Hello All. Nice board.

I've debating a new car for the past few months and have narrowed it down to 2 cars: 2005 RL or 2006 GS.

I was able to get a local dealer to agree to $46k on a brand new RL (yes amazing!). Drove the RL - and despite its Honda appearance rides and looks beautiful.

Of course I love the new GS styling and features. My delimma is that I do not necessarily like the GS300's nor the GS430's current engines and I THINK I will want the GS450h when it shows up in about 8 months - apparently at a price of around $55k (according to a local Lexus dealer).

So, I would appreciate yourinsights: an RL now for $46k - or - a GS Hybrid in 8 months for $55k .

TIA

 

Welcome aboard,and to help you on your decision i for one would wait on Gs460 (more hp somewhere 350hp to 400hp guessing here) somtime coming soon, and keep what you got or buy a used Lexus ,bimmer or mercede to keep you enterain until then.

 

there is a lot of speculation about the GS hybrid - you can read all about it on this forum, but i think the 55k is probably not a good estimate. if you don't care if it ends up being 60k or even 60k+, then yes, by all means, wait - it will likely be a fantastic car and shatter all kinds of perceptions about hybrids and performance. but if budget is a priority, then you may suffer sticker shock next spring , esp if you want to be one of the 1st to own the hybrid, and waiting might annoy you if you were hoping to get a "new" body style sooner rather than later.

 

Welcome to Clublexus. The RL is a fantastic car, maybe the best Acura sedan ever. Sales are slow as its a competative segment, even if the car is all new. The SH-AWD is a marvel but it will rarely be used since the wheels have to detect slip to engage. Otherwise the car drives probably 98% of the time 70% FWD and 30% RWD. The interior is very nice with tons of standard features. It has good acceleration and is a well thought out car.

You don't like the GS engines but I am not sure why. The GS 300 even with 245hp is only a tick behind the RL in acceleration. You get better fuel economy. THe RL may claime "300hp" but it doesn't drive like it.
The GS 430 engine has the same power rating but is much quicker than the RL. It has 325lbs torque compared to the RLs 260. Comparing V-8 to a V-6 even with equal ratings is apples to oranges.

Now onto the 450h. Lexus hybrids will come loaded only and we predict a price of 60k. A loaded GS 300 is 50k, add maybe 10k for the additional tech and b/c it is already a in-demand car. It also will feature the new 3.5 V-6, which is a more powerful V-6 than the 3.0. We pretty much have confirmed around 319hp.

The 450h will be an incredible beast not just will better fuel economy but with blistering acceleratin, especially at highway speeds when the instantanous torque speeds the car. It will make the RL seem like its in reverse.

The 450h will weigh more due to batteries and the hybrid tech but it will possibly be less than the AWD RL which is 4000lbs.

The 450h is now on the cover of Newsweek. Its the first luxury sedan hybrid, ushering a new wave of vehicles. For the money, it will provide a grin on your face EVERYTIME you think about pressing that START button in the GS. Also, it will be quite a conversation item, as people will be realling intrigued and curious not just b/c you have a beautiful GS, but b/c its a HYBRID. IMO, I do like that attention and that image and panache Lexus and now the hybrids bring.

The GS interior has been hailed as possible the finest built in the world. It makes you feel like its worth every penny of your hard earned money. Things fit flush, the titanium gauges are uber cool, the LED lights are thoughtfully placed everywhere, Lexus has proven itself to know luxury and what luxury cars are about.

Not to mention styling, just look at this car
(the orange wires are to let emergency crews know NOT to cut them)

THe RL while a nice looking car, its not ugly, is more for the very reserved person who doesn't warrent any attention and just wants a nice quality automobile at a good price.

 

Great write-up, SICKLEX. Which Newsweek are you referring to? Either I missed the issue or I haven't seen it yet. Just curious. Love the rims on that hybrid photo, btw.

I'm curious about the original poster's issues with the GS's engines. It'd be hard to imagine not wanting the GS430 over the RL, personally. I've driven the RL. It may have the HP numbers, but it's lacking torque and sounds strained when you push it. (Not to mention, the looks are rather uninspired at best.) If he's really interested in the hybrid, he could always do a short-term lease on a GS430, then swap it out on a hyrbid once the initial demand has tapered off.

I've driven the GS430 twice now and I have to tell you, it's garnering more and more of my attention. Originally, I was thinking of trading my SC on a BMW 650Ci in the fall (and still may), but my Lexus salesman is lobbying to get me in a GS430 instead. The temptation...

 

I think he meant US News & World Report, the GS 450h is on their cover.

As for the RL, it was a '10 best' pick because of good value, namely all these features combined in a moderately expensive car. It has Keyless Remote entry, available NAVI system with XM satellite radio service (free 1st year), and XM traffic which works with the NAVI system, plus Bose audio.

The GS' simple touchscreen interface, arguably easier to use over the RL's 'I-drive' ****, is included along with SmartAccess, NAVI system available, Mark Levinson audio, plus all the usual Lexus refinements such as ergonomic design, soft lighting that is responsive to the approaching driver, etc.

