enough.
I would have bought another BMW had the M5 been delayed. Since I am getting my M5 in november this year, I saw no need to pick up a 545i for daily beater.
The GS430 is not a driver's car. Nothing wrong with this. No car is meant to satisfy all spectrum of potential customers.
Yes, it is more expansive than M5 (due to its carbon fiber roof, and other upgrades in chassis).
As far as original topic goes. I think M45 is more of a car than GS430 (after living with my new M45 Sports for more than a week).
The M45 costs a little bit less with a far more willing chassis, steering, and power. This is a poor man's BMW 545i with better interior/electronics and a little off on the steering response (the handling actually is about even with 545i Sport, with exception of a little more bodyroll on the M45).
GS430 is not aiming at BMW crowd. It's aimed more toward E (w211 crowd).
For $60k large, M45 gets my money simply it is a blast to drive. While the GS430 handles well when compare to the W211 E-class. It's simply not sporty enough.
I would have bought another BMW had the M5 been delayed. Since I am getting my M5 in november this year, I saw no need to pick up a 545i for daily beater.
The GS430 is not a driver's car. Nothing wrong with this. No car is meant to satisfy all spectrum of potential customers.
Sir, Lexus execs stated themselves the GS is aimed at BMW (I am looking for the link). THe GS is a drivers car, just not as much as the 545 and M35/45. Why is it so hard for people to believe Lexus can make an interesting car? Looking around here, people are modding thier cars ALREADY and looking for modification parts to make is look/handle even better. Sounds like the BMW market to me.
05-17-05, 05:21 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Sir, Lexus execs stated themselves the GS is aimed at BMW (I am looking for the link). THe GS is a drivers car, just not as much as the 545 and M35/45. Why is it so hard for people to believe Lexus can make an interesting car? Looking around here, people are modding thier cars ALREADY and looking for modification parts to make is look/handle even better. Sounds like the BMW market to me.
SICK, I know it's because of your passion for Lexus, but I think you're taking one person's personal opinion about a car way too personally. It's not an attack on you. You don't have to defend the entire Lexus name. Believe me, most of the people here are on your side! It's Club LEXUS, not Club Anti LEXUS. Please let the man have his opinion, state yours, and move on. I've seen too many of your threads, where you take it as your personal mission to win someone over to the Dark Side. You're like a Lexus missionary or something. If it makes you feel better...I like the 3GS
05-17-05, 05:22 PM
#66
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Sir, Lexus execs stated themselves the GS is aimed at BMW (I am looking for the link). THe GS is a drivers car, just not as much as the 545 and M35/45. Why is it so hard for people to believe Lexus can make an interesting car? Looking around here, people are modding thier cars ALREADY and looking for modification parts to make is look/handle even better. Sounds like the BMW market to me.
I did drove GS430 for a while before getting the M45. It's just not a fun car to drive (although better than the W211). I am not the only one stating this. Pretty much everywhere you look, everyone is stating the same thing (except people on this forum accept the fact).
You said it best. Just not as much as 545i, M35/45. I have nothing against lexus/toyota. they do make great car with excellent quality. Not all of their cars are boring. But the GS is simply not as fun to drive as M and E60. If lexus seriously wanted to pick off BMW customers from BMW's grasp, it must do a better job than the current GS. The GS does an excellent job in beating the W211 senseless, but it missed the mark completely on the E60.
Modding their cars does not make this a BMW market audience. There is only so much you can do to modified the car. Both the M/E60 left factory with sportier design, and potential benefit to mod is better than GS.
Give you a best example. the E60 as active roll stablization, the M has active rear steer. Both no matter how much you can mod the GS, you simply don't have it.
I also don't understand the purpose of a performance hybrid. Why would a performance car owner would care about getting better gas mileage? Do you think a BMW M owner or AMG owner really cares about spending $$$$ on gas? The answer is probably a resounding no.
So what is with GS350/GS460. The competition is not standing around either. Last time I check, MB has new V8 due next year (V6 is already out). BMW new L6 is out and new V8 is due shortly. M already has powerful V6 and V8. GS is a step behind already.
I have nothing against Toyota/Lexus. I still would buy one for my family needs (like my van). But I am not going to be like a homer and believe that the new GS is a drivers car, when it is not the case.
The new GS is a somewhat of a dissappointment to me given the fact that lexus proclaimed to be a 5 series fighter. But it simply underwhelms in fun factor.
