R&T speculates 400 HP for the 460
06-15-05, 08:12 AM
#31
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GS460 Power
If you want to make a reasonable power estimates for the GS460, just look to the new V6 in the 300 for a point of reference. At 245hp @6200 & 230lb-ft @ 3600, you get a specific output of 81.7hp & 76.7lb-ft per liter. Assuming the V8 gets direct injection & is tuned similarly, you could calculate figures of about 376hp & 353lb-ft at similar engine speeds. I doubt the torque figure will be much higher, since 77-78lb-ft per liter seems to be about the current limit at moderate engine speeds (Audi's new DI V6 is in that range). It's also unlikely that the horsepower number will exceed 376hp by much, as this would likely require sacrificing low-end torque, something that I doubt Lexus wants to do. I would bet that chances are greater that they might sacrifice a few hp at the top end in order to bolster low-end torque. My guess would be figures in the range of 360 for both hp & tq, competitive with BMW's new 4.8 liter, and numbers I'd be happy with as long as they make VDIM defeatable.
06-15-05, 01:42 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by kreilly
If you want to make a reasonable power estimates for the GS460, just look to the new V6 in the 300 for a point of reference. At 245hp @6200 & 230lb-ft @ 3600, you get a specific output of 81.7hp & 76.7lb-ft per liter. Assuming the V8 gets direct injection & is tuned similarly, you could calculate figures of about 376hp & 353lb-ft at similar engine speeds. I doubt the torque figure will be much higher, since 77-78lb-ft per liter seems to be about the current limit at moderate engine speeds (Audi's new DI V6 is in that range). It's also unlikely that the horsepower number will exceed 376hp by much, as this would likely require sacrificing low-end torque, something that I doubt Lexus wants to do. I would bet that chances are greater that they might sacrifice a few hp at the top end in order to bolster low-end torque. My guess would be figures in the range of 360 for both hp & tq, competitive with BMW's new 4.8 liter, and numbers I'd be happy with as long as they make VDIM defeatable.
06-15-05, 02:21 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by kreilly
If you want to make a reasonable power estimates for the GS460, just look to the new V6 in the 300 for a point of reference. At 245hp @6200 & 230lb-ft @ 3600, you get a specific output of 81.7hp & 76.7lb-ft per liter. Assuming the V8 gets direct injection & is tuned similarly, you could calculate figures of about 376hp & 353lb-ft at similar engine speeds. I doubt the torque figure will be much higher, since 77-78lb-ft per liter seems to be about the current limit at moderate engine speeds (Audi's new DI V6 is in that range). It's also unlikely that the horsepower number will exceed 376hp by much, as this would likely require sacrificing low-end torque, something that I doubt Lexus wants to do. I would bet that chances are greater that they might sacrifice a few hp at the top end in order to bolster low-end torque. My guess would be figures in the range of 360 for both hp & tq, competitive with BMW's new 4.8 liter, and numbers I'd be happy with as long as they make VDIM defeatable.
06-16-05, 11:32 AM
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Is the 460 going to be the only engine or are they going to keep the 430 too? Are there any rumors of their beeing another class of cars. Like what bmw has with the m series or mercedez has with the 55 series? Is this what the 460 is supposed to be?
06-16-05, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by XeroK00L
I don't really think one can make a meaningful/reasonable estimate of a V-8's power from a V-6. Those power figures are only linear to the displacement when you're talking about engines of the same type, with the same set of power management technologies. A V-8 has distinct characteristics in power delivery that's different from those of a V-6. It'll be more of a coincidence if your estimate does come true IMO.
Just for an exercise, pick some engines from other cars in this class & check their specific outputs. For example, BMW's new V8 (which is also oversquare) runs 75hp & 75lb-ft per liter, slightly less than the Lexus V6 I am using for a reference, but without DI it runs a lower (10.5) compression ratio. But in the end, the only way to be sure is to just wait & see!
06-16-05, 05:18 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by djsaad1
Is the 460 going to be the only engine or are they going to keep the 430 too? Are there any rumors of their beeing another class of cars. Like what bmw has with the m series or mercedez has with the 55 series? Is this what the 460 is supposed to be?
The 350 replaces the 300, the 460 replaces the 430 and the 450 is the hybrid model.
06-20-05, 02:00 PM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
We wish the 460 motor would be 400/400
I think the car magazines should leave the speculation to the Pros here at Club Lexus. I have been offline and missed this enjoyable thread. The estimates made in the thread are on target. I don't have any further information available to me yet but when I do you'll know. I am among the skeptics that doubt we will see 400hp and 400 ft/lbs out of the straight 4.6 V8. The car magazine hacks are still unused to hybrids and just like to make sweeping statements of power output without any factual information to draw from. The new V8 will have the newest technology of direct injection and variable intake and exhaust timing and the emissions will undoubtably qualify for ULEV-II. When the 4.6 is mated with an electric motor generator or two it will seem like a V-12 but have better fuel efficiency than todays 4.3 has. That is progress...