I will add though that the RL NAVI system offers some interesting features such as ZAGAT restaurant reviews, and a messaging system for receiving 'e-mails' from your dealer. With the Keyless Remote, the car can be programmed with 2 different user settings, each keyed to a different remote (seat position, radio stations, etc.) On the GS, there are 3 user settings for seat/wheel/mirrors, plus I believe up to 5 user settings for the radio stations, etc. These are not keyed to the remote, but rather can be activated by a simple button, eliminating the need for carrying a specific key.

Overall though, both cars are quite excellent, and you probably can't go wrong with either. Of course, being a Lexus fan, I far prefer the touchscreen, the sinuous interior styling, nearly perfect craftmanship, and the simple yet highly sophisticated approach the GS takes. Not to mention that a hybrid would be oh so cool!

 

Appreciate the clarification. Thanks.

 

[QUOTE=XZLR8]Great write-up, SICKLEX. Which Newsweek are you referring to? Either I missed the issue or I haven't seen it yet. Just curious. Love the rims on that hybrid photo, btw.

I'm curious about the original poster's issues with the GS's engines. It'd be hard to imagine not wanting the GS430 over the RL, personally. I've driven the RL. It may have the HP numbers, but it's lacking torque and sounds strained when you push it. (Not to mention, the looks are rather uninspired at best.) If he's really interested in the hybrid, he could always do a short-term lease on a GS430, then swap it out on a hyrbid once the initial demand has tapered off.

I've driven the GS430 twice now and I have to tell you, it's garnering more and more of my attention. Originally, I was thinking of trading my SC on a BMW 650Ci in the fall (and still may), but my Lexus Thanks enigma.


BTW, I just got my EVO and they have a report the GS 450h will do 0-62mph in 5.5 seconds. More juice for me to magazine race with The passing power on that car will be ridiculous.


Thanks for the compliment. Enigma thanks for the correction.
XZLR8, Clublexus Super-mod Genearch is going through the same issue (I'd love that issue ). He has a GS 430 on order but is still thinking of doing a 645..(650 will be here soon).

 

You can't go wrong with either car. Both are great cars. You can probrably get a base rwd GS300 a little cheaper then the RL but it will not have as many options like a navigation system, AWD, or as much power. GS300 AWD will be more expensive especially if you get the NAV and will not be as quick. The GS430 should be around a half second quicker or more then the RL but it will be significantly more expensive optioned similiar to the RL and still not have AWD. The RL is a little more sportier with an AWD system designed more for handling then all weather driving. The hybrid GS will most likely cost more then 55K. I would say 60-70 if it is going to be putting out more hp and performance then the 300hp GS430. All RLs come with navigation systems which are the best in the auto industry in my opinion. Don't expect the 300hp RL to pin you in your seat because it has alot of weight to pull and it is being channeled through a AWD system. As long as you don't expect neck snapping acceleration the power is fine. Looks are subjective as both are pretty good looking but don't blow you away. I think the GS is pretty good looking but I can not get over that rear end which is unattractive to me. I think the previous generation looks better outside but the new one has it beat in the interior. The RL is pretty good looking too with no angles I find dissapointing but it does not look as good in lighter colors like red, and white. Silver and Black look the best to me. I like the interior a little more in the RL but both have very nice interiors.

Since the new M35 and GS300 came out and undercut the 49-50K RL in price most Acura dealers are accepting 46 to stay competitive. You might even get them down another 1-2K if you wait but I wouldn't count on it. You are getting alot of car for 46 but you still need to test drive both cars and whatever suits you is what you should pick. I could not tell you about the hybrid GS because there are no definite specs or prices but expect to pay a significantly higher price then the RL and possibley GS430. Good luck. Maybe I might be leaning to the RL since you don't seem to like the engines in the new GS even though the GS430 is faster with more torque.

 

I had the same dilemna as you a few months ago....RL vs 3rd Gen GS.

I went with a GS300 AWD. I do NOT regret my decision one second, i love my new car!

 

Hey guys - I appreciate all the reponses. Especially you SICKLEX - thanks for taking the time for a very thorough write up.

To further claifiry my comments about my "dislike" for the engine ... it's not really a dislike ... but what I meant is that, knowing that better engines are around the corner - the new V6 in March 07 and the V8 after that - I think I would have buyer's remorse when they showed up. That's just my personal guess, and it may not necessarily be the case, but that uncertainty is the source of my delimma.

I've decided the 430 is out of the question for me, because I would much rather go with the 450h and would wait for it. If Lexus would have just waited to release the 300 in August with what I understand is the new 300hp V6 that will power the 350 in Japan this summer and the 450h worldwide next year, then I assure you I would not be having this delimma today. I would gladly pay $50k and be happy with a GS300/350 300hp V6. Othewise, if I bought the current 300 with 245hp, I think I would find myself feeling slightly inadequate everytime a new Avalon drove past. Heh. But SICKLEX, your argument on actual hp and torque has made me reconsider things.

