rogers2

Ok back on topic.
Lexus definitely needs to put a new engine in the GS300 ASAP. It's a nice car but for its segments it's needs more hp. People complain about the RL sales all the time here but the RL doesn't even offer a V8 version it's sales should be lower. How the hell do you compare the RL sales to the BMW 5series & E series & GS series sales when they offer more than one version? Yes it's Honda's fault the RL is selling ok but not great. They should have offered a V8 version. Silly Honda.
AJL0365 made a statement earlier that Infiniti is a wanna-be Lexus. Please get real every Infiniti in its segment outperform it Lexus counterpart in Handling or Acceleration. Sounds like Infiniti is a wanna-be BMW. Lexus could have shocks us with the new GS but they didn't. They say they were offering a better sport sedan well they didn't in my opinion. Yes the car is still reliable & customer service is still great but they didn't up the hp or driver connection any. I don't get it how you make a statement to challenge BMW and don't up the hp on both models? Like I said perviously they should aim for MB not BMW.
But the interior quality is too died far!!

LexFather

Thing is, even though the GS 300 may not do 0-60 in 3 seconds flat and do the skidpad at 1G, the car is outselling the M 35/45 by itself. I don't think ANYONE can be a serious THREAT to BMW UNLESS they offer a MANUAL. Otherwise, they are ALL slushboxes. No one in this segment drives the cars like the magazines do. NO ONE. Looking around the forums of every brand, the people most likely to go to the track or drive the car like it should are the BMW forums and here. . Otherwise, everyone is magazine racing. So whats the point? To argue that your car did XX time in Motor Trend or to drive the car like they do in Motor Trend? Because there are cars where people drive like they do in Motor Trend, its just rare, super rare in this segment.

Does the GS 300 need more hp? I don't think I've ever read a magazine review where they wouldn't mind more power. Clearly consumers think it has enough power.

When the GS 350 arrives, it will have what, 306hp, it may still lose comparisons.

Finally as someone pointed out, when the GS 450h arrives, NO ONE has an answer to this car. This is a PROGRESSIVE car, it is the FUTURE. Yes, doing the 1/4 mile in 12 seconds is fun to read but again, most people drive the cars to and from work and around the town. The GS 45h will give V-8 power with I-4 gas mileage and a tax credit, while offereing the same looks and the same blend of sport/luxury as the GS.

That, IMO, is where we need to be going. I love to read how fast this segment goes and yes, its incredible they can hang with sports cars, simply incredible but traffic in America is worse than ever, gas is higher than ever, what is the point?

In the end, the GS is selling. This means profits for Lexus and happy dealers, which in turn, keeps customers happy.

And rogers, I am just rambling, this is not directed to you

LexFather

And one thing I am interested in is lighter cars. One thing that impresses me about the new GS and the new 5 series, they are very light. This is true engineering, even with more electronic do dads and even though the cars are bigger, weight is being saved. We all know weight is a cars biggest enemy.

Even sports cars today, are too damn heavy. That is why they got to add more and more power. Even exotics, with carbon fiber and aluminum weight like pigs. Its ridiculous. Where is the true progress? We should be trying to add more power, economy and hold, deduct weight. Not just add more power, to hell with fuel economy and to hell with weight? How is that progressive thinking?

mmarshall

[QUOTE=DrewSRX]This is how the luxury sedans now rank, according to Consumer Reports:

1. Infiniti M35x
2. Mercedes-Benz E320
3. BMW 530i
4. Audi A6 3.2 Quattro
5. Cadillac STS V6
6. Acura RL
7. Jaguar S-Type 4.2
8. Lexus GS300 AWD
9. Volvo S80 T6

QUOTE]

If this is the case, then the E320 must have better reliability than other M-B products. CR will not even put a vehicle on its recommended list, much less the best overall, unless it has at least an average reliability record........ by CR's own reliability data base, not someone slse's.

rogers2

1SICKLEX I guess I was a little disappointing after all the hype I heard here that the new GS was suppose to knock the 5 series out the box. At this point I guess I’m not too interest in hybrid vehicles b/c our government is still giving tax cuts to the oil companies and until GM & Ford make more hybrid vehicles it’s always going to be that way. Plus the extra cost of the hybrid, you don’t receive any real benefit vs. the non hybrid vehicle until 3 years of ownership. **** around that time I’ll probaly be looking for another hybrid.

jrock65

As much as Lexus afionados say that power doesn't really matter, I would beg to differ and say that it DOES matter. There are other aspects of a car that are important, sure, but these are luxury cars, and part of luxury is feeling that extra bit of oomph when you step on the pedal.

