Sam Khoury

Thanks, that's good to know. IRamsey gave me my first service free or something like that since I got my car from them. I live in Queens so that's a little far to get a free service. Since they aren't that good maybe I'll just skip the trip and take to Manhattan Infiniti on my way to work. Have you ever dealt with them? Sorry to hijack this thread with this discussion.

LexFather

First off, welcome to Clublexus. You have chosen 2 great final picks. Sad to hear about the Infiniti service but that is why there is competition, so you can pick OTHERS when they fudge up.

Now onto the RL and GS debate. You can search under this forum and see we have had this discussion before. We don't have a breakdown of sales of GS AWD only vs RL sales. Clearly, the RL is selling poor for a brand new model and it just hasn't been recieved well by the public. The general public does not perceive Acura a true premium brand, thus selling it at 50,000 dollars makes people cringe.

Its a good car. SH-AWD is clearly more advanced than any AWD system out there short of a EvO MR or 400MQ but will you TRULY drive it to its potential?

I doubt it. Most luxury car owners don't. that is a fact. the RL is also pretty loaded. its well built, even if its built off a global shared platform with Accords etc. It does have 300hp on paper, which sounds GREAT to tell people but the peak power is very high in the rev range, torque is barely better than the GS 300 AWD, so its barely quicker than the GS 300 AWD, which has 55 less hp.

Outside of it being an expensive Acura, the biggest selling issue might be the styling. Sure, some like the bland, Accord like styling, as they sell over 1,000 a month but is that what YOU want? Maybe you don't want to attract any attention, the RL is perfect.

One final thought, Acura service is not much of a notch above Hondas. looking at how you value dealer service,well, this is CLEARLY, a Lexus speciality, as the LEADER in customer satisfaction.

So with the GS 300 AWD purchase, you have the peace of mind, that the dealer will try their best to please you. B/C this is THEIR advantage and they must keep it. From brand new loaners, to top of the line accomodations, to them going out of their way for you, name it, they will make it happen.

Isn't that how it SHOULD be, when you own a luxury car? Its like shopping at Nordstrom when or Bloomingdales when your a card holder and want a personal shopper.

The GS 300 is crafted in TAHARA, JAPAN, the finest automotive plant in the world. No one is close, except the NEXT Lexus plant.

On top of that, the GS is the first Lexus with the NEW distinct design Language, L-Finesse. It was DESIGNED and MADE to be a Lexus, period. Sit the 2 cars side by side and the detailing of the GS is just amazing compared to the RL (and Fuga).

It is not a Honda Legend rebadged as a RL, or a Nissan Fuga rebadged as an Infinti.

Also, the GS is a WORLD car. It may not be the fastest or quickest but it has been VERY well recieved worldwide. Some of the comments from Euro tests are "its the finest car ever built". Fit and Finish is superb. The quality of materials are top notch. Real wood and I would have to sit down and talk to you to describe the philosophy and detailing about the GS.

Just look at the gauges, they are incredible. You LOOK at the gauges most besides looking out hte window. The RL has nice gauges, copying Lexus with the Electrolumincent look. The Inifniit gauges are horrible, not worthy of a car costing this much.

You have a brand new 6 speed auto, instead of a 5-speed (something the LAST GS had).
The engine is not some brute or shared with over 1 million cars a year. Its a highly technical piece with DUAL VVTi. Thus the car accelerates on par with cars with MORE power and it gets MUCH better fuel economy.
Lexus is a PROGRESSIVE company. They are not in the middle of finding itself. they are not offering value products with value build quality. Lexus is continuing its PASSIONATE PURSUIT of PERFECTION. Lexus is not about the most this and that. They are about the OVERALL picture.

Thus the GS may not be perfect, but its as close as you can get

mmarshall

Well, chief...we can advise you all day (and night ) with our recommendations, but in the end it is your money and you will have to decide which car you like more....and which one is more worth what it costs. Personally, I like the GS300AWD's quality and refinement in spite of the TL's bigger engine, more power, and the sophisticated SH AWD system. Mike (1SICKLEX) brought up some good points...there isn't a whole lot I can add.