I hope that the new IS would be a better driver car. The old one actually was a very good driver's car compared to the E46. I just hope that lexus does not screw up the IS.
05-17-05, 05:26 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by LT. LEX
SICK, I know it's because of your passion for Lexus, but I think you're taking one person's personal opinion about a car way too personally. It's not an attack on you. You don't have to defend the entire Lexus name. Believe me, most of the people here are on your side! It's Club LEXUS, not Club Anti LEXUS. Please let the man have his opinion, state yours, and move on. I've seen too many of your threads, where you take it as your personal mission to win someone over to the Dark Side. You're like a Lexus missionary or something. If it makes you feel better...I like the 3GS
and winner buys the beer. Okay, me= step back, go see my girlfriend, let her make me feel better, thanks for the honesty.
05-17-05, 05:29 PM
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by chiawei
I don't think they did a good job in imitating BMW than what Nissan did.
I did drove GS430 for a while before getting the M45. It's just not a fun car to drive (although better than the W211). I am not the only one stating this. Pretty much everywhere you look, everyone is stating the same thing (except people on this forum accept the fact).
You said it best. Just not as much as 545i, M35/45. I have nothing against lexus/toyota. they do make great car with excellent quality. Not all of their cars are boring. But the GS is simply not as fun to drive as M and E60. If lexus seriously wanted to pick off BMW customers from BMW's grasp, it must do a better job than the current GS. The GS does an excellent job in beating the W211 senseless, but it missed the mark completely on the E60.
Modding their cars does not make this a BMW market audience. There is only so much you can do to modified the car. Both the M/E60 left factory with sportier design, and potential benefit to mod is better than GS.
Give you a best example. the E60 as active roll stablization, the M has active rear steer. Both no matter how much you can mod the GS, you simply don't have it.
I also don't understand the purpose of a performance hybrid. Why would a performance car owner would care about getting better gas mileage? Do you think a BMW M owner or AMG owner really cares about spending $$$$ on gas? The answer is probably a resounding no.
So what is with GS350/GS460. The competition is not standing around either. Last time I check, MB has new V8 due next year (V6 is already out). BMW new L6 is out and new V8 is due shortly. M already has powerful V6 and V8. GS is a step behind already.
I have nothing against Toyota/Lexus. I still would buy one for my family needs (like my van). But I am not going to be like a homer and believe that the new GS is a drivers car, when it is not the case.
The new GS is a somewhat of a dissappointment to me given the fact that lexus proclaimed to be a 5 series fighter. But it simply underwhelms in fun factor.
I hope that the new IS would be a better driver car. The old one actually was a very good driver's car compared to the E46. I just hope that lexus does not screw up the IS.
I did drove GS430 for a while before getting the M45. It's just not a fun car to drive (although better than the W211). I am not the only one stating this. Pretty much everywhere you look, everyone is stating the same thing (except people on this forum accept the fact).
You said it best. Just not as much as 545i, M35/45. I have nothing against lexus/toyota. they do make great car with excellent quality. Not all of their cars are boring. But the GS is simply not as fun to drive as M and E60. If lexus seriously wanted to pick off BMW customers from BMW's grasp, it must do a better job than the current GS. The GS does an excellent job in beating the W211 senseless, but it missed the mark completely on the E60.
Modding their cars does not make this a BMW market audience. There is only so much you can do to modified the car. Both the M/E60 left factory with sportier design, and potential benefit to mod is better than GS.
Give you a best example. the E60 as active roll stablization, the M has active rear steer. Both no matter how much you can mod the GS, you simply don't have it.
I also don't understand the purpose of a performance hybrid. Why would a performance car owner would care about getting better gas mileage? Do you think a BMW M owner or AMG owner really cares about spending $$$$ on gas? The answer is probably a resounding no.
So what is with GS350/GS460. The competition is not standing around either. Last time I check, MB has new V8 due next year (V6 is already out). BMW new L6 is out and new V8 is due shortly. M already has powerful V6 and V8. GS is a step behind already.
I have nothing against Toyota/Lexus. I still would buy one for my family needs (like my van). But I am not going to be like a homer and believe that the new GS is a drivers car, when it is not the case.
The new GS is a somewhat of a dissappointment to me given the fact that lexus proclaimed to be a 5 series fighter. But it simply underwhelms in fun factor.
I hope that the new IS would be a better driver car. The old one actually was a very good driver's car compared to the E46. I just hope that lexus does not screw up the IS.