As for the price of the 450h - Udel and others - I think you may be right. Yesterday, I called and spoke with 5 other Lexus dealers in disparate parts of the US and though they were all admitedly pretty much clueless about its price, and thereby gave wide ranges (one salesman even told me the 350 hybrid would be priced at $46k - I had to "explain" to him there would only be the 450h - and he still doubted me), they all seemed to settle at above a $60k price. The original salesman who gave me the $55k price was convinced that Lexus would price the hybrid at a 10% mark-up on the current 300, and not the current 430, because he claimed that's how Lexus priced the RXh. All the other dealers seemed to disagree with that. Also most, but not all, said the 450h would be an AWD. Again, there seems to be confusion about that as I've personally read in a couple of places the it would be RWD.

So, the update now is that I'm looking at an RL for $45k (the dealer went down another $1k), or GS450h at $60k+ in more like 10 months. What's killing my decision making process is lack of concrete information. I think I have no other choice but to wait until I hear more concrete evidence on the price, timeline and full features of the 450h. I'd appreciate any thoughts on when you guys think that may be.

 

I know what your talking about with the v-6 in the new GS. I stil don't understand why Toyota put such a powerful v-6 in the Avalon when it did not need all that power especially being fwd and not sport oriented and the potential buyer probrably cares more about fuel economy and control then high horsepower. Toyota then puts a smaller weaker engine in a car that should have higher horsepower being that it is rwd or awd and supposed to be sporty and competing with sportier expensive cars with much higher horsepower. It is probrably going to hurt resale on the GS300 when they put the 3.5 in it and will also irritate many that will feel they should have waited. If they chose the smaller engine because it would come to close to the v-8 they should have upped the horsepower on the v-8 since most of the competition has 315+ horsepower and the GS has had 300 since 1998.

If your dealer went down to 45 I think I would lean towards the RL because you can't get a GS300 equipted like an RL anywhere near that price. $15,000+ price difference between potential cars is alot of money so choosing between a RL and a GS450h is going to come between what you like better and if saving $15,000 is important to you or if you feel the GS450h is worth paying 15,000 more. I doubt the hybrid will have AWD since they could not fit an AWD system with the v-8 and those batteries take up a good deal or room. RL is a hell of a car at 45K. You might want to figure on hefty dealer markups for the hybrid GS too if it becomes highly desireable.

 

The reason for us getting the 300 engine than the 350 engine and the 430 to 460 is b/c the USA is Lexus biggest market and instead of going 7 years with no updates in the GS 300 (engine) and 3 years (no hp bump) in the GS 4, is to keep sales consistent and people interested.

BMW just DID IT for the 5 series. The car has been out 2 years now, the 530 gets a new engine with 30 more HP but with NO CHANGE in displacement, its still a 530. Just like how the GS 300 05-06 jumped 25hp with no change in displacement. The E 320 after 3 years is now the E350. It keeps people interested. BMW and Benz always update their engines.

Lexus will now do the same to keep customers coming.

Japan gets the 350 only as Lexus in Japan is an even bigger deal there, than it is here.

Your very welcome. Looking at our RX 400h owners here, they didn't pay any dealer markup, just the loaded RX 330 price plus Hybrid. A loaded RX is about 45k, so 50k is 5 more.

A loaded GS 300 now is 50k, 5k more is clearly 55k but I won't say 60k is out of reach. The RL, dealers are dealing, looking around, people are getting them for 45k no questions asked. But IMO, if your gonna be worried about buying a GS now b/c of what the GS will offer in the future, you might as well not get the RL, since there is not a whisper of any updates except different colors and other minor trim. There are rumors of a lower priced FWD only model coming at around 40k to help push up sales.

It is tough, we are lucky we have this much info. I am sure the wait for the GS 450h will be well worth it though.

 

AGREED!

 

[QUOTE=1SICKLEX]The reason for us getting the 300 engine than the 350 engine and the 430 to 460 is b/c the USA is Lexus biggest market and instead of going 7 years with no updates in the GS 300 (engine) and 3 years (no hp bump) in the GS 4, is to keep sales consistent and people interested.

BMW just DID IT for the 5 series. The car has been out 2 years now, the 530 gets a new engine with 30 more HP but with NO CHANGE in displacement, its still a 530. Just like how the GS 300 05-06 jumped 25hp with no change in displacement. The E 320 after 3 years is now the E350. It keeps people interested. BMW and Benz always update their engines.

Lexus will now do the same to keep customers coming.

Japan gets the 350 only as Lexus in Japan is an even bigger deal there, than it is here.
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You could say the same about using the 245hp 3 liter in the Avalon and then having room to update the engine to 245+ and using a 3.5liter
The GS should have received the 3.5 in the first place because it is a more prestigeous car competing with more performance oriented cars. Since the IS is confirmed at 310hp then Lexus could raise the v-6 GS hp up 30hp to 310 in a few years. The 3 liter 245hp engine would be perfect for the Camry and Avalon since both are fwd and focus on comfort not sport and that is around what the competition in using. The larger more powerful 3.5 should have been used in the heavier sportier more expensive GS especially since it is available in awd in the first place in my opinion.
There is a rumor of the RL getting a sportier version with more hp and a few more options that are available in japan like rear view camera, night vision, AC seats, massaging seats, etc in the future but nothing is certain.