Good luck. Get back with us and let us know what you decide. We'll give you the break-in rules if the dealer doesn't.

...... one word of note: don't let them sell you on a whole bunch of expensive aftermarket things in the buisness office unless you really want them.....things like rustproofing, undercoating, polyglycoat paint seal, etc....... Usually they are just a waste of money.

....and a final word of note: you are welcome at CL no matter what vehicle you decide to buy and drive. Even if you don't own a Lexus we have a fabulous CAR CHAT forum where we do nothing but talk CARS around the clock.....ALL vehicles, old and new, regardless of make. On CAR CHAT we live, beathe, eat, and sleep cars.

jrock65

Between the RL and the GS300 AWD, I'd take the RL.

Both cars have similar features, both equally nice interiors of similar size, and I think the reliability will be up there for both. But the RL is faster, handles better, and has a better navigation system. The GS300 AWD has some shortcomings here and there (i.e. the small *** trunk opening). There is a reason why both Edmunds and Consumer Reports (both "practicality" oriented publications) ranked the GS300 AWD dead last in their comparos.

The RL is a Legend in Japan. That wouldn't really bother me, and I don't think it matters to the vast majority of people. Few really cared that the GS was an Aristo until recently, and few people care that the current LS is a Celsior and that the ES is a Windom. Apparently, the Acura brand will be introduced in Japan in a couple of years but few in the US will care about that and won't make the RL a better or worse car. But if you do care what the car is called in Japan, you should go for the GS.

Also, isn't the RL really cheap? I read that quite a few people got it for about $41,000. Maybe it's different in your area.

LexFather

Jrock, a big difference. Lexus was a Lexus everywhere BUT Japan. They were built to be a Lexus, just rebadged in Japan only. With this in mind, Lexus knows how much it has to lose by building a subpar product or a failure. They also have their EYES ON THE GERMANS and continue to move upward and more competative.
With Acura and Infiniti, its the other way around. They are built as Hondas and Nissans and then rebadged as Acuras and Infinitis (and not in Europe and just now in some other countries).

And even though that fact won't affect many buyers decisions, it shows the HUGE philosophical difference in the companies, the Lexus way and the other Japanese brands way. Clearly Lexus is the Japanese luxury brand leader, its not even close. So CLEARLY, Lexus knows what they are doing in this market in America. They are finally learning in Europe, with a diesal IS coming.

On PAPER, the RL and M35 AWD give very good arguements, more HP, great AWD systems, and mostly equivilent features. And when all the cars have similar features, the GS 300 AWD is the most expensive, so the other 2 are cheaper as well. And you show that magazines have been pretty underwhelmed with the GS 300 AWD, there is nothing wrong with the car but those idiots care more about peak HP, slalom times, and how the car handles in the curves, where 99% of the owners of ANY of these cars won't be driving.

While the Lexus, behind them in those performance numbers, outsells them, with top quality and the IMAGE most people in this price range command.

Again, the BIGGEST selling factor with ANY of these cars in this segment is IMAGE. that is why BMW continues to sell 184hp 525s MORE than 300hp RLs. Lexus has it out the Japense brands, the others don't. Its not just Acura and Infiniti, Audi in America has NO MOJO either, thus even with better products and a better A6 than EVER, they lag behind in sales. The A6 is also cheaper than BMW and Benz, the car is beautiful, it has a quality interior, they have power but sell in the bottom with the RL.


And I don't want ANYONE to even argue that is childish or out of place b/c if that WAS NOT true, we would ALL be driving Corollas and Civics.

Bottom line, for the first time, THERE IS NO BAD, Japanese competiton. Instead of it being Lexus fighting BMW and Benz and Acura and Infintii selling laughable products, now all the Japanese brands sell solid machinary in its class.