As for the naysayers of VDIM, You can turn off the traction control if you like and burn all of the rubber you feel like but it won't help you get out of the way of the truck bearing down on you. With TRAC on you may have a Nanny to admonish your behavior yet you will be able to drive more aggressively and safely then when you had her silenced. A few weeks back I was driving back to the dealership in a light rain in an IS300. As an experiment I turned the TRAC off. As I turned onto RT 355 I passed some slower traffic in the right hand lane and felt the IS300 gather power and start to break traction with a little forshadowing quiver. The next few seconds were spent swinging wildly and correcting until I felt the world passing by backwards and finally I ground the rear wheel against the high curb and bounced back into the center lane facing forwards again. With VDIM this would not have occured. This foolish experiment proves that computers and VDIM can think and react faster then our hands, feet and instincts are able to at least in my case. Looknow12 has driven the GS430's VDIM and he knows what an asset it is. The magazine hacks must need to unleash their testosterone on the impressionable masses and in this case are doing a disservice....VDIM rules.
As for the naysayers of VDIM, You can turn off the traction control if you like and burn all of the rubber you feel like but it won't help you get out of the way of the truck bearing down on you. With TRAC on you may have a Nanny to admonish your behavior yet you will be able to drive more aggressively and safely then when you had her silenced. A few weeks back I was driving back to the dealership in a light rain in an IS300. As an experiment I turned the TRAC off. As I turned onto RT 355 I passed some slower traffic in the right hand lane and felt the IS300 gather power and start to break traction with a little forshadowing quiver. The next few seconds were spent swinging wildly and correcting until I felt the world passing by backwards and finally I ground the rear wheel against the high curb and bounced back into the center lane facing forwards again. With VDIM this would not have occured. This foolish experiment proves that computers and VDIM can think and react faster then our hands, feet and instincts are able to at least in my case. Looknow12 has driven the GS430's VDIM and he knows what an asset it is. The magazine hacks must need to unleash their testosterone on the impressionable masses and in this case are doing a disservice....VDIM rules.
06-21-05, 03:27 AM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by Rockville
I think the car magazines should leave the speculation to the Pros here at Club Lexus. I have been offline and missed this enjoyable thread. The estimates made in the thread are on target. I don't have any further information available to me yet but when I do you'll know. I am among the skeptics that doubt we will see 400hp and 400 ft/lbs out of the straight 4.6 V8. The car magazine hacks are still unused to hybrids and just like to make sweeping statements of power output without any factual information to draw from. The new V8 will have the newest technology of direct injection and variable intake and exhaust timing and the emissions will undoubtably qualify for ULEV-II. When the 4.6 is mated with an electric motor generator or two it will seem like a V-12 but have better fuel efficiency than todays 4.3 has. That is progress...
As for the naysayers of VDIM, You can turn off the traction control if you like and burn all of the rubber you feel like but it won't help you get out of the way of the truck bearing down on you. With TRAC on you may have a Nanny to admonish your behavior yet you will be able to drive more aggressively and safely then when you had her silenced. A few weeks back I was driving back to the dealership in a light rain in an IS300. As an experiment I turned the TRAC off. As I turned onto RT 355 I passed some slower traffic in the right hand lane and felt the IS300 gather power and start to break traction with a little forshadowing quiver. The next few seconds were spent swinging wildly and correcting until I felt the world passing by backwards and finally I ground the rear wheel against the high curb and bounced back into the center lane facing forwards again. With VDIM this would not have occured. This foolish experiment proves that computers and VDIM can think and react faster then our hands, feet and instincts are able to at least in my case. Looknow12 has driven the GS430's VDIM and he knows what an asset it is. The magazine hacks must need to unleash their testosterone on the impressionable masses and in this case are doing a disservice....VDIM rules.
As for the naysayers of VDIM, You can turn off the traction control if you like and burn all of the rubber you feel like but it won't help you get out of the way of the truck bearing down on you. With TRAC on you may have a Nanny to admonish your behavior yet you will be able to drive more aggressively and safely then when you had her silenced. A few weeks back I was driving back to the dealership in a light rain in an IS300. As an experiment I turned the TRAC off. As I turned onto RT 355 I passed some slower traffic in the right hand lane and felt the IS300 gather power and start to break traction with a little forshadowing quiver. The next few seconds were spent swinging wildly and correcting until I felt the world passing by backwards and finally I ground the rear wheel against the high curb and bounced back into the center lane facing forwards again. With VDIM this would not have occured. This foolish experiment proves that computers and VDIM can think and react faster then our hands, feet and instincts are able to at least in my case. Looknow12 has driven the GS430's VDIM and he knows what an asset it is. The magazine hacks must need to unleash their testosterone on the impressionable masses and in this case are doing a disservice....VDIM rules.
Yesterday I was driving home (Upper Shad Rd) and I took a hard hair pin, off camber (about 100 degree in 30ft) at about 40mph. I made it through this turn with zero flaws, no sliding, and was aimed properly upon my exit. I looked over at the guages and noticed a blinking of the VDIM system/traction light. I never would have guessed this was going on. The GS obviously was helping me through this turn and I didn't even realize it. There was no power loss, no feeling of misdirected momentum or vehicle lean during the turn. If the VDIM was not there I would have skidded off the road and into a guard rail that lines this sharp turn. Enough said.
Regarding the 4.6 V8 mated to an electric motor, did you let out news? I thought the GS450 hybrid was to be mated to a V6 3.5 liter engine. Are you saying that they will offer V8 hybrids in the forseeable future? What first? The LS?
Last edited by looknow12; 06-21-05 at 06:22 AM. Reason: Not a rock, a guard rail
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2Gen GS430 / 400/ 300 Classifieds (98-05)
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