Gotcha, in all honesty, I feel that if Lexus really was serious, they would have somehow offered a manual, even if its just with the GS 300. That really would have gave them an advantage. You are correct and I agree, the car is not as sporty (and technically, I guess every carmaker does state "we chased the BMW_____, when we designed our ______").
05-17-05, 06:24 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by chiawei
I don't think they did a good job in imitating BMW than what Nissan did.
I did drove GS430 for a while before getting the M45. It's just not a fun car to drive (although better than the W211). I am not the only one stating this. Pretty much everywhere you look, everyone is stating the same thing (except people on this forum accept the fact).
I did drove GS430 for a while before getting the M45. It's just not a fun car to drive (although better than the W211). I am not the only one stating this. Pretty much everywhere you look, everyone is stating the same thing (except people on this forum accept the fact).
05-18-05, 06:18 PM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Why is it so hard for people to believe Lexus can make an interesting car? Looking around here, people are modding thier cars ALREADY and looking for modification parts to make is look/handle even better. Sounds like the BMW market to me.
05-18-05, 06:57 PM
#71
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
No one's doubting Lexus could do it, they just don't (yet). It should be available in an 'interesting' package without being modded, like most BMWs.
GS430 sport design
6sp manual trans
350-400 HP
low stance with 19 inch wheels with firm suspension setting
05-19-05, 01:25 AM
#72
1. Better steering response.
2. Better brake pedal response
3. Reduce body roll (some sort of active roll stablization).
4. Beefier stock brakes.
5. More efficient gear box and drive shaft.
Optional sports package with upgrade chassis, suspension as well.
2. Better brake pedal response
3. Reduce body roll (some sort of active roll stablization).
4. Beefier stock brakes.
5. More efficient gear box and drive shaft.
Optional sports package with upgrade chassis, suspension as well.
05-19-05, 05:50 AM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by chiawei
.
2. Better brake pedal response
.
4. Beefier stock brakes.
.
.
2. Better brake pedal response
.
4. Beefier stock brakes.
.
.
GS430 has 13 inch front brakes and they are very responsive
05-19-05, 06:04 AM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by adb3
These kind of discussions are so tiresome and borders on being immature. If a person is shopping this price range and car segment, you'd think that person would research very carefully before forking over the kind of money needed to purchase one of these babies. To be disappointed by the 3GS's interior or any other OEM aspect after the fact, I'm sorry I just don't understand. Makes me wonder about how that person makes decisions in other areas of their life.
And why do folks feel they have to engage in these, IMHO, childish exchanges as to which car is better. It usually boils down to personal preference anyway so to discuss ad infinitis the attributes or shortcomings of one make versus another is almost pointless. If a person on this board likes another car over a Lexus, so be it. And I don't have a problem with that person stating there case. But I'm curious why a person who doesn't like Lexus would stay or post on a board for Lexus ethusiasts. Are you trying to convince others to your preference in cars? If so, you're wasting your time. If not, then are you being just an agitator? Personally, I come on this board to get info about Lexus vehicles to improve my Lexus experience. I didn't come here to discuss the merits of one brand over another. I think it's more than obvious that I've already made a choice.
As almost numerous as people themselves are the reasons for which folks buy cars. That's why car magazines, try as they might, have little effect on what the mainstream buyer selects as his/her mode of transportation. Now granted, high-end buyers probably stay more informed by reading these magazines, but I think even these folks use them as just one of the many factors they weigh in buying a car. Case in point, with all the lauding about the new M by most magazines, you would think sales would be exploding. They are certainly outselling the old M's many times over, but the previous M's sales were so dismal, any success is significant. However, the M's still are not outselling BMW 5's, Merc E20's, Cadillac STS, or even 3GS. Just goes to show you that folks will purchase what they want, so to digress into discussions like this is worthless.
Just my 2 cents...carry on.
And why do folks feel they have to engage in these, IMHO, childish exchanges as to which car is better. It usually boils down to personal preference anyway so to discuss ad infinitis the attributes or shortcomings of one make versus another is almost pointless. If a person on this board likes another car over a Lexus, so be it. And I don't have a problem with that person stating there case. But I'm curious why a person who doesn't like Lexus would stay or post on a board for Lexus ethusiasts. Are you trying to convince others to your preference in cars? If so, you're wasting your time. If not, then are you being just an agitator? Personally, I come on this board to get info about Lexus vehicles to improve my Lexus experience. I didn't come here to discuss the merits of one brand over another. I think it's more than obvious that I've already made a choice.