And for anyone owning any of these cars, its a beautiful thing

jlin101

I'd go for the RL if you can get one in the low 40's. It's made in Japan, and is Honda's flagship. The styling is a little bland from some angles, but it also has nice details when you look up close.

LS4fun

I also struggled between the RL and the GS. Obviously i went with the GS300 AWD and have no regret on my decision. I love my car.

jarrett

I would definetly buy the Acura RL, you simply get more for your money, and the car is reliable too. A better AWD system than lexus, and the onstar system, take a look at the 2005 AWD luxury sport car comparison test and see who won.

jrock65

Few buyers of these cars care or even know what it's called in Japan or anywhere else. It's not really a factor when deciding now, and it'll be even less of an issue when they launch Infiniti and Acura in Japan in a couple years. The G35, M45 and FX are badged as Infiniti in most countries where these cars are sold... U.S., Canada, Middle East, Taiwan, Korea. Only in Japan are they Skylines and Fugas. And they plan to launch soon in China, Russia, Ukraine, UK and Germany.

Anyways, bearbrick, it's evident from your negative reaction to the Infiniti dealer that dealership experience is important to you. How do the Acura and Lexus dealerships in your area compare?

SamIam

I currently drive a 97 Audi A8. Love the car, hate the maintenance, the customer service, and the constant little things that always need fixed, not to mention the big things, like a tranny at 52K miles.

My father in law has offered me his 2006 GS300 AWD, loaded, for $40K. By the way, he only has 800 miles on it. He drives his GX all the time, so he decided to sell the GS.

Cheaper than the RL or the M35X, what would you do?

SamIam

choo.choo

Have you considered the AWD BMW 525xi or 530xi? You can get a decently equiped one for about the price of the AWD GS300?

I'm a first time poster and multi-week lurker on this and the BMW boards. On any given day I will flip flop b/w the 5 series or the GS300. I'll probably go with the Bimmer because of the way it drives (it goes precisely where you want it to go at almost any speed). The GS has more features (automatic, homelink, leather, heated seats) but a much smaller trunk. The Bimmer has a great AWD -- X drive and mediocre nagivation system (I-Drive) plus a little more shoulder room in the back (for my 3 kids).

INHOCJP

Got to love the family discount...$40k is a great price for the car...but see if he is willing to knock off a couple grand

bearbrick

wow 1sicklex, nice write-up. You don't work for Toyota/Lexus do you? (j/k) I went with the GS300 AWD. I was kinda skeptical about buying this because of the release of the GS350, but I had to replace the G quick. Got the glacier color, but I'm also looking at the flint mica with the grey leather. Both of them look nice, but my deposit is down on the glacier color. Dealer says I can change the color if I want.

This was a very hard decision to make. I got it down to want the Acura RL with the bodykit and etc., but in the end, it came down to my family members wanting the GS.

Glacier or Flint Mica? Any thoughts?

A few gripes about the GS: I hate how the car has little headroom. I am 6' 1" and my head touches the ceiling. If I lower the seat all the way, I have about 2" of space. My Maxima has more headroom.
Brakes are too grabby and the pedal feels to stiff. The trunk access is SO small. We'll see about praises/complaints after I take delivery.

Overall, I am happy with the purchase I guess. We'll see if Lexus service is what you guys hype it up to be. World class? We'll see.

Thanks for your help guys. Very informative and hopefully I made the right decision.

Thanks,
bearbrick

bearbrick

Wow, I would go for that.

bearbrick

I was also considering the 530xi. Upon test-driving one, I saw why it was rated with having the best handling etc. But $54K with them knocking off only a couple thousand didn't justify it for me. Plus a family friend owns a BMW and hates it because of its reliability. Tried out the i-Drive, not as bad as people say, but it does get frustrating.

I also hate how the options are SO expensive. The bimmer is a great car, but I thought I'd take reliability over drivability any day because of my horrible experience with the G.