Is the power in the GS300 enough for people's "needs"? Sure. But this class isn't about need. It's about the little extras. Hey, no one "needs" the fancy ML sound system, the gorgeous profile of the GS, voice command NAV, extra soft leather. But it's nice to have them. Just like it's nice to have some extra oomph. And I'm not talking about beating boy-racers at the stoplight. The extra power can be felt in normal driving situations.

Midsize V6 family sedans can do 90% of the things that cars in this class do, at 50% of the cost. Buyer's in this class, after all, are paying that premium for the little extras. And more oomph is a "little extra". No matter how people try to justify it, the GS300 is lacking in that extra oomph, compared to the others in this class.

Personally, my main gripes with GS300 are the lack of headroom, horrendous trunk opening, overboosted steering, and a somewhat stark interior. Power is not that big a problem with it, but it'd be nice to have some more of it.

I'm sure that some people here disagree, so let me just say that it's my opinion.

Also, the GS350 will make power concerns moot anyway.

Xenthar

I think your very wrong here...especially after seeing july sales. I can only see the number increasing as more people are seeing the M on the streets. Who knows...maybe it could surpass GS sales at some point. That would be interesting ay?

flipside909

Works the same way for all vehicle models...not just Inifniti. The more people see what they like, the more they will buy it. Market demand.

LexFather

It summer, if you noticed, EVERYONE, increased sales. Cars sell more in the summer as the weather is better and people go buy, buy, buy.
I stick to what I said, the M has fared very well in comparisons and it hasn't helped sales. This maybe Infiniti's fault, as Ive seen hardly any marketing for the car since its debut?

Didn't they say they were going to have all these ads at Times Square in NY and they were enlisting the help of Chanel and other brands for marketing help? Were they just empty promise press releases???


And you make good points. Thing is, let us not forget WHY Lexus is wating to release the bigger engines. Your well aware of the reason, to keep consumers interesed after the car has been on the market. Infiniti did it with the G35, offering the 298hp with the manual, to keep people interested. BMW and Benz are doing it now, new 3.0 and 3. 5liter engines, to keep people interested mid-cycle.

Rogers, I am with you. I honestly think MANY are with you, especially since we know the GS 460 and GS 350 are around the corner. In all honestly, I don't expect anyone to really knock BMW off the top without a stick. For instance, the G35 was getting good reviews with the auto but when the stick came, that is when it really became a car to stick it to the 3.

Lexus being Lexus, will always be about refinement in the end, with sport never being the #1 total priority. Its not the companies way. Infintii haven woken up, is offering sportier cars and the SUV FX, for those that want to go that route.

LexFather

I am going to have to test the GS 300 and GS 300 AWD. And what I'll do I'll drive a 2GS 300 the dealer has to really see what these reviweres are talking about. Fair?

Variance

I don't get how you can say winning comparisons hasn't helped M sales when it's impossible to determine what the sales would be without them.

Also, No offense, but you must not be looking very hard for the ads. I've seen plenty of M ads on TV and in magazines.

LexFather

U know I was going to make this giant post with facts and data but I could come to your house and hand deliver the document and it wouldn't matter.

Let me quit this childishness and tie up some loose ends with Lexfest before Dave kills me.

www.lexfest.net

jrock65

I see equal numbers of GS, M, and RL ads. What I DON'T see that much of are A6 ads.

Anyways, I haven't seen confirmation with regards to upgrades in the VQ and VK engines, but I gotta believe that more powerful engines are coming from Nissan, seeing as how this company is obsessed with placing at the top in the power game.

There was an unsubstantiated rumor of a 330hp 3.8L VQ for the next Skyline sedan in Japan (G40 in the U.S.?). And with the 4.6L, 4.8L, and 5.4L V8 engines coming from Lexus, BMW, and MB respectively, I'm sure Infiniti is looking to bore out its 4.5L VK V8 to something like 4.8L or 5.0L (M50?) sometime within the next couple of years.

AlwaysLate

I was just responding to 1SICKLEX's post wondering why he wen't off topic commenting on the TSX and answered his question regarding the IS. Thanks for the nice comments though.

(funny, I feel like I'm double posting this message).

Variance

Hey, if you have the facts to back up your claims, I don't have a problem. Otherwise, it's just conjecture.

I'll let this thread get back on topic now so it doesn't get locked. I'll have to wait till I get my CR in the mail to see exactly what they said.