As almost numerous as people themselves are the reasons for which folks buy cars. That's why car magazines, try as they might, have little effect on what the mainstream buyer selects as his/her mode of transportation. Now granted, high-end buyers probably stay more informed by reading these magazines, but I think even these folks use them as just one of the many factors they weigh in buying a car. Case in point, with all the lauding about the new M by most magazines, you would think sales would be exploding. They are certainly outselling the old M's many times over, but the previous M's sales were so dismal, any success is significant. However, the M's still are not outselling BMW 5's, Merc E20's, Cadillac STS, or even 3GS. Just goes to show you that folks will purchase what they want, so to digress into discussions like this is worthless.
Just my 2 cents...carry on.
welcome to CL
05-19-05, 07:45 AM
#75
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Why we don't drive BMW's- Typical review, and a must read
This review was found yesterday as I was researching the BMW 540, after certain people spent so much time drooling over it. You think we don't do our homework???? This is a must read for anyone even considering purchasing a "driver's car". Actually, quite the opposite. It doesn't appear that this Beemer owner is "driving" his car much at all!
HIS REVIEW
Tremendous sport sedan with some annoying glitches
by Marc from San Francisco, CA (1/19/05)
32 out of 34 people found this review helpful
Pros: Gorgeous styling, tremendous power, benchmark-setting luxury
Cons: Seemingly poor computer and electronic components
The 2005 545i is my first BMW, having defected from the Mercedes Benz camp.
I ordered my car with the Sport Package, Premium Sound Package, Winter Package, and a few other options. I am happy to say that I have no regrets in my choice to change automakers. This BMW is the epitome of luxury, comfort, and performance.
The leather sport seats are sumptuous and supportive. The wood dash is beautiful and stylish. The sound system is alone nearly worth the price of admission.
The baritone notes that emit from the engine compartment when I place the pedal to the proverbial metal are nothing short of classical. This car handles and performs like a bona fide sports sedan. It does no more and no less than exactly what the driver tells it to do.
The only objection I have so far is that the computer and electrical systems have not been perfected. 700 miles into the driving experience and my car can’t make it out of my driveway. The reason is that a software malfunction caused too much fuel to be injected into the engine, resulting in flooding. Imagine, not even one month after I triumphantly brought my prize home and I have to have it towed to the local BMW dealer. Not cool at all!
Now, barely 1000 miles old and I have to take it in because the “Service Engine” light is on. I just hope that this is not going to be a continuing trend. I would rather spend more time driving my car than talking about it with my service rep.
Did this guy really say he "has no regrets with his decision to change automakers?"
Wrong answer, try again. I'm sure the neighbors really laugh it up when they see that tow truck pull up to his house, and tow away a month old $ 60,000 dollar car. CLASSIC!
HIS REVIEW
Tremendous sport sedan with some annoying glitches
by Marc from San Francisco, CA (1/19/05)
32 out of 34 people found this review helpful
Pros: Gorgeous styling, tremendous power, benchmark-setting luxury
Cons: Seemingly poor computer and electronic components
The 2005 545i is my first BMW, having defected from the Mercedes Benz camp.
I ordered my car with the Sport Package, Premium Sound Package, Winter Package, and a few other options. I am happy to say that I have no regrets in my choice to change automakers. This BMW is the epitome of luxury, comfort, and performance.
The leather sport seats are sumptuous and supportive. The wood dash is beautiful and stylish. The sound system is alone nearly worth the price of admission.
The baritone notes that emit from the engine compartment when I place the pedal to the proverbial metal are nothing short of classical. This car handles and performs like a bona fide sports sedan. It does no more and no less than exactly what the driver tells it to do.
The only objection I have so far is that the computer and electrical systems have not been perfected. 700 miles into the driving experience and my car can’t make it out of my driveway. The reason is that a software malfunction caused too much fuel to be injected into the engine, resulting in flooding. Imagine, not even one month after I triumphantly brought my prize home and I have to have it towed to the local BMW dealer. Not cool at all!
Now, barely 1000 miles old and I have to take it in because the “Service Engine” light is on. I just hope that this is not going to be a continuing trend. I would rather spend more time driving my car than talking about it with my service rep.
Did this guy really say he "has no regrets with his decision to change automakers?"
Wrong answer, try again. I'm sure the neighbors really laugh it up when they see that tow truck pull up to his house, and tow away a month old $ 60,000 dollar car. CLASSIC!